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Old 09-08-2006, 04:56 PM   #15
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500# is a lot of stuff...

Many of the members here prefer to travel with empty holding tanks, and fresh water tank less than half full, for a variety of reasons.. It is usually easy to find place to empty holding tanks when leaving campground (if no full hookups..) and it is also usually possible to find fresh water supply when needed if you are going to be "dry camping" somewhere without easy hose access for fresh water...

That said, 500 pounds or so is a lot for typical stuff in the trailer, including clothing, food, linens, books and utensils/cookware.. You may be forced to go with flat screen TV for weight purposes ( ) and keep other things like firewood and barbecue in the back of the truck.. What you do take in the trailer might benefit from balancing, to assure heavy items in front, and not in rear-most storage compartments, to keep weight on front hitch...

As for the truck, one of the reasons for trying to keep GVWR of trailer at 80-85% or so of truck's towing capacity is so extras like passengers and luggage and generators and other stuff in truck (which counts against its total towing capacity) doesn't contibute to overload when you drive away... The two groups of people whose oral assurances should be tested carefully are truck salespersons and RV salespersons... SOME of them might be tempted to dismiss proper concerns in the interest of making a sale.... Look at the manufacturer's materials and window stickers and other documentation, and rely on that more than on glowing claims from salespersons...

John McG
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Old 09-08-2006, 04:57 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver1
Well that's chopped & reshuffled.Is there a way to insert or attach PDF or Excel files?Walt
sure walt....scroll down to the 'manage attachments' button...
text, pdf and the other options...just check your size and byte limits and reduce them as needed.

i think excel files would need to be converted to text documents

so you are planning to load a boat IN the truck bed before hooking up the trailer....cool.

cheers
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Old 09-08-2006, 05:35 PM   #17
2006 F350 V10 Ext. Cab LB
 
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Duh!

Shoudda seen that scrollbar!

I'll try the PDF of the sheet.

Walt
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File Type: pdf RigCapacities.pdf (61.9 KB, 91 views)
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Old 09-08-2006, 05:56 PM   #18
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My '89 Excella is slightly better but not much allowing a
1000-1200lb load in the trailer and combined with my
Nissan Titan I often run right at the combined limit and even over as I full-time and have to carry more stuff. In
spite of that it works.

Steve
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Old 09-08-2006, 07:46 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Driver1
Hi,

The rig configuration I'm working toward is a bit unusual. The boat and it's trailer are hauled up into the pickup bed by a winch and rail system, then the Airstream hooks on normally. Below are the calcs I'm working with so far (Copied in from an Excel sheet - the graphic of the rig wouldn't load here).

I hope this works.

Walt


Ford F250 5.4 Gas SCab LB 4.1 Axle 4x2 / 1998 Airstream Classic Excella 1000 30'9/8/2006 14:41Unused
Capacity
VehicleGCWR (Combined Wt)18,0001,496
Walt,

Here's my take on your proposed combination. Unless you have already found this combination (5.4 V8/4.10 gears) on a dealer's lot you will have to order it. 18 months ago when I was shopping for a truck I attempted to find this combination and came up dry. If you have to order it you will pay closer to MSRP than if you take a truck already on the dealer's lot. Just because Ford says that you can move 18,000 lbs with the 5.4/4.10 combination doesn't means it's a good idea.

Based on my experience with my rig I'm REALLY GLAD I bought a diesel. With a combined weight of over 15,000 lbs my rig moves SMARTLY but I never forget that I have an 8,000 lb + trailer behind me. My truck produces 570 lb ft of torque at only 2000 RPM, 205 lb ft MORE than the 5.4 makes @ 3750 RPM. Besides the quantity of power available from the diesel it's the quality. When my engine upshifts at 3300 RPM (a RPM level a gas is just starting to wake up at) it comes down ABOVE it's torque peak and keeps accellerating. When traffic forces me to slow when climbing a 6% grade I have enough power on tap to get back to speed, with a 5.4 if you loose speed in the mountains YOU'LL NEVER GET IT BACK!

If you absolutely do not want a diesel then save your sanity and buy the V10 with at least 4.10 gears.
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Old 09-08-2006, 09:41 PM   #20
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well driver1....

i sure hope others glance at this thread,
and your proposal...
if for no other reason than,
it may be the single most organized i've yet 2 see here....

here are a few quick thoughts...
more this weekend when i can look again.

--don't see where you included the weight of a w/d hitch...
this will be 100-250lbs more on the tv...

--ford's curb weight doesn't include options...
like the receiver or step-in bars or bed liners and so on...
so unless and until you get a real user weight for the truck...expect it 2 b more.

