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Old 01-18-2013, 03:00 PM   #1
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beaumont , Texas
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need forum wisdom and experience

Hello everybody, I hope this is the right spot for a question. I have been shopping for our first Airstream for 4 months now, and have found 4 that I really like. I need help before we jump, 1 is a 75 argosy 28' , nice interior, ready to tow, dinette, good shape. has a dent in rear panel, this one is 5000.

2. this is a '64 24' Airstream, nice interior, but will need ac work, propane tanks, some body work, etc, it is in original condition with patched plumbing. this is 5500.00 .

I have followed the classifieds and found what I think is a nice '73 27' twin bed model, the front has been customized into a surround seating area, lots of work done on this one, solar power, new axles tires, brakes.. but it does not have a grey tank. this one is 8500.00.

hold on, I only have two more.. one is in my state, the only one from Texas that I have seen. in original condition, '67 25 ft. supposedly a really desirable one. with center double bed..not pretty.. big dent in rear, but everything works inside original decor not in great shape , newer tires installed. this is at 7500, but accessible.

the last one is at a dealer in Michigan who will deliver halfway.. '67 27' / real nice, serviced, new plumbing, propane systems good, new tires, axles, tanks, new fresh water tank. interior nice but for a delaminating panel over one of the twin beds. this one is polished and looks great except for the wrinkled wall, it is 12,000.

Please jump in with any opinions at all, I trust this site, and have read a lot about buying and restoration. I can do a lot of it myself, and want to, I just don't want the heavy lifting.. a/c tanks, fridge etc. I can paint , re do interior, flooring and re do the exterior/ Just cant make the decision on where to start. (other than we have sold our motorhome, and an '07 puma trailer to get to the airstream.. )

thanks for any help at all,,, Richard Collier, new member evco72@sbcglobal.net
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Old 01-18-2013, 05:44 PM   #2
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need forum wisdom and experience

Greetings Dixie722!

Welcome to the Forums and the world of Vintage Airstreams!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dixie722 View Post
Hello everybody, I hope this is the right spot for a question. I have been shopping for our first Airstream for 4 months now, and have found 4 that I really like. I need help before we jump, 1 is a 75 argosy28 , nice interior, ready to tow, dinette, good shape. has a dent in rear panel, this one is 5000.
The first generation (1972-1979) Argosy travel trailers are very nice coaches with the Airstream panache without the riggors of ongoing aluminum maintenance. They were considered a mid-price-point coach so originally sold for somewhat less than comparable size Airstreams. The basic underpinnings and body are virtually identical to Airstream with their being differences in the level of interior appointments and standard equipment. Most of the appliances utilized in Argosys were of the same manufacture as those utilized in similar Airstreams (refrigerators and water heaters may have been smaller on the Argosy than the comparable Airstream). One feature that most first-generation Argosy travel trailer owners love are the Panoramic front windows . . . these windows permit a very open feel in the front living area.

When comparing an Argosy coach to an Airstream coach with a dent, the Argosy will typically be less expensive to repair as many of the more minor repairs can be made with "typical' automotive bodyshop techniques. The top rear panel (sometimes called dome or endcap) on the vast majority of Argosy travel trailers is galvanized steel so if that is where the damage is found, it probably could rather easily be repaired by an automotive bodyshop . . . but if you decide to pursue this coach, my suggestion would be to get an estimate from a bodyshop for the needed repair.

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Originally Posted by Dixie722 View Post
2. this is a 64 24 ' airtstream, nice interior, but will need a c work, propane tanks, some body work, etc, it is in original condition with patched plumbing. this is 5500.00 .
I will admit that I am biased toward the 1964 Airstreams. They were something of the end of an era for a couple of design features that I particularly like . . . the door-within-a-door, and the jalousie windows beside the entry door. An damaged panels on the body that you can't live with as-is, will likely require panel replacement to remedy, and typically, panel replacements begin around $2,000 when handled by a competent service center. Overlay replacements can be less costly, but someone familiar with Airstreams will be able to immediately identify an overlay repair. In an overlay repair the damaged panel isn't removed, rahter a new panel is placed over the damaged original and attached with Olympic-type blind rivets. I authorized an overlay repair on my Overlander more than a decade ago, and have no regrets as it was done by a very meticulous Airstream repair center resulting in a repair that can only be identified by a very astute Airstream hobbyist. If the Tradewind that you are considering is an International model, you are likely to find that it has golden oak cabinetry, and it may have quilted vinyl panels on the roof and walls in the bedroom area . . . this appears to be a unique feature of 1964 International trim grades.

