Widening door for wheelchair accessibility

[mefly2]

Originally Posted by access.air

Does the Eddie Bauer have less head space than other models? I have considered this trailer, but have been wavering on it as it is more money than I was hoping to invest-- especially because there are so many other (potentially expensive) modifications I would like to make. It totally depends on how much it would cost to modify the door to fit a ramp or lift on whether or not buying a newer EB makes more sense.

The hinge point on the rear access / cargo door is at window level. So, that dimension is the limiting factor ... it is just slightly lower that the arched side entrance door. But, with a ramp, you would be good to go without any further mods to the trailer, itself. There are also built in anchor points and a heavy duty ledge "step" just outside the rear door. As well, the modifications others propose might reduce the value of your AS; whereas keeping the EB stock should not lower the value any more than the normal depreciation. There have been (and I believe still are) several nice used EB27s listed periodically in the sidebars of this forum.

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by mefly2

As well, the modifications others propose might reduce the value of your AS; whereas keeping the EB stock should not lower the value any more than the normal depreciation.

I don't believe that it would be possible to retain a stock interior and still provide handicapped accessibility. The EB shell might be the best option for a starting point, though, as you suggest.

There are a number of mods that would be required (or at least desirable), to provide proper handicapped access, especially in the galley and bath areas. Changing the height of the galley countertop for seated access. Providing kneeholes under the countertop at the sink and cooktop so the wheelchair-bound can use them. Grab bars in the bathroom to facilitate getting out of a wheelchair and onto the toilet. Wet bath would be the preferred format to allow the toilet to be used as a shower seat. Increased width of the bathroom door to let a wheelchair through. Possibly relocating light switches and control panels. Swapping out any doorknobs with lever handles. Hold-open devices on all doors, coupled with automatic closers. Revised seating at the dining table. Maybe even relocating some of the hookups to make it easier for someone in a wheelchair to connect the shore power, water, and waste lines. Definitely a permanently installed macerator pump with a clear discharge hose on a power-retracting reel so that they don't have to deal with a slinky (which could be a real mess if trying it from a wheelchair), but maybe even the shore power cord and the fresh water line on power-retracting reels as well. Power awning, too. Better exterior lighting to illuminate the ramp or lift.

On the plus side, a properly-equipped handicapped-accessible Airstream trailer will have it's own high resale value to a specialty clientelle, despite— or perhaps because of— not being stock.

[Steve Bryant]

access.air,
What are your current thoughts on this project?

Steve

[Airtandem]

Have you checked with JC? I have heard that they will sell "shells" for modification. A local medical supply company was modifying one for a mobile medical office.

[Steve Bryant]

Airtandem,
Another lower-cost option would be to buy a used trailer and repurpose that trailer. That way, you'd still have appliances, water heater, and a bunch of other things that could be re-purposed or reused as is.

Steve

[access.air]

Thanks, all, for continuing to comment on this thread.

Steve, to give you an update on my current plans... I am currently seeking a 30+ foot vintage (likely from the 70's) Airstream, preferably with a rear bath, that would be a good candidate for a complete renovation. As I plan to make this trailer available to rent to people of all abilities, this means I need to have the door rebuilt, or a second door added, to be wide enough to accommodate individuals in different sized wheelchairs. I had initially stated I wanted to install a lift, though per others' suggestions and developing the plan further, a ramp-- requiring no electricity and being lighter weight-- will likely be the way I choose to go.

I am a designer, though not particularly skilled in carpentry or engineering, thus my reason for seeking out advice on others who have widened doors on Airstreams and who could assist me in this project. Uwe at Area 63 Productions is a great guy and has been extraordinarily helpful. He has successfully widened/reframed doors many times and, while expensive to have done, it is ultimately more affordable to alter an older trailer than to purchase a new/er Airstream. While trailers such as the Eddie Bauer (or even the old funeral coaches made in the 80's!) would be great options due to the already-wider doors, I am trying to do this project in the most cost-effective manner possible (it is more a labor of love than a huge money-making project! .

As most of the trailer will need to be altered in order to be accessible, the condition of the interior does not need to be pristine. It will likely be gutted, and hopefully the things I do not need can be repurposed, but I plan to use sustainable materials to complete the renovation-- and also hope to design the trailer so that it can be used off the grid. The most important part of this renovation is widening the door so folks can even get IN (which is why I was seeking input on this issue first), but of course I am taking into consideration that a complete bathroom renovation will be necessary, adjusting the placement of all light switches and electrical outlets, redesigning the kitchen so standing individuals and wheelchair users alike can effectively use the kitchen, and utilizing the space as smartly as possible so a wheelchair user has room to maneuver within the trailer-- and so there is plenty of living and storage space for 3-4 people.

