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Old 12-27-2011, 11:50 AM   #15
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shell off then

well today I took the banana wraps off very simple just pop riveted on so no problem there, started really having a look at the rust problem and in reality i should take the back 4 ft of frame off and re-weld in and the front probably three foot and weld in, so I came to the reality that i really need to do a shell off! (although i was determined not to! but i will take Marzboys advice and just do it!) it will just make it all a bit easiér to do, so i've seen many framing pics for suring up the shell before lifting but any extra advice would be great, all of the bolts are out that hold the outriggers to the shell, across the front bolts are out but people talk of a hold down plate front and rear can anyone enlighten me? also i take it the rivets above the wheel well are the ones that hold the wheel guard on, once these rivets are removed will i be able to get the wheel wells out or do they go with the frame? any answers to these questions greatly appreciated, i would like to get it all sured up and ready to lift before i head on holiday on the 31st, many thanks,
Rich
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Old 12-27-2011, 01:46 PM   #16
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There is no enlightenment, resistance is futile, reinvent the wheel as clumsily as the rest of us! (cynical humor)

99% of the shell-to-channel caulk will yield & part when the lift effort occurs. I had corrosion, caulk and some paint weld the rear C-channel to the hold down plate, lifting the shell bent/sheared the 'attached to shell' channel when it lifted the floor & I walked back to look at it... oops. That area is usually well corroded after 40 years so take the time to ensure the back iron plate is truly loosened before jacking.

Everything should be self-evident with that first silly 5mm of lift.

Hold-down plates? Beware slivers of rivets left in place if the drill was slightly off center, you'll discover just how strong rivets truly are. >>BANG<<

Someone else will have to discuss metal wheel wells, I have the plastic kind that were sandwiched between floor and frame so the shell had to be lifted an extra 350mm to get clearance.
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Old 12-28-2011, 10:28 AM   #17
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any more opinions?

thanks Wabbiteer for the reply, I was up there today to do a tidy up before i go on holiday, i think it took me longer to clean all the muck out of my car afterwards than to actually take it all to the tip! if anyone else wants to wade in about the wheel wells it would be great as it's going to be quite the high lift if i can't get them out before hand, i see the front hold down plate but not the rear, if i have all the elevator bolts out at the rear will it lift?, i geuss the question really is where does this hold down plate attach to frame wise (not that there's much frame back there), also when i lift i will be lifting the C channel with the body right? as there is no floor for it to stick to, anyway the project will be on hold for a few wekks as i'm off to New Zealand! happy holiday's everyone.

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Originally Posted by Wabbiteer View Post
There is no enlightenment, resistance is futile, reinvent the wheel as clumsily as the rest of us! (cynical humor)

99% of the shell-to-channel caulk will yield & part when the lift effort occurs. I had corrosion, caulk and some paint weld the rear C-channel to the hold down plate, lifting the shell bent/sheared the 'attached to shell' channel when it lifted the floor & I walked back to look at it... oops. That area is usually well corroded after 40 years so take the time to ensure the back iron plate is truly loosened before jacking.

Everything should be self-evident with that first silly 5mm of lift.

Hold-down plates? Beware slivers of rivets left in place if the drill was slightly off center, you'll discover just how strong rivets truly are. >>BANG<<

Someone else will have to discuss metal wheel wells, I have the plastic kind that were sandwiched between floor and frame so the shell had to be lifted an extra 350mm to get clearance.
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Old 12-28-2011, 11:13 AM   #18
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Look below the front window, down near the belt line will be 2-3 rows of rivets. Those attach the shell to the front plate which is basically a verticle piece of steel coming up from that front crossmember of sorts. The back was bolted to a piece of flat stock welded between the frame rails. I replaced that on ours with a piece of C channel to provide a stronger means of bolting the rear of the trailer down. Meant less space in the bumper storage compartment but also meant I had about 5 feet of space to bolt the rear of the shell down instead of just the points where the shell met the main frame rails. You'll have to lift at least a foot to clear the front mounting plate, which is about what the wheel well is. I suppose you could brace the body at current height and remove the tires and lower the frame down slowly with jacks and set it on a couple dollys and roll it out if you're concerned about lifting the shell higher.
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Old 02-10-2012, 01:09 PM   #19
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lift off

