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Old 10-17-2006, 07:09 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjohnston_25
So according to the sales person we can tow with the Odyssey.
This has to be the single most dangerous statement that is posted around here and I am sure, on other forums too.

Some sales folks would sell their own parents to make a sale. I would take most sales people's statements with a grain of salt and do my own research as you seem to be doing now Judy.

In the end, you can take what a commisioned sales person says, who clearly has an incentive for you to buy something, or you can take the advise of folks here, who have no reason to B.S. you. All comments here to date are right on the money. Just don't do it.
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Old 10-17-2006, 07:28 AM   #16
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A front wheel drive vehicle is NOT a safe tow vehicle for any load over 1000#, even with 10,000 horse power, PERIOD!
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Old 10-17-2006, 07:46 AM   #17
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Whether it fits into the towing capacity by 100# or so isn't the real issue. In my opinion the question is: How are you at white knuckle driving? If you want to be on the edge of your seat whenever you see another large vehicle approaching or have a steep uphill or downhill grade or God forbid have to make a sudden stop or swerve to avoid a deer, great. I for one would rather have a stable towing platform that has a smooth ride and enough weight to SAFELY get me to my destination and back with as little stress as possible.
Remember those old Airstream ads where the guy was pulling a Bambi with his bicycle? Yup it could be done, but I wouldn't recomend it on the highway.

Please don't do it. For your safety and those on the road with you.

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Old 10-17-2006, 09:20 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjohnston_25
Hi everyone

Thanks for the replys. We went to the RV Show in California yesterday and Was looking at the Bambi CCD 16' and the specifications read:UBW 2825lbs and the GVWR 3500lbs. So according to the sales person we can tow with the Odyssey. But what I would like to know is there anyone doing that. Thanks again for the reply and happy RVing. Judy
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Old 10-17-2006, 09:35 AM   #19
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Judy,

I occasionally have to tow my tiny trailer with an underpowered ford explorer.

My trailer weighs 2400 lbs - empty. My Ford is rated to tow a little more than 3000 lbs and has had the suspension upgraded and I have to use weight distributing bars when I tow (a pain to set up). I HATE towing w/this vehicle. The trailer is in charge and there is no room for error - ever.

Your personal safety is not worth risking for a cool ride.

I have a suggestion for you, since you seem to be SUV minded. Go over to the Nissan lot and look at Pathfinders. They are about the same size,built on a truck chassis and rated to tow about 6,000 lbs. Right now there are some great deals out there.
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Old 10-17-2006, 10:16 AM   #20
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According to the logic I see here, an HDT should not tow an 80k lb trailer. Nearly all commercial trucks would qualify for "white knuckle" driving.

I think there are some other factors besides weight ratings to consider that are missing from this 'discussion'

There is a long history of folks towing RV's that exceed weight ratings quite safely. Some even seem to prefer such configurations. I don't think lambasting such a record as "unsafe" is productive. We may think it unwise and have other preferences, but we need to be careful IMHO about assigning conclusions not supported by evidence.

Quote:
A front wheel drive vehicle is NOT a safe tow vehicle
This is such a strong assertion given without rationale, I get very curious about the missing part.

Of course, we could open that Can Am Dodge Intrepid can of worms. That's always good for actual laboratory conditions testing of these things versus closely held paradigms and presumptions.

Then there is the GCWR vs GAWR and GVWR confusions. That gets into engineering concerns on the one hand and the religious aspects of arbitrary numbers on the other. (that brings in the speed limit related arguments!)

For a 'reduce to the absurd' I think some folks here would think moving their trailer on a flatbed truck is the best way to go. (this heads towards the class A philosophy)

Then there are the renown handling problems of very light trailers and various rules of thumb. (sway debate, anyone!)

I wonder which way this thread will go ...

Or will maybe, this time, just for once, those with very strong views will temper their enthusiasm a tad, hold back on the absolute and binary pronouncements, consider matters of judgment, allow for complexity in the issue, and honor actual experience?

Yes indeedie, towing an Airstream with a bicycle probably isn't the way many folks would care to RV. But then, isn't using a vehicle rated for a 15k lb tow rather overkill for a 5k lb trailer? Wouldn't the discussion be more profitable if directed towards how to configure rig and driver attitude for larger loads?

I am just waiting for GM or somebody to offer a sedan style designed for towing (like they used to). Instead the market seems to be towards luxury appointed pickups. I wonder why. What do people like about having to step up a few feet to get into their tow vehicle and having an open to the air storage in back? -- I think an evil grin goes in here somewhere ...
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Old 10-17-2006, 10:44 AM   #21
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You know..

I have to agree with Liepper. I don't see the need for a 1 ton truck for a 19ft trailer. I always go back to the "old days" of trailering even big 30ft trailers with a car. Yes, they had a full rail frame, but...
they were not as ridgid torsionally
they had awful brakes, handeling, and poor (for the most part) acceration
they had poor cooling
I'm sure the old bias ply tires were not rated for a particular weight factor
w/d was still in it's infancy

I still don't see why a Dodge Magnum, Charger (which I'd love to tow with) or Chrysler 300 couldn't do the job, safely? If the hitch load could be distributed well on the unibody (so it wouldn't pull apart), think of the lower center of gravity, lower drag resistance and better fuel economy it would have.

They have big disk brakes.... I wonder about the tranny and cooling though. I can't see why the big 3 can't make it happen.
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Old 10-17-2006, 10:46 AM   #22
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We may never see another B-Body type car from GM again. The reason is that the profit on the civi cars that were half ton rated was too small compared to the SUV/light truck counterparts.

