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Old 12-19-2018, 05:49 AM   #21
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1968 24' Tradewind
Oxford, , Mississippi
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Your thread is bringing back memories. I only had to replace the rear sub floor and then patch a few other spots. There is a cross member that is between the frame rails right around the door opening for the bathroom. If you use a vibrating saw (multi-master or in my case Harbor Freight) and run the cut exactly in the middle of the rail you will have a ledge to secure the new floor . If you can get the old floor out in big pieces you can use it for a pattern. Mine was so rotten that it was no use for a pattern. If not, use a piece of 1/8 thick plywood and make a pattern. Get it fitting perfectly and then trace the outline on a new floor. Reason is you will have to take it in and out several times and the flooring is too heavy to work with. You will have to split the new floor as it is impossible to slide one big piece into the c-channel and the curves. Make the split along one of the frame rails. Finally, round of the edges of the new floor with at router and then seal the edges with a good epoxy (I like West System) to prevent future water damage. I applied a couple of layers of fiberglass over the area of the bathroom floor between the frame rails. The really stiffened up the floor and took the bounce out of it and will proved protection if the toilet ever leaks. Feel free to PM me on a 68 specific question.
Also here is a link from a good friend of mine documenting the restoration of his 67 Overlander
http://www.knology.net/~tcwilliams/AirstreamIndex.htm
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Old 12-22-2018, 11:50 AM   #22
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1968 26' Overlander
Beaver County , Pennsylvania
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Summer,


We agree with the many posts singing the praises for the '68 Overlander. Don't hesitate to use the forum for inspiration, ideas, solutions and questions. We've found that whatever you get into, someone here has been there before and figured out a solution. If interested, here's a link to our rebuild thread, https://www.airforums.com/forums/f36...er-155180.html.



Here's a link to a sealnat thread that has lots of great info on what sealants for what applications, https://www.airforums.com/forums/f45...ry-116214.html


I'll offer my opinion on your frame question. Recognize others will likely have different opinions (that's the strength of the forums...) I think, if your frame is solid and the amount of subfloor you need to replace is reasonable, you should be able to clean the frame up (wire wheel/brush, etc.) and paint it from underneath. Lifting the shell is a significant step that adds a considerable amount of time and labor to your project. The '68s were among the few that had spray on insulation under-floor. Again, my opinion is you only need to remove the foam in the way of inspecting, repairing and painting the frame and on any floor pieces you need to replace.



Having a covered work area is a definite benefit. We hope you enjoy the project phase and are sorry you were disappointed by the restoration company. Please keep us posted on your progress.


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Old 12-28-2018, 08:48 PM   #23
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Lynchburg , Virginia
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Summer

Sorry about your difficult start, but sounds like you are on the right track and doing a great job (and look at all the stuff you are learning).

I agree with David. Go ahead and remove the axles. You will need to install new axles and brakes. I wouldn’t try to reuse the old belly pan. Install new material and install the pieces going across. I did this on my 66 Tradewind. I replaced pieces of flooring where it was rotted out in the bathroom. I recommend you do the same. This shouldn’t be too hard since your interior is gutted. My thread is “Dan’s 66 Tradewind improvements”. Take a look at post #93 concerning floor repair.

A 68 Overlander is a great year to have, probably the best. Count yourself fortunate here.

Keep up the good work and ask questions and post photos. Lots of knowledgeable folks here to help you out.

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Old 01-13-2019, 11:00 PM   #24
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1968 26' Overlander
Los Gatos , California
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Removing Spray Foam Insulation + Waterproofing

Thank you everyone for your encouragement! I find myself thinking about the forum and the posts I can add to show my progress while I'm working on the trailer. It's motivating

I've been working on scraping off the spray foam insulation from the belly pan/subfloor. The plywood looks as good on the bottom as it does on the top! Also the frame is looking really solid Love it when I have good news to share!

My method for getting the insulation off: make random/criss cross cuts with a utility knife, then scrape/stab/pry out chunks with a mill file. I had read online to use a paint scraper but the ones I had on hand were too flimsy. I've also read moistening with water and/or acetone can help. It hasn't come to that yet, but I'm less than a quarter of the way done so we'll see!

I also began to waterproof skin seams on the interior with vulkem. The majority of my leaks are coming from around the ceiling vents though so it will be a whole new can of worms trying to get those uninstalled and replaced.