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Originally Posted by Dixie722 View Post
I have followed the classifieds and found what I think is a nice 73 27' twin bed model, the front has been customized into a surround seating area, lots of work done on this one, solar power, new axles tires, brakes.. but it does not have a grey tank. this one is 8500.00.
Many would refer to the 1973 models as "Beatrice" ear coaches. While there isn't anything horribly wrong with these coaches, they do have a few "unique" problems (many of which may have been corrected by prior owners). The 27' Overlander would be among the shorter coaches that might experience frame droop, but it is approaching the size where there is that rare possibility. With frame droop, you will typically notice a drop in the floor from the center of the coach toward the rear . . . in some cases, it is possible to see cracks in the frame where it is exposed in the wheel wells. The factory issues a frame stiffening kit to address this problem many years ago, and it is said to still be availale from the factory to address this problem should it be found. As with the Argosy that you first mentioned, you will find that the interior of this coach is most likely to be plastic laminate that may or may not have fared well over the past few decades.

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Originally Posted by Dixie722 View Post
hold on, I only have two more.. one is in my state, the only one from Texas that I have seen. in original condition, 67 25 ft. supposedly a really desirable one. with center double bed..not pretty.. big dent in rear, but everything works inside original decor not in great shape , newer tires installed. this is at 7500, but accessible.
The Tradewinds were desirable when new, and continue to be popular today due to their near ideal compromise between length and towability. The big dent in the rear could be a big liability so far as value is concerned as the formed front or rear panels are usually the most expensive to replace. The price would seem a bit steep to me if the coach is going to require much in the way of interior refurbishment in addition to the body repairs . . . it wouldn't be very difficult to tie up as much as $7,000 to $10,000 between refurbishing those two areas. Also, keep in mind that 1966-1968 Airstreams had Corning tempered glass (curved) windows, that while new replacements are now available . . . they are comparatively expensive if you find that the coach needs to have any acrylic replacement windows remedied (prior to the past few years, you couldn't buy new windows for these coaches, but they have become available as reproductions . . . while glass wasn't available, owners usually resorted to acrylic replacements that were noted for problems with sealing that permitted water intrusion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dixie722 View Post
the last one is at a dealer in Michigan who will delive
r halfway.. 67 27 / real nice, serviced, new plumbing, propane systems good, new tires, axles, tanks, new fresh water tank. interior nice but for a delaminating panel over one of the twin beds. this one is polished and looks great except for the wrinkled wall, it is 12,000.
The Overlander is among my favorite coaches with its primary benefit over the next smaller Tradewind is the extra square footage in the living area (it seems that most of the additional 2-feet in length is found in the living area). Again, this coach would have the concern about any acrylic windows rather than the OEM-type tempered curved glass. The delaminating panel would be of concern as it would suggest one of two things to me . . . the first being a likely water leak that went unattended . . . or exposure to excessive temperatures while stored. The price may be a bit high, but I am judging based upon prices in the Midwest. At the stated price, I would expect a coach in excellent condition with a combination of well-preserved original and decently restored needing little more than fresh polish and cleaning to be ready for use. My suggestion would be to ask for proof of new components such as axles, appliances, etc. to assist you in establishing a value.