The design is in the works and I am continuing to speak with people who might be able to help with the technical aspects of this renovation. I will definitely keep you posted as the project progresses! Thanks again.

[Airtandem]

You might also want to talk to physical therapists a rehab center and get their input I think that you have a great idea, but for YOUR use ONLY. There are alot of individuals that could benefit from your idea, but like I said, individuals. There are too many types of disabilities.
The other thing to consider; is who is going to pull the trailer and their skills, and most important, the LIABILITY. Lawyers would love you.
mike

[Zack_W]

I have loved reading this thread. I'm curious though, what would you charge for people to stay in a handicap Airstream? To others: What would you be willing to pay?

Thanks
Zack

[access.air]

Zack,
That's a great question. I wouldn't classify the Airstream as a "handicap Airstream," but rather, an Airstream that is being designed using the guidelines of Universal Design, making it accessible to a broad spectrum of people. People with disabilities and able-bodied people alike can enjoy the trailer.

While it is still in the works, the end result will be a modern, comfortable, stylish accommodation available to rent to anybody. I'm imagining somewhere in the $135-$150/night range (perhaps on the lower end of rental rates in the Bay Area, where I live). (This price would be for renting it on our property... I would likely eventually be willing to tow it to a local campground for renters as well, though there would be an additional fee for this.) Very curious to hear what others would consider paying, however.

Thanks for following this thread! Curious to know what piqued your interest.

[SantaCruzr]

I hope I am not to late to throw my two cents in. As a wheelchair user and a new Airstream owner I have kicked around a few ideas. What about making the rear a ramp door like the Eddie Bauer edition. Then you can renovate the bathroom to suit your needs. You can really open up the floor plan plus the wheelchair user does not have to make as many turns inside the trailer. Which takes more room than the width of the chair. Can't forget about turning radius. Please get back with me as I am in the process currently and I also live in Santa Cruz. What are the odds....

[Hollyhmc]

I am a full time wheelchair user (paraplegic) and it's all about how big/heavy the person is that's using the wheelchair and the wheelchair itself.
My wheelchair is a little over 24" wide (small to average for most full-time users) and we chose an Airstream because the doors are 26" wide.
We went to our local dealer and went in and out of all of the under 25' models (I use a telescoping light weight ramp that's actually 2 pieces that the tires fit in). Believe it or not, the 16' Bambi was the easiest to get around. The uncomplicated L-shape of the interior is pretty much barrier free and while getting in the bathroom is a tricky transfer, the toilet doubles as a shower seat. It's tight to turn around and when my husband, daughter, 2 dogs and I are all inside it's definitely cramped -- but it's completely do-able and a joy!

[propstrike]

Thanks to all who have contributed, my wife and I are keenly interested in those who have triumphed in this challenge. The spirit of adventure and the need to explore is even more important when facing such a life change.

SantaCruz, I would be interested in any lessons learned over the last year!

Holly, you look like you're having fun! Thank you for sharing your experiences. I never would have believed that smaller was better, before reading your post!

Access, any update on your project?

Thanks,
Kevin

[Ampman]

Check out the "Story Corps" Airstream touring the country. They have an very nice unit modified with a lift. Saw it in person when it was in Austin, Tx last month. That unit has been all over the place and really put to the test. Maybe they can give you the low down on the setup and reliability of their conversion.


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

[propstrike]

Thanks, Ampman- that's a great door they have!

[paml]

Originally Posted by access.air

I'm in the planning stages of purchasing & renovating an Airstream to be universally designed/accessible to people of all abilities. I'm planning to eventually make the trailer available to rent, but feel strongly about it being wheelchair accessible. I know this topic has been discussed over the years, but I'm wondering if anyone has specific recommendations for a shop in CA (or nearby) who would be able to widen the door and install a lift? (I know it is a difficult alteration to complete.) Any recommendations would be appreciated! Thanks so much.

I know a few years have passed but I was wondering where you were on this? We widened the door of our 1995 Airstream Land Yacht successfully for our handicap son. While the door was wonderful, we haven't come up with a light weight portable way to ramp in. We were able with his old wheelchair to use a 12 foot folding ramp, with supports underneath. His new wheelchair needs something more sturdy plus our knees are having trouble getting in and out of the steps. Does anyone have ideas?