Happy renovating everyone!!
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Old 01-14-2019, 05:40 AM   #25
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You are doing great work . The frame and plywood do look good . Lots of fun ? Keep up the good work with lots of photos .
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Old 01-14-2019, 06:48 PM   #26
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You gotta love those California Airstreams. The trailers from the southwest always seem to be in better condition. There are tons of aluminum aircraft stored at Davis Monthan air force base in Tuscon. They are there for a very dry reason.

That spray on foam insulation was an idea that didn't last. It is a bugger to dig out from under the trailer. You'll get it one chunk at a time.

David
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Old 01-14-2019, 09:05 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stargirl View Post
Thank you everyone for your encouragement! I find myself thinking about the forum and the posts I can add to show my progress while I'm working on the trailer. It's motivating

I've been working on scraping off the spray foam insulation from the belly pan/subfloor. The plywood looks as good on the bottom as it does on the top! Also the frame is looking really solid Love it when I have good news to share!

My method for getting the insulation off: make random/criss cross cuts with a utility knife, then scrape/stab/pry out chunks with a mill file. I had read online to use a paint scraper but the ones I had on hand were too flimsy. I've also read moistening with water and/or acetone can help. It hasn't come to that yet, but I'm less than a quarter of the way done so we'll see!

I also began to waterproof skin seams on the interior with vulkem. The majority of my leaks are coming from around the ceiling vents though so it will be a whole new can of worms trying to get those uninstalled and replaced.

Happy renovating everyone!!
An oscillating tool with a smooth blade will make short work of this job.
Menards has the tool listed as their brand name "Master Force" ??? It is actually made by Makita.
It comes with a smooth blade (like a putty knife) rigid and strong.
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Old 01-15-2019, 12:07 PM   #28
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1968 26' Overlander
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Originally Posted by dbj216 View Post
You gotta love those California Airstreams. The trailers from the southwest always seem to be in better condition. There are tons of aluminum aircraft stored at Davis Monthan air force base in Tuscon. They are there for a very dry reason.

That spray on foam insulation was an idea that didn't last. It is a bugger to dig out from under the trailer. You'll get it one chunk at a time.

David
Yes! I have the full DMV history of owners (I think something like 12 came before me) and the trailer has spent its whole life in Arizona and New Mexico until now. Thank goodness for deserts!
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Old 02-04-2019, 01:53 PM   #29
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Progress..?

Not much to report on for these last few weeks. I'm still slowly scraping away at the foam insulation... Very, very difficult to get it all out of those small triangles of the frame at the front of the trailer. Plus it makes my neck sore! Thought you'd all appreciate this photo of an unsheathed (and subsequently broken and rusty) wire that had clearly been burning/melting through the foam insulation. Feeling lucky the insulation truly is somewhat fire retardant! It was very eerie to uncover, and makes me even more nervous about the prospect of trying to do electric work myself! So I called up Scotty of Artistic Airstreams in Concord, CA to see if they can do the electric and propane systems for me. My trust of Airstream dealers and restorers is understandably low and handing my trailer over to anyone else is difficult to convince myself to do. I hear they are highly regarded though, so fingers crossed!

I also dropped some dough on POR-15 products to clean and rustproof the frame. The front of the frame is definitely more rusty than the rear - which seems strange to me based on other people's posts.

Anyways progress is progress but boy does it go slowly.
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Old 02-25-2019, 01:17 PM   #30
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Update

Still making slow progress. I am still chipping spray foam insulation away and simultaneously prepping the frame for POR-15 with wire brushing. I have found several wasp nests (mud dauber) and more mice carcasses. I also have cactus spikes stabbing me every now and then as a testament to my trailer's desert past! I am not done with this very drawn out process yet because the furnace ducts run between the oval cut-outs in the frame crossmembers and have foam sprayed in all around them. I can't get those dang things out! I have made one very sloppy cut with an angle grinder (a new experience for me, being sprayed with sparks and metal debris) but it didn't help. Anyone have advice on this? The ducts run from the kitchen to the bathroom (~12ft) and are metal rectangles about three inches wide. I thought I could make two cuts and slide the whole segment out but its not flexible enough for that. I may just have to make cuts at every crossmember. Yikes.