well things have slowed down a bit here after getting back from New Zealand to negative temperatures, anyway i got a coach builder come and have a look at the frame and he also agreed it would be alot easier to do the work shell off so the next day i went and purchased some wood and within 5 hours the shell was off!, the owner of the barn i'm working in didn't think the beams would take the weight of the body but if I can lift an end solo i'm sure it wouldn't have been a problem had i done it that way i would have stuck two 6x6's through the widows and lifted it that way which would have been way easier, anyway it's done and i am glad that i did it as it's going to make everything that much easier, i would like to start polishing, i've done a couple of practice patches and it looks good!! but it's hovering around -10c at the moment so i'm not even going there!.


Anyway I took some photos but unfortunately not great ones
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The next on my list will be windows and insulation, i took the rear lights out to try and get some eu stamped replacements but am having trouble finding the right size to fit the cans, may have to end up with led replacements instead.
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Old 02-10-2012, 03:34 PM   #20
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well things have slowed down a bit here after getting back from New Zealand to negative temperatures, anyway i got a coach builder come and have a look at the frame and he also agreed it would be alot easier to do the work shell off so the next day i went and purchased some wood and within 5 hours the shell was off!, the owner of the barn i'm working in didn't think the beams would take the weight of the body but if I can lift an end solo i'm sure it wouldn't have been a problem had i done it that way i would have stuck two 6x6's through the widows and lifted it that way which would have been way easier, anyway it's done and i am glad that i did it as it's going to make everything that much easier, i would like to start polishing, i've done a couple of practice patches and it looks good!! but it's hovering around -10c at the moment so i'm not even going there!.


Anyway I took some photos but unfortunately not great ones
Attachment 150719

Attachment 150720

Attachment 150721

The next on my list will be windows and insulation, i took the rear lights out to try and get some eu stamped replacements but am having trouble finding the right size to fit the cans, may have to end up with led replacements instead.
Lookin good Mr.Green! I was wondering what you were up to. I lifted the shell myself. I used 2 floor jacks 4 bottle jacks and 4 jack stands. lifted slowly and repositioned many times then POP it was off. Now putting it down is a very different story... Great progress! I would make sure that the shell is leak proof before you add insulation. Just finished the windows, not my favorite chapter of my restoration. If you need pictures of the windows I can email you some. I am leak proofing now then I am using Prodex for insulation should be interesting. You should check it out looks like great stuff!
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Old 02-10-2012, 03:43 PM   #21
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Hi, mrgreen
It looks very good, Working on frame is the worse part of restoration , after that You see the progress.
Did You buy baufol insulation?
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Old 02-11-2012, 02:52 AM   #22
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Marzboy, i've been following your thread on windows as that is one of my sideline things i can do in the cellar whilst the weather is so cold, it looks as though the flat windows are butyl'ed in and then glazing bars snap onto the frame is that correct? i am waiting on Aircraft Spruce to send me the rivet remover and some Lexan( since Christmas!! but they are now on the way) so i can get the front corner windows out and replace them, any tips on getting the frames apart would be much appreciated as this has me a little worried! as for gaskets i'm hoping the shop that cuts the glass will have a massive selection of different gasket material (yeah right!) but hopefully they will have something. I lifted the the body with two floor jacks and two scissor jacks and in all honesty bacause the floor was out it was quite easy as you could see if it was binding anywhere.

