Upgrading floor material in new Airstreams

[Bunkroom]

Tim- what's up with the floor?

[timzog]

Originally Posted by Bunkroom

Tim- what's up with the floor?

Just got a shipment from Wicks with countersunk solid rivets and my microstop countersink. I'll start practicing tomorrow with some scrap 1/8" sheet and also try a couple of methods for cutting. Will report back. I'm afraid that I am hijacking this thread with this idea so I'll probably post in the future in the Caravelle section in a thread I started there which is http://www.airforums.com/forums/f379...n-74611-6.html
I do appreciate all the great ideas and feedback but I don't want to divert too much from the original discussion.
Thanks,
Tim

[timzog]

Cut all the pieces for a aluminum floor. Only took 5 hours

[timzog]

Wanted to let you all know that I've finished 3/4 of my aluminum floor and it's significantly more solid than my original 5/8" plywood floor. I used sheet metal C channels and foam to build a torsion box system between the bellypan and 1/8" aluminum floor. I probably have used 500 rivets or more to hold it all together but now I look like Popeye I am still happy I am doing it even though it is probably adding a couple of months to my project. It would have been way easier to screw down wood but then my Caravelle wouldn't be special. The link is above if you feel like checking it out.
Tim

[Silverflames]

Looks great!

[timzog]

Here is my all aluminum floor. I left a few strategic access holes and used rubber grommets to run PEX through for the kitchen, bath sink, and hot water heater. The floor feels really solid and I think it will last a lot longer than wood even if something horrible happens like a major leak. It is attached with about a million rivets of different types depending on access. Whenever possible I used 1/8" countersunk buck rivets and where it will be covered by cabinetry I used 5/32" solid buck rivets. When I didn't have access, I used 1/8" countersunk pop rivets to attach to crossmembers and 3/16" Al pop rivets to attach to the main frame members. No one fastener is really strong, but I think the combination of all of them will be super strong. I will use 1/4" stainless bolts to attach the floor and the frame to the U channel around the perimeter and solid buck rivets to attach the floor to the U channel everywhere else.
Since it will be a wet bath, I am using the aluminum floor as the shower pan as well. I buck riveted (with sealant) some sloped angles to the bottom of the floor to slope the floor and attached a drain to the underside of the floor using countersunk buck rivets. The slope is just shy of 1/4" per foot to the drain but I could hammer it down a bit more if I need to.
Here are some pics of the last section of floor.








Tim

[Silverflames]

That is a work of art! Frackin amazing. Great work.

[jlckmj]

OK, Jim the new guy here. I am still looking for an AS and so far the only ones that I can afford have all needed floor work. That is why I am reading up on the subject. I will probably be in this boat soon.

I just read through this entire post, and this has probably already been brought up, but after reading about the bed liner and paint, the aluminum floor used as a shower pan etc.

Has anyone used a product called Redgard?

3-1/2- Gal. Waterproofing and Crack Prevention Membrane-LQWAF3 at The Home Depot

It is a paint on or roll on waterproofing membrane that is used on sheet goods in showers, or on floors, directly under the tile. I have used it and I am convinced it would work as a treatment over plywood for the floors.

Of course, keeping leaks from getting to it from above would be a must.

Jim
SE Wisconsin

[timzog]

Originally Posted by jlckmj

OK, Jim the new guy here. I am still looking for an AS and so far the only ones that I can afford have all needed floor work. That is why I am reading up on the subject. I will probably be in this boat soon.

I just read through this entire post, and this has probably already been brought up, but after reading about the bed liner and paint, the aluminum floor used as a shower pan etc.

Has anyone used a product called Redgard?

3-1/2- Gal. Waterproofing and Crack Prevention Membrane-LQWAF3 at The Home Depot

It is a paint on or roll on waterproofing membrane that is used on sheet goods in showers, or on floors, directly under the tile. I have used it and I am convinced it would work as a treatment over plywood for the floors.

Of course, keeping leaks from getting to it from above would be a must.

Jim
SE Wisconsin

Hi Jim,
Welcome to the forum. You will find tons of nice people here. I've read about people being very happy with other coatings on top of the flooring especially epoxy paint and it looks like the Redgard would provide a simple solution as well. From what I saw on my floor, the biggest problems came from water coming underneath the floor from the somewhat sketchy rear bumper design. This can be prevented by simply maintaining the sealant back there frequently or putting in some flashing.
Reading the forums, it looks like most older air streams (and even lots of newer ones) have some kind of floor rot. In some ways it could be better to buy one that had obvious rot since you'll get a better deal on it. If you buy one that claims no floor rot, it may have it anyway, but they'll ask more and you'll be rally pissed when you find it. You dont really know until you take out furniture or drop the bellypan. I thought for 2 months that I had a good floor until I removed the front water tank and stepped through the floor and removed the black tank and saw through the floor. Replacing the floor is tough, but doable, if you like projects like I do. I did it almost completely by myself and with a few more people it could be a lot faster. Then you can get rid of all the years of stuff that accumulated under the floor, check out and repair any problems with the frame, give the frame a durable coating, insulate, and feel confident with a solid foundation. Knowing the floor is rotten going in would save you all the disappointment of paying too much
I wish you the best of luck! Please share your journey on the forum. Misery loves company

[Bilo Hak]

Two years ago my 2005 CCD Intl. developed a soft floor immediately inside the entrance door. After several email exchanges, the Airstream factory "generously" agreed to look at it. They concluded the floor was damaged due to moisture and assumed no responsibility...even though they found a leak in the seal around the front Fan-Tastic fan. An option I paid extra for. Airstream gave me a quote to fix: $5,000; $600 of which was for materials. The remainder is for labor.