More significantly I have removed the black water tank and the rotten subfloor that covered it. Now what? The metal box/case it sits in is VERY rusted and must be replaced. And of course I will have to order a new tank, which will be only for grey water. Ah I can already see that putting this thing back together will be monumentally slow.
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Old 02-25-2019, 01:34 PM   #31
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Stargirl , it’s just work . When you get ready to put your new tank in , see if it fits in the same area . If it does just take that old rusty cover to a sheet metal shop or an AC co. that does metal work . And they can make you a new one . If it’s a larger depth just tell them what you need . Man if you were closer , I could make you one in about 2 hours . Have fun and take one job at a time . It will not overwhelm you as much . Blue
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Old 02-25-2019, 06:13 PM   #32
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1966 24' Tradewind
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stargirl View Post
Still making slow progress. I am still chipping spray foam insulation away and simultaneously prepping the frame for POR-15 with wire brushing. I have found several wasp nests (mud dauber) and more mice carcasses. I also have cactus spikes stabbing me every now and then as a testament to my trailer's desert past! I am not done with this very drawn out process yet because the furnace ducts run between the oval cut-outs in the frame crossmembers and have foam sprayed in all around them. I can't get those dang things out! I have made one very sloppy cut with an angle grinder (a new experience for me, being sprayed with sparks and metal debris) but it didn't help. Anyone have advice on this? The ducts run from the kitchen to the bathroom (~12ft) and are metal rectangles about three inches wide. I thought I could make two cuts and slide the whole segment out but its not flexible enough for that. I may just have to make cuts at every crossmember. Yikes.



More significantly I have removed the black water tank and the rotten subfloor that covered it. Now what? The metal box/case it sits in is VERY rusted and must be replaced. And of course I will have to order a new tank, which will be only for grey water. Ah I can already see that putting this thing back together will be monumentally slow.


Stargirl

What you are doing is very hard work and you are doing a great job. What I had to do on my 66 Tradewind was similar but not as hard because I didn’t have to deal with the foam insulation. I suggest you look at my thread “Dan’s 66 Tradewind Improvements”. Start with post 69.

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This duct is not feeding air to the bathroom, but rather is a return air duct from it. The bathroom will heat better with the return duct but if you won’t be camping in real cold conditions, I don’t think it will make much difference if you don’t install it. Your call.

I believe the metal pan under the black tank was a terrible design. I don’t think it is necessary. I closed the top of the tank and installed a Curve porta potty. The black water tank is now only a gray water tank. I screwed the flange of the gray water tank to the bottom of the floor to support the tank. Here is a photo.Click image for larger version

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The last modification was to install a 1” ball valve in the outlet to help clean the streets when we leave the campground. Here is a photo.Click image for larger version

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I hope this information helps you.

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Old 02-25-2019, 07:55 PM   #33
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Hi from Colorado: TouringDan always brings back found and not so found memories of my old 66 Trade Wind. The foam insulation was a bad idea and other 68 owners have had to do the same job you are doing.

My trailer also had a broken toilet, a rotted subfloor, a broken black tank, and a rusty pan. Unlike TouringDan, I just replaced the whole mess. TouringDan likes to keep his trailer more original and very efficient.

I purchased new 27 gallon tanks, one each for black and grey. I hung the tanks from the frame rails and drain them out the side of the trailer with an easier way to connect the sewer hose. The tanks are surrounded with a new insulated aluminum pan that holds in the heat.

Then I rebuilt the bath to accommodate the new tanks. It looks nothing like the original bath, and does not have a tub.

My trailer also had cold air return oval ductwork underneath. I decided to run heat ducts under the trailer and to the new tanks and have heat registers in the floor. I didn't want ductwork to consume valuable storage space inside the trailer, thus the reason for underfloor heat ducting. The furnace sucks cold air from the interior of the trailer. Seemed to work okay.

There are lots of design options for you when the time comes. You have to make a detail plan of how your trailer will be configured before you start to assemble the thing. Press on regardless.

David
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Old 02-26-2019, 11:05 AM   #34
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Thank you!

Thank you David and Dan so much for the advice and pictures!! And Joyflea - I wish I was closer to you too!

I'm looking forward to reading all of your reno threads!
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Old 02-26-2019, 08:18 PM   #35
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Stay up all night reading our project threads. There will be a test next week.