Pawel, yes I am going to use the Baufol (thanks for the links) and also going to put the yellow insulation on top of that as this will be a commercial kitchen the less heat getting in from outside the better, i'm hoping to have the frame sand blasted and then i'll paint it myself then flooring/tank and undrbelly and then slip it back under and then the fun begins!! sounds easy!! i'm hoping to have it on the road by July if the weather plays along it should be possible! as alot will be done in the shop.
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Old 02-11-2012, 09:28 AM   #23
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Mr green your windows are a bit different than mine. I think that there a few threads on your windows. Check out the thread on major restorations. I think Zepaluminum has a step by step that looks pretty good. I think my windows are much more simple than yours. Good luck!
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Old 02-11-2012, 09:40 AM   #24
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I have to agree with ZEP on the interior skins not being all that structural. If you go with a different material like some sort of plastic I would put more rivets in there than Airstream did. I am starting to think AS made the interior panels intentionally loose so that they can adapt to the twisting and bending that the shell will see. Airplanes use the outer skin exclusively for structural support along with ribs and stringers and they are plenty strong, much stronger than an AS trailer. My Aerospace Engineering degree is telling me the interior skins don't do much for structure.

Perry

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I don't agree, although I certainly thought this was true for the first several years that I owned an Airstream. The wall panels may add a small amount of strength to the shell, but it is minimal. Take a look at how few pop rivets secure the inner walls and it will be apparent that they are not nearly as structural as the outside skins.

Further, in the 70s models (and maybe that includes 68 and 69) the ceiling panel sits in two channel extrusions and are only secured to the ceiling ribs with a few pop rivets at the ends and another six or so (depending on the length of the trailer) in the middle. The fact that the interior skins are one piece along their length does give them significant strength as a beam, so the attachment of the lower inner skin to the C-channel provides substantial vertical stiffness. Still, however, they are not attached with enough rivets to be really structural.

I wouldn't advocate going without interior skins, but they add only a small portion (certainly less than 25%) of the monocoque strength to the shell.

Dissenting opinions welcome, as always.

Zep
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Old 02-19-2012, 10:44 AM   #25
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O.k it's warming up a bit over here atleast during the day we are out of the negatives!, went and pulled out one of my corner windows out today which went well although i didn't expect vulcram to be so hard to break the seal! anyway got it out and there is a screw in each corner to hold the frame together which were well and truly rusted in so i thought i would just drill them out but whatever metal they are made of is really strong as my drills wouldn't touch them, anyway they finally snapped and i got the frame apart but will need to put screws going the other way on the frame for the rebuild as the rest of the screw is there to stay, i also took off the rear airstream letters and cleaned them up and gave them a paint, i don't know if it's correct or not but my rear letters are riveted on but the ones over the front window seem to have no rivets is that a correct assumption? anyway here's a photo of the ones i've re-painted, does anyone know what to do with the land yacht emblem, mine is in quite flaky condition and doesn't take well to a wire brush, may try sand blasting??
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Old 02-19-2012, 11:41 AM   #26
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Take a look at this thread. The letters should have two posts on the back, and are held in place with speed nuts. When the posts pull out of the letter, they sometimes leave a small hole in the face. I filled mine with JB Weld epoxy.

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Old 02-19-2012, 11:43 AM   #27
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Hi mrgreen,

I have a 67, and when we removed the inner skin, there were rivets attaching the tradewind plate to the outside skin. The rivets are on the inside of the OUTER skin (or they may have been screws, or whatever). Unless you're willing to remove the inner skin right there, it would be better to tape around the letters, get the crud off, and re-paint.

I don't know about the letters in the front...

Welcome to the world of repairing and airstream. We have a long job ahead of us too. I used to post a lot, but financial situation stopped our remodel cold, and I felt stupid posting with no progress. I think I'm back on here, because since 2004 a lot has changed. I'm almost losing my faith that we'll get it done, but with our house barely on the edge of foreclosure, maybe we trade living in our beloved house to living in the Airstream. That I could live with.
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Old 02-20-2012, 03:21 AM   #28
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thanks, I was just wondering what the original format for them was, i will go the re-rivet route as every letter has rivets and the body already has the holes i don't need to make more work for myself i already have enough!
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