--besides towing ratings for mass, frontal area is an issue...a/s are sleek but the boat sticking up does add resistance beyond it's weight....not as much as a big 5th wheel, but more than just the airstream and a payload. and this issue does affect towing, mpg, control and so on... on the + side, your photo appears to be a short bed. the long bed you suggest will allow the boat to ride a bit lower...

--your boat mass isn't just IN the bed. some is over the cab....so this arrangement may be the one time ford's optional 'camper package' may be usefull....higher rated springs, rear antisway bar and a certificate to pinpoint center of gravity over the cab....of course IF this option is added the truck will weight a little more

--i agree completly with steve the 5.4/4.1 combo is hard to find and likely will need to be ordered. i like the diesel option here too, but if you are really opposed 2diesel...get the v10.

what year truck? if 05 or newer you can get 10k+ gvwr...more than the 9.2 in your calculations...so more payload capacity.

2x4 is a wise choice.
a bigger engine will pull this mass better.
but none of this expands the carrying capacity of the trailer....
a higher gvwr for the truck will provide more carrying capacity...

more later...

and again you should be commended for working hard on these details and giving us so many of the figures...

common folks give the man some experienced opinions!

cheers
2air'
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Old 09-08-2006, 10:14 PM   #21
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Ford GVWRs

Starting in 2005 Ford changed how they rated the Super Duty trucks. In order to give all engine options roughly the same payload Ford adjusts the GVWR according to the engine choice. For a F250 Supercab 2WD longbed it's 9200 lbs for the 5.4, 9400 for the V10, and 9800 for the diesel. Given your need to haul the boat and trailer in the bed of the truck 2air's opinion concerning the camper package is valid. Ford says that this truck weighs about 6,000 lbs, expect about 6200 lbs with the normal options.

Have you considered a crewcab instead of the Supercab? I ask because I've owned both. Ford sells more crewcabs than Supercabs for a reason. The crewcab is MUCH quieter and the cab feels much more solid. The front seats in the crewcab are superior to the Supercab's seats as well. The only drawback is the extra 16 inches of length.

And DO NOT forget Ford's optional brake controller. IT'S GREAT!
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Old 09-08-2006, 11:48 PM   #22
2006 F350 V10 Ext. Cab LB
 
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Hi All,
Steve, I too have found it's gonna' be a specified order (Other folks don't seem to like the configuration). And, I do take your thoughts about a diesel seriously. But I just don't mind too much if I'm slow heading up the pass and I truly hate the sound of a diesel (I especially hate it when someone next to my tent fires one up and lets it warm a bit at 4:30 AM).

2air, you're right, I missed the weight distribution gear. I didn't understand that it has to be considered part of the payload. I did notice that it's a Reese and on showing some pics to a Camping World service desk chap he didn't recognize it even though they are a Reese dealer. I have no clue about the weight beyond your note of 100-250#. And, I guess I have to allow a couple hundred lbs. for the receiver and camper pkg. (Anybody know where I might find those weights?).

While you can get the 10,000 GVWR on the F250, I can't find where it increases the payload (The highest payload I can find is 3300# for the F250).

Maybe I should just go with the F350 SRW, with the same options. The MSRP difference is $1,465 and the book payload would go from 3200 to 4300# (No effect on the GCVW or Max. Trailer Weight). That would bump the gear carrying capacity by 1100#.

Yes, I'm thinking about the air resistance of the boat sticking up there (Even with the long bed). The only dealer I know of for this system is Heimgartner Trailer Systems at www.trailersystems.com . Please take a look at their web site to see if you feel more comfortable about the rig. Do you think there's any chance the boat might run interference for the Airstream regarding air resistance?

I've attached the specs I've had in mind in an Edmunds pricing report.
Steve, I was just about to post when I noticed your latest. You've also noted that the payload doesn't change much in the F250 variants. I thought about the Crew Cabs, but that extra 16" just puts it over the top for me.

Thanks Everyone,
Walt
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Old 09-09-2006, 12:43 AM   #23
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ok driver1

looked at the boat site...
it is an interesting system and looks well thought out for the application...

if you were in texas...the boat would be behind the trailer....

lots of 5er's do this.

a hitch on the tail of an airstream is a classic no-no but i did meet a texan who was happliy pulling a boat behind and new 25ft safari...looked like a 3 car train!

a lighter boat carried upside down would be more aero..but i'm sure you've thought these things through getting to your set up...have they given you any insight in to how fast folks drive with these boats loaded...perhaps 60 is would be fine...

yes the 350 srw will get the desired extra payload. we had this discussion in another thread...
the 350 has a slightly larger axle/bearing size, different wheel/tire combos, a different rubber bump stop on the rear and the helper leaf spring...but those are the only differences i recall so the 250/350 srw are otherwise the same trucks...i test drove both and ride wasn't any harsher on the 350s.