[susans69]

I am trying KoolSeal as a protectant for my plywood. Seems to work good so far. I removed all the pad and carpet which held the moisture in and put down vinyl roll flooring that does not need to be glued. That way I will always have access to the floor in case of an accident.

[sandpyper]

June 2013...is Airstream still using "regular" ply for its floors...and by that I include outdoor plywood? not a waterproof material? still? Does anyone know if they have changed materials in the last few years? Thanks

[Wazbro]

Originally Posted by Alex Pyper

June 2013...is Airstream still using "regular" ply for its floors...and by that I include outdoor plywood? not a waterproof material? still? Does anyone know if they have changed materials in the last few years? Thanks

After Airstream's blunder of switching to particle board in the mid 80s Airstream thinks you should be grateful they upgraded back to plywood.

[sandpyper]

Originally Posted by Wazbro

After Airstream's blunder of switching to particle board in the mid 80s Airstream thinks you should be grateful they upgraded back to plywood.

Right!

Am considering a used Airstream purchase.

Does anyone know what year the particleboard was changed back to plywood?

Did all models/lengths get ply vs particleboard in the same year?

Thanks

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by Alex Pyper

June 2013...is Airstream still using "regular" ply for its floors...and by that I include outdoor plywood? not a waterproof material? still? Does anyone know if they have changed materials in the last few years? Thanks

It's still plywood, not the toxic underground exposure stuff. The problem really isn't about the floor material, it's about water leakage. They're getting better at sealing in recent models years, but they'll never remain water tight.

With regular inspections of the plywood subfloor and prompt repair of water leaks, it will last indefinitely.

doug k

[Gene]

This is what they were using a year or 2 ago:

"Plywood Flooring—Travel Trailers
Airstream currently uses plywood flooring on all products.
The flooring is Sturd-I-Floor (APA), Exposure 1, with WPB (water and boil proof) type bonding adhesive.
The flooring is 19/32” (5/8”), tongue and groove.


"Bond Classification
Exposure 1 panels have a fully waterproof bond, WPB (weather and boil proof), and are designed for applications where long construction delays may be expected prior to providing protection, or where high moisture conditions may been countered in service. Exposure 1 panels are made with the same exterior adhesives used in exterior panels. However, because other compositional factors may affect bond performance, only exterior panels should be used for permanent
exposure to the weather.

"Plywood Glue Bond: Durability Classification
· All APA trademarked plywood has a 100% fully waterproof glue line.

"American Plywood Panel Bond Durability Classification
Exposure 1 Plywood manufactured with the same fully waterproof glue as used in Exterior plywood, these panels should only be used in applications where their ability to resist moisture and weather during long construction delays is required prior to them being protected.

"Summary— Exposure 1 rated plywood uses the same bonding adhesive as exterior plywood. Exposure 1plywood is designed to use in humid conditions and will tolerate getting wet for prolonged periods of time."

I think it was only for a few years about 10 years ago they used OSB and it was only on the cheapest trailers. Others will know more. I don't know when they started using the Exposure 1 rated plywood. When I exposed our subfloor, all the info was apparently on the bottom-down side, so I couldn't tell.

I think they can be made as water tight as a car or truck if they are willing to do it right.

Gene

[Wazbro]

Does anyone know what year the particleboard was changed back to plywood?

From what I've read they started changing back to ply in 93 with high end, longer trailers and gradually (over years) switched back to ply. My parent's 93 34' still had particle board.

[sandpyper]

Originally Posted by Gene

This is what they were using a year or 2 ago:

"Plywood Flooring—Travel Trailers
Airstream currently uses plywood flooring on all products.
The flooring is Sturd-I-Floor (APA), Exposure 1, with WPB (water and boil proof) type bonding adhesive.
The flooring is 19/32” (5/8”), tongue and groove.


"Bond Classification
Exposure 1 panels have a fully waterproof bond, WPB (weather and boil proof), and are designed for applications where long construction delays may be expected prior to providing protection, or where high moisture conditions may been countered in service. Exposure 1 panels are made with the same exterior adhesives used in exterior panels. However, because other compositional factors may affect bond performance, only exterior panels should be used for permanent
exposure to the weather.

"Plywood Glue Bond: Durability Classification
· All APA trademarked plywood has a 100% fully waterproof glue line.

"American Plywood Panel Bond Durability Classification
Exposure 1 Plywood manufactured with the same fully waterproof glue as used in Exterior plywood, these panels should only be used in applications where their ability to resist moisture and weather during long construction delays is required prior to them being protected.

"Summary— Exposure 1 rated plywood uses the same bonding adhesive as exterior plywood. Exposure 1plywood is designed to use in humid conditions and will tolerate getting wet for prolonged periods of time."

I think it was only for a few years about 10 years ago they used OSB and it was only on the cheapest trailers. Others will know more. I don't know when they started using the Exposure 1 rated plywood. When I exposed our subfloor, all the info was apparently on the bottom-down side, so I couldn't tell.

I think they can be made as water tight as a car or truck if they are willing to do it right.

Gene

Thanks so much. Very helpful.
Love the airstream but wonder if one piece aluminum roof not a better way to go....Safari Condo small trailers from Quebec are constructed like this. Aluminum floor and frame too...and no particleboard cupboards, all aluminum.