With each of the coaches you have described, there are common concersn that should be addressed given your desire to have something that doesn't need significant repairs/restoration. Keep in mind that each of the coaches that you are considering is more than 30 years old so many components are at or beyond their expected lifespan. With each coach, you should be asking questions such as:
  1. Have the axles been replaced? If they have been replaced when, and who did the replacement? I would suggest looking for a dated receipt describing the axles installed. An original axle on any of the coaches indicated would be a definite candidate for replacement.
  2. When were the brakes last serviced? This is for two reasons. First, you want to verify when the last wheel bearing service was completed (most suggest every other year while others every year). Second, you want to know when the brakes themselves were last inspected/adjusted.
  3. You will want to examine the coach carefully for moisture damage to the floor, particularly under windows and any other openings in the skin. Rot is common inside of the rear one-stop-service compartments as well as under the front window(s) and entry door, but rot can be found under any opening when seals haven't been properly maintained.
  4. Damaged exterior panels, particularly on an Airstream can have a dramatic impact on the value of a particular coach. The top dome/endcap panels whether front or rear tend to be the quite expensive to replace. Also, keep in mind that an overlay repair is possible, but many enthusiasts will also discount the value of a coach with such a repair.
Something else to consider is that you have three very distinct design eras among the coaches that you are considering. You may find that you prefer the overall feel of one more than the others. The 1964 with have plywood cabinetry that has a veneer of hardwood . . . liekly oak, but may differ between Land Yacht and International trim levels. The 1964 will have door-within-a-door as well as the jalousie window(s) beside the door that won't be found on any of the other models. The 1967 coaches will have the Corning tempered curved glass windows that won't be found on the ealier or later coaches, and you will have a separate screen door rather than the door-within-a-door. The 1970s era Airstream will likely have laminate interior cabinetry as will the Argosy; and both coaches will also likely have tambour cabinet doors in at least a portion of the coach. The early 1970s era Airstream will have a three-piece front window with smaller side wing windows while the Argosy will have the deep-wrap wing windows on either side of the center opening window - - with either coach, you would want to have a front rock guard as the wing windows are expensive to replace on either coach.

Based upon your descriptions, there isn't a clear winner value-wise. My suggestion would be to carefully inspect each coach that you are considering utilizing the "Volunteer Inspector's Checklist" mentioned on the homepage of the Forums. This check-list will help you to identify the positives an shortcomings of each coach. There are volunteer inspectors here on the Forums (see the Forum Homepage) who can be contacted to assist you in inspecting a coach if you find that you need someone with prior experience help you make your assessment.

Good luck with your investigation!

Kevin
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:02 PM   #3
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thanks

Kevin, thank you so very much for taking the time to respond, I will take your advice and try to find an inspector in the area where each trailer lives. The last one, from the dealer, with the water damage wall, I specifically asked about it after seeing the pictures. The sales manager spent a lot of time with me, about the entire trailer. he said that he can not see any evidence of the water intrusion, and this does not make sense other than the temperature problems. i have been a painting contractor for 40 years, I have seen this happen with panelling, it can de ;laminate without a real cause, but i just dont know about this. the thing I did like was that the work was done at a dealership, the owner had bought the trailer to use for himself. Everrything has been checked, but as you said, it is the most expensive of the lot.at 12,000. the 73 27 ' is probably the most worked over, the husband did a lot of repair, sinks counter tops, black tank top repair and new flange for toilet, solar panel power with 3 batteries.3 fantastic vents.but the univolt is no longer there, nor is the grey tank for whatever reason. it has newly professionaly installed electric brakes, tires, and axles. they originally wanted 10,500 for it, but to me , it was not realistic. I have offered 8,000 and could probably get it for that. They re built the front area, did a nice job, surround seating with storage, and a drop table for the bed. I like this one also very much, but it is probably the furthest away from original. I think the remodeling was done very well. The little 64 is completely original, but as soon as I spend the 5500, it will need tires, ac , plumbing and i just dont see me being able to have it raise the value accordingly. I guess that is what my problem boils down to, which one will I be the safest financially in, I already know the first one will be sold and i will want a better one, nicer and more collectible. I truly have the fever..just want to get started.
the last one in texas with the large dent, it is the roughest but the owner thinks it is a real collectors item, with the center double bed being very rare. I am not sure this is the case, ples it has been sitting on a lot for 12 years, although it is in use regularly.The argosy , I keep coming back to it, seems real nice and very functional. i know I can do the body work on this one, the dent is below the venter line and confined to one curved panel, plus it is painted. Nothing is new on it, but everythng works. so you see my indecision.man, this is confusing. I wish I was the type of guy that just sees one, likes it and buys it.. thanks for your time, hope to hear back from you on this . Richard Collier
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Old 01-18-2013, 09:49 PM   #4
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Is this for your enjoyment or for an investment? If you are trying to get the best Airstream deal available, let that go. There will always be another one that is a bit snazzier or a bit cheaper.

If this is for your use and enjoyment, the old adage of a bird in the hand being worth two in the bush really applies here. Yes, there may be a slightly better trailer or slightly better deal down the road. But you will have been camping in your own beloved Airstream all along before it showed up.