[call-me-al]

Greetings all, I've been following this thread for some time now as my wife had a massive stroke 15 months ago and I began thinking of the problems of visiting friends, travel in general, host inconveniences etc. This what I'm in the process of doing and am open to suggestions and even laughter for my folly!
I found a toyhauler/ motocross utility trailer by Featherlite which seems to suit my purpose, so far. Featherlite is an all Aluminum well constructed trailer and I think it is key to start with a quality product. The trailer is 20 feet long with a 4 foot V in front making it a total of 24 feet long. The trailer consisted of two factory constructed rooms with a wide pocket door between.. (Key consideration, as my wife is in a wheelchair too!!) This particular trailer was created for the "DAYTONA BIKE WEEK" back in 1995 and has some amenities which I don't really need but came with the package. For example, in the 4 foot V, there is a power washer with an instant hot water heater with a propane tank and a 50' of hose on a retractable coil, a spare tire with mounting ( needed), a 4000 watt Kohler gasoline generator with a 15 gallon fuel tank (needed), the battery and electrical stuff for the lights and electrical outlets in the trailer etc. (needed and well done!). Not in the "V" but under the rear room there is an 80 gallon water storage area for the pressure washer to clean the motocross bikes etc. The front room of the trailer has a long bench with a long table (removable ) with storage drawers underneath, the "V" is squared off with an insulated wall with outlets and overhead storage cabinets, the wall opposing the bench has a huge cooler probably for beverages of choice and Ice, additional storage, outlets, and a small microwave. The side door is 36" and windowed with a screen, then the generator control panel on the other side of the door and then the wall between the rooms. The back room has 3 "aircraft" type ribs with adjustable connectors to attach the bikes going from front to rear, a rubberized floor over particle board or something similar, a "Craftsman" tool cabinet, overhead lighting and of course the rear fold down diamond plated door. I forgot to mention the front room has overhead lighting and an air conditioner on the roof. There is also another window opposite the door with a screen.
Everything is in good shape (so far) and this is the verbal description of the project.
This is where I am in my project.
I found a soft/spongy spot on the floor of the rear room and I decided to repair it and as you've guessed it turned into a real project. I removed the entire rear room floor; the rubberized pad which was glued to the "wet" particle board which was screwed through the aluminum floor of the trailer. (THROUGH THE FLOOR)! so I ended up with a rear room with 400-500 screw leaks in the floor! (I'll wait until the laughter subsides!) The floor is relatively thick aluminum and can be walked on easily so the next step was to reseal and waterproof the floor. I went on line and found out how they seal holes in aluminum boats. They used blind rivets with marine grade sealant coating. So I bought a nice rivet gun and blind rivets and became an expert riveter! Then I started thinking, Is it really sealed and ready for a new floor? (I was thinking about a laminate floor, "PERGO" type or some such but the floor wasn't smooth as you can imagine so I decided to seal the already sealed floor with a truck bed spray in liner. ( which requires an aluminum primer coat for adhesion); this was done! It looked great. I was originally thinking of leaving the "aircraft ribbing" exposed and just laminate around them but then thinking it over and traveling "rough roads" I would probably have laminate all over the trailer, so scratch that idea. I ended up with 3 pieces of 3/4" plywood and routed out the grooves and formed the floor. I then placed some laminate flooring over top of the plywood which I am going to pin nail it to the plywood for stability. ( I have not done that yet) as I'm thinking I should have spar varnished the plywood before I placed the laminate. BUT since it's a floating floor, does it need it? This is where I am on my project. My goal is to create a moveable bedroom, toilet facility, and maybe some other amenities. I need some expert advice about kitchen and bath prefab options keeping in mind that nothing can be mounted underneath as the trailer sits only 18 inches above the payment. All thoughts are welcomed!

[SteveSueMac]

My only thought is good on you, call-me-al! Happy camping to you and your beloved!

[Reganzo]

[QUOTE=call-me-al;1829303]Greetings all, I've been following this thread for some time now as my wife had a massive stroke 15 months ago and I began thinking of the problems of visiting friends, travel in general, host inconveniences etc. This what I'm in the process of doing and am open to suggestions.

My wife had a massive stroke 17 years ago and is paralyzed on her right side and is unable to speak. In 2006 I rented a motor home and we went camping in Maine for a week. My wife came alive, and we bought a 1988 classic limited in 2007. In 2008 we sold our condo and put our furniture in storage and hit the road.

We spent 2 years traveling the country. We have since upgraded to a 2006 classic limited with a slide and we have never looked back. My wife can walk with my assistance and has learned how to use the steps to get in and out of our trailer. I use aluminum ramps to put her wheel chair(power) in the trailer while we travel and then use the ramps to get it out.

Air streaming has given us our lives back...

If you need to talk please feel free to pm me anytime


Regards,
Reganzo

[Isuzusweet]

As a person whose Grandmother suffered a severe stroke in 1969, given 3 days to live, only to survived 11 years, I have a small inkling of the incredible challenges you face.

My Grandfather took her on trips from England to all over the world in grand means of travel, like the QE2 to New York, by train to Toronto, then by train across Canada to us in Vancouver, to return to the UK by Concorde. Their determination to keep living and to enjoy life amazed us all.

To you all that are mobility challenged, to those who assist them to keep living, you have my admiration and utmost respect.

Cheers
Tony