TouringDan and Joyflea can build anything. Me, I putz. I do enjoy working on these old relics and getting them back on the road again.

David
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Old 03-18-2019, 02:25 PM   #36
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A small battle won

I have successfully removed all of the spray foam insulation! Boy did that take a minute. I also got the furnace ducting out with the help of an angle grinder and tin snips (see "1968 Furnace Ducts Removal" thread for more details). I am continuing to wire brush the frame to prep for POR-15 application.

I'm looking to pick up some books on RV/travel trailer electric systems (including brakes/running lights, 12V, 110V, and solar), any suggestions?

I'll also be (begrudgingly) beginning to work on the leaky windows (see "Leaking Corning-Philips 1968 Windows" for updates there). They are finicky and I absolutely dread breaking one. Airstreams are hard! Everyone on this forum is impressive!
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Old 05-01-2019, 11:48 AM   #37
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Removing Vents and Sussing Out a Floor Plan

I'm alive and working. I got all three ceiling vents out this past weekend thanks to the rivet removal tool from VTS. My method of getting to them was NOT OSHA (or mother) approved, but worked like a charm!

In other news I've been trying to decide on a floor plan. Laying tape out and pulling in old walls to get a better visualization on my ideas has been very helpful. I am still unsure on whether to move forward with converting to a mid-bath. I started a thread that has unfortunately not gotten any responses as of yet ("Tank Holding Compartments over the Axels - rear to mid bath conversion"). I have been on the hunt for people who have successfully done this conversion and have gotten back some good advice. Basically the short story is that I plan on using a composting toilet but have been warned I should install a black water system for resale value, and if I decide I'm not really a composting toilet kinda gal (though I'm honestly not worried). I'd plan to have the grey water tank in the back where the previous black water tank sat (underneath the rear bathroom) and would need to install a blackwater tank somewhere above the axels. My main concerns here are where the drain would go (between the wheels????), the best way to actually build a frame/compartment for a tank (though I do know VTS makes skinny enough tanks to be completely within the trailer frame ~4"), and how important insulating a black water tank is. If anyone reading this can share any wisdom I would be very appreciative.

With the vents out I am actually officially DONE with everything demolition! Geez only took me six months. From here on everything is looking up right? Right???
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Old 05-01-2019, 11:59 AM   #38
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OSHA approved or not- I like the scaffolding you made to access the vents. Be patient and celebrate the milestones. It's long process and you are doing well.
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Old 05-01-2019, 07:28 PM   #39
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Hi Stargirl: You are making progress making your trailer lighter weight : ). The fun begins when you start rebuilding.

Tanks, tanks and tanks. They are a very key component in your interior design. Finding a tank that will work for both the grey and black is a challenge. I'd refer you to Inca Plastics there in California. They have been molding RV water tanks forever. They have a big catalog of tanks available. I thumb through them until I find one that will work for me. By draining below the frame rails, you get about 3 1/2" additional drop to the tank and thus more capacity in gallons.

I'm going to cause you trouble. I installed new waste water tanks in my old 1966 Trade Wind. Two years older and two feet shorter than your Overlander. It is a rear bath layout. I elected to drain my new tanks BELOW the frame rails like modern Airstreams. It reduces ground clearance and upsets the purists among us. But it works. See the photo of the Trade Wind hook up with the "karbunkle" cover below the body. It is very good for scrapping dead racoons off the roadway. You can gain some ground clearance if you like when specifying your new axles.

Then see the photo of the wife's 1986 Limited. It has the same kind of below the frame rail drain system.

Then see the photo of a late model Airstream Bambi I saw in a campground. Wow, that drain connection is very low.

There are options for a mid bath waste water tank arrangement. It is just a bunch of work.

David
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Old 05-01-2019, 08:26 PM   #40
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Our '74 Sovereign drain comes out below the frame rails. I made a box to protect against road debris. The first box I built out of aluminum and it was hit by something hard enough to destroy it. At least it did its job of protecting the plumbing. This one is made of steel. The curved parts were cut from well casing.
After I put the door on I realized that it would be better protected if it closed to a point where it was slightly inside the box rather than overlapping it. At some point when I feel ambitious maybe I'll redo that part, or maybe I'll wait until something actually hits the door and I'm forced to fix it.
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