Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-17-2012, 08:42 AM   #99
4 Rivet Member
 
timzog's Avatar
 
1980 20' Caravelle
Ogden , Utah
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 422
Blog Entries: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunkroom
Tim, good idea. So, you will actually lose floor thickness relative to the old floor but head height will be the same and all of your interior "walls", etc will fit the same? How will you re-attach the shell to your new floor?
When I removed the shell I left the C channel on the shell. 70% of it is just a U that can bolt directly to the floor. The other 30% of the channel (on the sides) had a lip that went under the floor too. I may either cut off the lower lip or put a shim on top of the floor at the edges that would get me back to 5/8". I don't know if the extra 1/2" of headroom is worth the trouble. My interior skins were lost in a previous life so I have to refabricate them anyway.
__________________

__________________
timzog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2012, 11:21 AM   #100
tpi
Rivet Master
 
2005 25' Safari
Trabuco Canyon , California
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 866
Images: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
Exactly, and that's the problem with this thread.

Plywood won't rot if it isn't wet, and if it does get wet it won't rot if found early. Inspect and maintain your Airstream regularly, that's the easy solution.

doug k
My thought is sealing these trailers for a lifetime is impossible. They will leak at some point. Surely the factory needs to do their best to seal them properly with long lasting sealants and good quality control.

But the riveted design, the flexing over time, the roof plastics and mounting points, is basically a leak waiting to happen. The best quality control can only go so far, with all the holes in these trailers there's lot of quality to be controlled. Minimizing sealed seams and holes would be another desirable quality goal.

Minimizing maintenance tasks is a good goal for any RV manufacturer. Most RVs in my storage lot are rarely used or maintained. I have friends who would be interested in RV but are put off by low quality and needy maintenance standards. They don't want to get involved with it.

At a reasonable cost I think most would welcome a floor more rot resistant. An option upgrade would make all happy. Those who like the current plywood could have it.
__________________

__________________
tpi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2012, 12:05 PM   #101
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawas"
 
ROBERT CROSS's Avatar

 
2003 25' Classic
Zanadude Nebula , WNY
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 11,153
Images: 1
Thumbs up

I'd be satisfied with BS1088A...marine grade PW.

Bob
__________________
PFC.....

“After all these years the reason I continue to love Thanksgiving.....I still sit at the kids table.”
RLC

Sandra wanted to go to Cleveland on vacation,
but I’m the Husband, so we went to Cleveland.
RLC
ROBERT CROSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2012, 12:31 PM   #102
Rivet Master
 
danlehosky's Avatar
 
2012 25' FB Flying Cloud
Gig Harbor , Washington
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 780
Gene, the floor planks you use. You mention they expand and contract. How do you keep dust and dirt from falling into the cracks and them sticking to the glue? Is there a top floating lip that covers this joint?
__________________
TAC
Hope is not a plan.
danlehosky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2012, 05:54 PM   #103
Rivet Master
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,840
Do airplanes have leaky rivets? If not, why can't Airstream?

Can rivets be avoided? I know they are part of the tradition, but can bolts be used that seal tighter and look like rivets on the outside?

Many roof penetrations can be avoided with 2 sided tape. The good stuff is really strong.

Better seals everywhere.

And, make it easy to replace seals when their lifetime has expired.

It doesn't have to leak until it is a generation old.

Gene
__________________
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2012, 08:28 PM   #104
4 Rivet Member
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Phoenix , Arizona
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 470
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aage View Post
...and yet, vinyl in sheet form or tiles has been used in AS and other makes of trailers for years and years. Is there any documentation that this habit has caused problems?
I'm glad that Avion used sheet vinyl in my C-11 camper. It sat in my back yard for 25-30 years and it had been at least 15 years or so since I had been in it when I discovered the back vent lid had deteriorated and almost disappeared. During rain storms, the floor was wet and some of the cabinet wood was ruined, but the floor and structural wood was saved by the sheet vinyl. The minimal cabinet wood that need to be replaced was easy to do. Replacing the structural wood is not something that I really would want to do.

Notice the ugly, discolored floor. It may be ugly, but it appears to have protected the structural wood under it.

The originl vinyl floor is being replaced by Armstrong sheet vinyl with a 20 year warranty.
__________________
M2HB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2012, 08:37 AM   #105
4 Rivet Member
 
timzog's Avatar
 
1980 20' Caravelle
Ogden , Utah
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 422
Blog Entries: 20
Another problem with the Airstream Floor

As mentioned before, and I agree wholeheartedly, it is important to try and prevent water from getting to the floor. The design of the floor in my 1980 Caravelle is problematic since it relies on a sealant on top of the bottom belt line. The curved banana skin is outside of the banana wraps so any water inside the trailer goes into the belly pan and any failure of the belt line sealant results in direct entry to the floor and belly pan area. Here is a sketch of the original design in my Caravelle and one possible solution. If a Z shaped flashing was attached to the floor and the banana wrap attached on the inside of that, it seems like there would be less water intrusion. I could also put some small holes in the outside bottom of the U channel to direct water from between the skins to out past the banana wrap. It looks like some of the older Airstreams have the outer skin outside of the banana wrap which seems like a good idea, but I see how that could make construction harder.
Tim
Click image for larger version

Name:	cross section2.jpg
Views:	253
Size:	579.9 KB
ID:	161283
__________________
timzog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2012, 10:23 AM   #106
Rivet Master
 
Gene's Avatar
 
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 10,840
Tim, your proposed design is much better and akin to the way new houses are now sealed.