Find something that works for you, just for you, not the rarest or the most sought after, but what works for you. There will probably be several that will be "good enough" and you can pick based on how much work and customizing you want to do.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:13 PM   #5
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questions

This search is for a number of reasons, the foremost being that we have always wanted one. I know it is not a money making oppotunity for me. i just dont want to overspend for what i get, and thats a real possiblilty with this being my first airstream. I really like this forum , and the people I have met so far. Very helpful and a wealth of information. thanks for the reply, we are almost there.. Richard Collier
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:57 PM   #6
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Choice is yours'

The real choice on the '67 trailers is the length. My '67 Safari 22 foot has a center double and twin beds up front that serve as the dinette seats. The double is not that rare! The two lengths you refer to are a 24 foot which would be a Tradewind and a 26 foot which would be a Overlander. Then above that are the 28 foot Ambassador and the 31 foot Sovereign. The smaller trailers in the '67 line are considered the most desirable. That would include the Bambi, the Caravel and the Safari models. From what I have learned here on the forums those smaller models tend to be the ones most sought after. The Tradewind starts the sizes with dual axles and they tend to be wanted most by folks with families to camp with. Hope this helps define the differences in the sizes you may be looking at. Prices are all what the buyer is willing to pay. It all depends then on what you feel will serve your needs the best. Don't buy thinking a few repairs will increase a future sale price. Only put $$$$ into the trailer that makes your experience camping better for you. Be careful to do the best inspection to have a better idea what you may have to repair or replace during your use of any trailer. Enjoy what you buy and repair or replace items as you need to! Happy Trails, Ed
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Old 01-19-2013, 12:07 AM   #7
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You have quite a spread of different years and styles of trailer. If at this point in time there are this many that interest you than one month from now there might be another 2 or maybe all of them will be gone. Personally the best thing to do is to arm yourself with as much knowledge of airstream trailers from tip to tail from ground to sky. Most Airstream purchase will require patience more than anything. If you talk to anyone selling an airstream most will tell you that 10 people have come to see it that day and most people "seem real interested" or they hear "i'll give you 500.00 for it". They aren't necessarily "flying off the shelves". A lot of first time home buyers a year in will say "well I didn't know that" but sound buyers know exactly what they're getting into. If you treat the Airstream the same way it will help minimize the pain and anguish of owning one.

Best thing is to keep cruising the forums and you will eventually find people who have bought trailers with the exact same 'symptoms' as the ones you are looking at and will usually find out very quickly if you have the stomach to take on such an endeavor. and for most sellers never believe what they say the trailer has or doesnt have, what works or doesnt work. An inspector is your best bet but once you start taking a trailer apart guess who is the inspector now!

At any rate I'm sure none of this is news to you. If you've been in the paint business for 40 years you know how to cover your bases and your question to this forum is one way of achieving that in your purchase. Please keep us informed and how things are coming a long and we hope you will be happy with what you end up with.
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:26 AM   #8
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thanks

You guys are the reason I love this forum. You guys are also the main reason that I love the airstreams, the community of owners. I am looking forward to really being a membor of this group, not just an on looker.. Richard
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:28 AM   #9
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Buying an older trailer can be quite a chalange. There are three major items you need to look for.
Is the coach free from dents and wrinkles? Dented panels can be expensive to fix. Wrinkles mean a frame failure and cannot always be fixed without replacing panels.
Is the frame good? Check the forum for frame problems. If the frame is only cracked it can be repaired very easily. A rusted out frame (more common in the northern states) could mean a frame replacement. That means a frame off restoration.
Are there any soft spots in the flooring? This means the trailer leaks and you will have to both fix the leak and replace the bad spots in the floor. Worst case , frame off to replace the entire floor.
Everything else can be replaced with enough time and money.
I tend to like smaller, lighter trailers. Easier and cheaper to tow. Makes for a quick getaway on the weekend.
Our first trailer was a 1972 Safari 23'. Loved it!
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:00 AM   #10
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On the gray tank in the 73, it probably never had 1 from the factory.

74 was the first year gray tanks were standard in any make of travel trailer.