i would order the 350 and get the higher payload...no diesel? ok are you sure 'no' on the v10 too? you will be slow uphill and the 4.1 gearing means higher revs at highway speeds...so the small gasser will work hard. the 350 route really solves the payload issue and limited cc of the airstream.

i'll assume you've driven them in each flavor...the diesel is so strong. highway towing is 1800-2100 rpms and like but-ta! ok back to a gasser...

have you driven the 2x4s...these are rare to find with any engine...but look great sitting lower and with the long bed. don't forget limited slip rear ends...perhaps that is obvious.

like steve said the built-in brake controller is a fine thing...i still don't understand why the other guys aren't offering this yet...it was a deal maker for me.

i too ordered a truck...got it spec'd exactly as i wanted. only took 4-5 weeks but i've read the 250 factory is going to have 2 scheduled shutdowns...several weeks this fall and again in feb...

so you better get with that 350 order!

on the hitch issue..the trailer in question already has a hitch...
the loads suggest you'll want 1000lb w/d bars and does it have sway control....i'm a hensley user but the dual cam has happy users too.
while the hitch is mounted on the trailer, once hooked up and properly adjusted the hitch mass is really tv payload...

cheers
2air'
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Old 09-09-2006, 09:15 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver1
Hi All,
Steve, I too have found it's gonna' be a specified order (Other folks don't seem to like the configuration). And, I do take your thoughts about a diesel seriously. But I just don't mind too much if I'm slow heading up the pass and I truly hate the sound of a diesel (I especially hate it when someone next to my tent fires one up and lets it warm a bit at 4:30 AM).
Walt,

OK, so you don't like diesels. I can respect your choice even though I think it's a mistake. Give some serious thought to the V10, it's only a $600 option (MSRP) and will get about the same gas mileage as the V8. DO NOT let some salesperson talk you into buying the wrong truck just because they have it on their lot.

Do yourself a favor and drive a 5.4 V8 powered truck (even if it has 3.73 gears) before you order a truck with this engine. Then drive both the V10 (assuming you can find one, I couldn't last night) and the diesel.
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Old 09-10-2006, 02:00 AM   #25
2006 F350 V10 Ext. Cab LB
 
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Hi,

We took delivery of our Airstream today - not much time to check in here.

I'll try tomorrow to organize what I think I'll do as a result of this discussion and post it then.

Interestingly, the dealer's truck used to deliver the Airstream was a Ford F350 with the V10 and the tow command. His driver didn't even bother with the weight distribution bars and there were only a couple times I could notice minor front to back rocking.

Has anyone ever considered making available a standardized, and generalized spreadsheet model, similar to what I set up for my own use, that the forum members could download from this web site and enter their own specific data (It seems to me it would help folks avoid some uncertainty and ambiguity I see in the towing threads)? We might be able to include some lookup tables including the basic GVWR, GAWR, & Dry Weight data for every year's airstreams (All models) ever produced, and maybe even the options' weights, to help users include their relavant data. I do write custom Excel/VBA based applications for my clients and I'd be quite willing to collaborate on such a project gratis as time permits. I'd certainly need the involvement of you experts and we might get some help with electronic data listings from Airstream, GM, Ford, & Dodge. There would be some liability issues we'd have to nail down too.

It's late.

G'nite All,
Walt
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Old 09-10-2006, 06:32 PM   #26
2006 F350 V10 Ext. Cab LB
 
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I'll adapt to the small gear capacity in the '98 Excella

Hi to All,

After a lot of thought and great input from you folks. It comes down to the fact that the trailer is just great. I'll adjust to the small load capacity by mostly shifting weight to the tow vehicle and using some of the suggestions like a less than full water tank when possible. To be able to shift that weight to the tow vehicle and to carry the boat and its trailer in the pickup bed, I'll have to go with the 1 ton and I'll take Steve's recommendation to avoid the smaller gas engine.

Iíve modified the rig capacity computations to pickup on the optional equipment effect on the payload of the tow vehicle, as 2air mentioned, and Iíve done some weighing of some items (Some numbers are corrected Ė those batteries are really heavy). There are still some weight guesses in there, but I think Iím in the right ball park.

The value of being able to trailer my boat to and from the launch each day has me pretty sure Iíll go with the Heimgartner setup. Iíve noticed how things tend to get banged up from loading a boat upside down on a truck. Maybe Iíll drive over to Spokane and try a test drive with one of these.

Meanwhile Iíll attach my updated rig capacities sheet and tow vehicle spec sheet.

I truly appreciate all the help offered in thinking this through.

By for now,
Walt
Attached Files
File Type: pdf RigCapacities.pdf (62.4 KB, 105 views)
File Type: pdf XLT_F350V10.pdf (351.8 KB, 37 views)
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