Gene
__________________
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2012, 01:06 PM   #107
4 Rivet Member
 
timzog's Avatar
 
1980 20' Caravelle
Ogden , Utah
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 422
Blog Entries: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene View Post
Tim, your proposed design is much better and akin to the way new houses are now sealed.

Gene
There is just one minor problem of figuring out how to bend that channel around the curves!! It is really easy to draw, though.
Tim
__________________
timzog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2012, 01:44 PM   #108
Rivet Master
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,313
Images: 4
European Airstreams come with an aluminum honey-comb sandwich floor and a galvanized chassis. Over five years ago I asked Airstream why this specification was not used in the USA. You can read the communications here:
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f206...sit-31208.html

Nick.
__________________
Nick Crowhurst, Excella 25 1988, Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Diesel. England in summer, USA in winter.
"The price of freedom is eternal maintenance."
nickcrowhurst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2012, 02:02 PM   #109
2 Rivet Member
 
1968 26' Overlander
Duluth , Minnesota
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 93
Tim, great drawings. Will you put the inner skin in the drawing, too. I think you would want to have it inboard of the u-channel but outboard of the inner leg of the z-flash. Apparently many leaks track down the inner surface of the inner skins? If you could trap this water with the Z and take it out over the z to outside that would be great.

I hope you do not mind, I took the liberty of suggesting a few additional details on your drawing by marking on it and scanning it.

Yes, difficult to make curved z-flash out of aluminum, but not impossible.

What about notch bending two pieces of aluminum angle (see image) and using flex wrap (like used to flash window sills in houses) to tie them together on the corners?

How about sealing the z-flash at the floor surface on the interior as well. This way, any water coming in on top of the floor (leaky skylights, vents, beer, etc. would be prevented from getting to the edges and underneath the floor material?

I think putting perforations in the U-channel to let water out at the outboard angle is a great idea, too.

No reason you couldn't still put the beltline back on is there? (just for decoration)

If there is a was a good way to vent the belly pan to keep it dry that would be great. It is a little like a crawlspace in a house with constant moisture from below. Maybe if there were some vents front and rear/side of the belly pan, air would actively move through there while under tow?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	CIMG1363.JPG
Views:	81
Size:	36.0 KB
ID:	161297  
Attached Files
File Type: pdf More Leak Proof Design?.pdf (239.5 KB, 38 views)
__________________
Bunkroom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2012, 03:45 PM   #110
Rivet Master
 
mefly2's Avatar
 
2015 25' FB Eddie Bauer
Western , ** Big Sky Country ** Montana
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,283
Quote:
Originally Posted by danlehosky View Post
I also remember behind the sheds we had vats of creosote and they soaked virtually everything that went into a boat in this solution. ...Dan
Wouldn't EPA h ave a tizzy fit?
__________________
mefly2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2012, 05:34 PM   #111
2 Rivet Member
 
1968 26' Overlander
Duluth , Minnesota
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunkroom View Post
Tim, great drawings. Will you put the inner skin in the drawing, too. I think you would want to have it inboard of the u-channel but outboard of the inner leg of the z-flash. Apparently many leaks track down the inner surface of the inner skins? If you could trap this water with the Z and take it out over the z to outside that would be great.

I hope you do not mind, I took the liberty of suggesting a few additional details on your drawing by marking on it and scanning it.
Leaks track down the outer surface of the inner skins, between the layers.

.pdf attachemnt does not show on mobile version?
__________________
Bunkroom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-18-2012, 05:38 PM   #112
2 Rivet Member
 
1968 26' Overlander
Duluth , Minnesota
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by M2HB View Post
I'm glad that Avion used sheet vinyl in my C-11 camper. It sat in my back yard for 25-30 years and it had been at least 15 years or so since I had been in it when I discovered the back vent lid had deteriorated and almost disappeared. During rain storms, the floor was wet and some of the cabinet wood was ruined, but the floor and structural wood was saved by the sheet vinyl. The minimal cabinet wood that need to be replaced was easy to do. Replacing the structural wood is not something that I really would want to do.

Notice the ugly, discolored floor. It may be ugly, but it appears to have protected the structural wood under it.

The originl vinyl floor is being replaced by Armstrong sheet vinyl with a 20 year warranty.
Please post some more photos when you remove the old vinyl. It will be very surprising if the plywood below does not show signs of water damage. Just in this photo there are at two perforations in the flooring and plywood. The water had to go somewhere. I doubt it sat on the floor and then evaporated away back up through the skylight.
__________________

__________________
Bunkroom is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.