73 was a transition year from what I can tell travel trailers manufactured after Jan. 1,1973 were required to have gray tanks this is 1/2 way through the 1973 model year (also they may have started the 1974 model year early to advertize the '74 had gray tanks since some people knew most '73 and older trailers didn't have them).
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:17 PM   #11
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down to two

Several days have passed, and I have really worked on finding my trailer. I have narrowed the search to a 72 overlander 27' and a 73 argosy 28' . The overlander is 3500.00 more than the argosy, and does have a lot of improvements. my only reservation is how much I could do with the argosy with 3500 improvements, but then I might be putting more in than it would be worth. The thing about the argosy at 5000 is the originality of the interior, it is all there and good. The overlander has been modified somewhat, it now has booth dinette seating in the front. hmmm. My wife votes for the overlander, simply because it is a shiny airstream.. go figure.. Richard ya'll jump in with whatever opinions you might have. (can't tell I am from Texas)... ps I also met a really nice guy with a 50's avion 24.. really nice trailer, but not an airstream..
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:41 PM   #12
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Is your wife going to polish the A$ and do all of the work to keep it shiny?
I like the idea of a bucket of water and soap. That's all it takes to make my Argosy look clean. It has a few scratches and dents here and there. They have no effect on how it tows.
It doesn't take long to blow thru money on these rigs. I don't expect that I will even break even when the time comes to sell it.
So we use it as much as possible. About 30 days a year. When you consider a decent motel is $50.00 to $100.00 a night. And there is zero return on that.
Do you know if the axles have been replaced on either of these trailers. You can figure between $1,500 and $2,500 if they need to be replaced. And they will if they are original.
Crawl under the trailer and check the data plate. It will tell you when they were made. Not necessarily when they were installed.
If you go to my blog. There are some before and after pics.
Good Luck on your choice.
Another note: unless they have been modified, neither trailer has a grey water tank.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:56 PM   #13
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Axles, Axles and Axles!!! Based on that length you'll have two of them. Disc brakes or not? Depending on your Tow vehicle it would be a good idea to have disc brakes. At any rate, the previous owner might have changed the axles but if not and more often than not that will be your first investment if you're buying what your thinking is a ready to camp vehicle (meaning all the other systems check out) that right there could be up to a 3000.00 endeavor for axles and brakes and possibly 2000.00 if you're gonna do the work yourself. You can bother a little with the interior because it might just need a good cleaning but make sure that you run ALL systems and check everything that requires power or pressure aka gas and water lines. Again don't ever believe a PO when he says this or that has been 'fixed' or 'taken care of' unless receipts and warranties are presented. New tires don't mean much if they've been baking in the sun for a long time. Honestly when you say that the overlander is 3500.00 more than the Argosy that is a huge amount. but for arguments sake if the argosy is 5000.00 putting the Overlander at around 8500.00 it 'could' potentially be too much. Basically just saying that do as much nationwide investigation into what Overlanders are going for of that approximate year. Again I'm just throwing numbers out there so they might not even correlate to your purchase price. If you have any questions at all the best thing is to have an inspector go out and check it out. let us know how it goes
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:55 AM   #14
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amazing kreskin

First of all, thanks to all that are helping me with this. Second, I am sitting at the computer laughing at the response about who is going to maintain the shine on the aluminum. Third, If the old mind reader Kreskin is among those who are posting, you could not be any closer to what has been running through my mind. It is really something that my concerns seem to be a common thread among those more experienced,, those who have been there and done this. The argosy is 5000. and the overlander is 8500.00, surprise.. The argosy has no reciepts for any work done, just the owner's ( who is a buy them and flip them operation) words on condition, however I do tend to trust him, The owner of the overlander did all work himself, and no verification there either. I have been thinking all along that the overlander is overpriced, although nice, but was just about to buy it anyway. I like the fact it is solar powered with 3 deep marine batteries powered by two panels. the bathroom floor is repaired, as is the black tank, and I got details on that, could not have done it better myself.. new mattresses, new front booth, new counter tops.but one of the front curved windows is broken..(sounds like I am trying to convince someone how good it is). I may be off base on this one. Protohype has offered to talk to me on the phone, and I am going to take him up on it, as soon as it is decent to wake him up , we are in central time. I feel like a kid with money in his pocket, just dont want to make silly mistakes. This is more of a task than I thought, but I know it will be worth it in the end. It is something that I really want to do for my wife, she is not in good health and this has been a dream for her. thanks to all, Richard
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