As you see now, GM is even changing directions again by totally dropping the 8.1L in the 3/4 ton Suburban line and increasing the output of the 6.0L. No diesel....yet, but it's just around the corner, but that truck if it ever comes to be will be like the 3/4 cargo vans....one Duramax version behind, mated to a non Allision trans.....why? To get you to buy a 2500HD.

All boils down to $$$.

I think if we are looking at facts and real world senarios with the vehicle in question, one doesn't have to look much further than this thread where an acutal owner of an Odyssey said:

"Based on this extensive experience, I would urge you not to tow the Bambi with the Odyssey for many of the reasons listed on this thread."

I agree that there are some blanket statements being made, but at the same time, I also see folks trying to start something online which is counterproductive, but typical.
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Old 10-17-2006, 10:55 AM   #23
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Marc, I totally agree, few even need a 1 ton for even a 34' Airstream. I don't think we are comparing Apples to Apples here though. First, the good old days had nothing but Detriot pig iron with robust frames, big engines, etc. At the same time, trailers, particularly Airstream trailers did weigh less than the units of today.

Today, there are several great cars with lots of power, but as you said, they haven't been engineered to be tow vehicles. The answer as I see it is $$$. Dodge, GM, Ford have higher profit truck they want you to buy. Profit on most (read not all) cars is less than that of the SUVs and trucks. Engineering a car to do what the trucks or SUVs can do or close to it is a waste of money to them and in todays reality of fuel prices and fleet averages they have to meet, it just doesn't make $$ sense at all to them. That's why for the last 10 years GM walked away from the body on frame cars. I have 2 body on frame 1996 GM B-Body cars with gobs of horsepower, torque, etc....even with the power though, it still has limitiations just like any tow vehicle where there is a lack of wheelbase, weight, etc. Engine performance is just one of the factors. But I agree, it was a blast in perfect conditions towing with my Impala SS as it would be with the cars you've suggested. With a 19' Bambi, the SS was a champ. With the 25' Safari, it was grossly overmatched in weight and short wheelbase and in wind conditions, I needed a vacation just from going on vacation.
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Old 10-17-2006, 11:06 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leipper
...
I am just waiting for GM or somebody to offer a sedan style designed for towing (like they used to). Instead the market seems to be towards luxury appointed pickups. I wonder why. What do people like about having to step up a few feet to get into their tow vehicle and having an open to the air storage in back? -- I think an evil grin goes in here somewhere ...
Bryan,

I think it is because of CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy). Trucks, mini vans and suv's (including the Chevrolet HHP and Chrysler PT Cruiser) are in one class with lower economy requirements and cars are in another with higher economy requirements. That is why cars have been downsized and have at the most 3500 lbs tow capacity and some full size cars only 1,000 lbs. I believe that changes are coming with several standards based on GVW and not on vehicle type.

Bill
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Old 10-17-2006, 11:12 AM   #25
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Let's remember this person asked about a specific TT and TV. The combo mentioned was above listed weight limits and not safe, that is the bottom line. If they are researching a future purchase the best way we can help is to offer suggestion to guide them based on our experience. Hopefuly our collective "wisdom" can save them some time, $, and quite possibly a horrific accident.
There is no point in making blanket statements about FWD, small cars, big cars, etc, etc.
The numbers for the vehicles they inquired about do not leave any grey areas.
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Old 10-17-2006, 11:21 AM   #26
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oh yes...

the Odessey would not be a good choice... I see their tails dragging with tent campers around here. Now the Ridgeline may be a better choice.... I also hear that the new Acura MDX (and I'm assuming the Pilot) will have a 6000 # rating.... but that's just rumor for now.
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Old 10-17-2006, 11:57 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leipper
-According to the logic I see here....

-I wonder which way this thread will go ...

-Or will maybe, this time, just for once, those with very strong views will temper their enthusiasm a tad, hold back on the absolute and binary pronouncements, consider matters of judgment, allow for complexity in the issue, and honor actual experience?
hi bryan....

now really, aren't you overstating things a bit,
while pointing out how things are overstated in this thread?

while not offering the questioner ANY thing?



some who have strong views have tempered their enthusiasm a tad, held back on absolutes and made no binary pronouncements....

so skip the rhetoric...just one time and step up....

do you think it advisable for judy to tow a new bambi with a odyessy?
yes, no, maybe, perhaps, only with special fabrications....anything.....?

she has only given us limited info in the starter post.

perhaps she only plans to tow it home 5 miles on the flat....

or maybe she's planning to cross the rockies weekly....

she asked for actual user experience. so far only marshall fits that bill here. his suggestion is not to go with the odyessy. did you miss that? reasonable advice from a user without any brimstone....

can am does some amazing things. yes a w/d hitch can be integrated into or welded onto a unibody...

but the fabricator/installer REALLY needs to know their stuff, to get this right. right?

fwd can tow and fwds do tow...again getting the equipment and setup balanced is the key.

understanding parts will wear faster, that tires, wheels, axles, brakes, tranny, coolers and all the other related parts are affected isn't always obvious.

also judy can search the towing threads here, get advice from pros not salespeople, consider all the other variables....

and hopefull sort out for herself which posts are reasonable in this thread...

and which are not...

cheers
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Old 10-17-2006, 12:59 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leipper
But then, isn't using a vehicle rated for a 15k lb tow rather overkill for a 5k lb trailer? ...
My VISA card has a $25,000 credit limit, is it overkill to buy a pair of jeans with it and pay it off every month?

I have an Airstream with a gvwr of 8,400# and a 3/4 ton tow vehicle with a PSD and tow rating of 12,500#, is that overkill? I wouldn't have it any other way!
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