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Old 01-10-2007, 06:13 AM   #15
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TIG/Stick!

Jim,

I'm sticking with Smuzz on this one (no pun intended). TIG!

The reason that your coworkers stick weld is because they work outside. I was taught that MIG outside is a no-no, mainly because the shielding gas is not effective in the wind. Additionally, most portable welding units are stick for this reason.

I'm confused about several of Doorgunners statements. First about MIG welding 4130. Isn't that chromemoly tubing? NHRA says TIG only for this process. I am not familiar with airplane construction however. Additionally, I thought 7014 was the idiot rod?

Here's my thought - TIG is king because:
If stick can do it - so can TIG. If MIG can do it - so can TIG. But not vise versa.

If you buy the Stick/TIG combo you will have the best of both worlds. Use the stick to weld the frame (they can do a beautiful job as stated by others and it's faster than TIG) and you will be able to TIG your special projects in the future.


Happy shopping Jim - I hope this helps.

Best Regards,
Henry
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Old 01-10-2007, 07:55 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axleman
Jim,
If you buy the Stick/TIG combo you will have the best of both worlds. Use the stick to weld the frame (they can do a beautiful job as stated by others and it's faster than TIG) and you will be able to TIG your special projects in the future.
I agree. While you are gaining experience a tig machine will allow you to to do small, precise welds better than mig. The more so since you have already gotten used to an oxy/acet rig and using a tig torch is very similar to welding oxy/acet.

Another reason is that a tig/stick machine with all the apparatus is going to be spendy. So get yourself a machine that will do anything you ever want to do. If in the future you decide that a mig machine is in order you can buy one pretty inexpensively relative to the tig machine.
Whatever you do ( if you go tig) get a torch that is water cooled.
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Old 01-10-2007, 08:29 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottanlily
doorgunner ,you crack me up on "some stupid rod 6011 ",very good ,or even
stupider 6013 ,also works well ,but I agree on the stupid 6011,works good .
Scott
Scott, I had to laugh. I've heard one even "stupider"; calling a 6011 an "eleven-oh-nine"!

Jim, I find myself in agreement with most others here - if you're going to build a car with chrome-moly tubing, you're talking yourself into a TIG with a constant amperage power supply! Have fun. (I'm a little jealous - haven't welded anything in 15 years, and I'd love to have a 225 box in my garage. Only problem is I learned with MIG, and find stick challenging except for stainless - that flows beautifully!)
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Old 01-10-2007, 10:40 AM   #18
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Henry yup 4130 is chro mol. The NHRA doesn't have jack to say about Experimental Aircraft. They have their own rules to live by.Having said that I have looked at some homebuilt aircraft- tube and rag construction-that looked like Hellen Keller welded then together.I myself would stick or mig a frame, tig a race car and mig and tig an aircraft. It all works My statement about not tiggin a frame- who wants to spend that much time on the ground.Get er done, I would also suggest reading the books by Richard Finch - Performance welding. The EAA has a few pubs on welding lots of oxy-act stuff. I have an old solar mig, a henrob and a Lincoln square wave 175 tig. It all works good luck. Tim
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Old 01-10-2007, 12:05 PM   #19
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Old 01-10-2007, 05:57 PM   #20
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Henrob is Dillon Mk III, been driving me crazy all day! I remembered tho.My recommendation for 4130 chrome molly if you need tig precision welds is to purchase a torch from Hi-Tech Welding in El Cajon Ca. Check out the HT-9F-12RSFLDH with the HT-9GL kit. I really like this torch allows to get into very tight areas. The JB weld would be great for a crack above the door as long as your running gear is balanced.
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Old 01-10-2007, 08:35 PM   #21
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probably gonna go tig/stick

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all the responses. I'm leaning toward getting a tig/stick machine. The purchase agent where I work hooked me up with his welding rep, who is offering to give me the super industrial discount. That actually amounts to a lot, like 25%. I talked to a buddy of mine last night who is an excellent welder. Then in conversing with you all, and talking to some other guys, I'm going to try for the Lincoln Precision Tig 275. If I can't afford that one, then I'll probably get the Precision Tig 225. In addition to the tig process, both machines offer a 275 amp or 225 amp stick welder capability as well. I'll stick the trailer frame together, more than likely. Yes, I'd be forever tigging it together, but I should be good at it by the time I'm done

I think a mig would be superb for this application. But in balance, I think a combo tig/stick machine would do me better in the long run.

And yes, I had to laugh my head off at the "stupid rod" and "stupider rod." Doorgunner and Scott, you guys hit way too close to home on that one My 6013 welds look professional all the way. My 6010 5P welds don't look so pretty. My 7018 welds don't look too bad. My 6010 vertical up looks like somebody blew their nose on the plate. I need more practice

So, what rod do you recommend? Can I do a decent job with 6013? Or do I need to use a deep penetrater like 6010? Or would 7018 or 7016 be the way to go? What about the jetrod? I forget the number...70-something. Supposed to flow like butter. 7024 maybe? I'm either going to use 36ksi steel or maybe 50ksi steel. So an E60 rod should be fine. Any advice?

I really do like the precision afforded by tig for fine work. I have an old Enfield action that I'm building a custom rifle on. It's a 1917 Winchester made action, and they had a big hole milled in the aft upper portion for the old receiver sight to fit. I needed to fill that hole in and grind to the contour of the rest of the receiver so I could drill and tap for scope mounts. We did it using tig and it turned out beautifully. After grinding and polishing, you can't tell there was ever a hole there. Could never have done that with stick or mig.

That being said, I've heard that Henrob makes really nice gas torches. that's what my best bud was talking about buying to weld up the 4130 tubes for his Bearhawk bushplane. If I got an oxy-fuel rig, that was what I was looking at for fine work. I'll probably still get one for cutting and general stuff. May just get a Victor torch to start with.

But anyway, I'd like to have a shop full of this stuff. But I think I'll probably start with as big a tig/stick machine as i can afford.

I'll keep you all posted.

On the subject of frames, I saw some pictures that Boatdoc had of the frame he made for his Argosy. He made a brand new frame completely out of stainless steel. It is absolutely beautiful! My hat is off to him! His job is the gold standard I could never hope to achieve. I just hope my humble carbon steel frame and Por-15 will last another 40 years. I'll be happy then
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Old 01-10-2007, 10:09 PM   #22
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Sorry to hijack but, Door gunner you have interested in the torch you are talking about I found there website but had couldn't find any product just services. I always like new toys especially tools. I priced a new torch for my tig yesterday it needs replaced. If you don't mind I would like to see some details. Thanks
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Old 01-10-2007, 10:22 PM   #23
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Hey Smuzz- I just looked at their web. no mention of products for sale. I purchased my torch about 5 years ago from them, maybe they have farmed out that part of their business. Try giving them a call tomorrow, I'ld be interested in what they say.It is a sweet handpiece, has a slight angle away from your hand into the thumb ( for right handers).I'll see if I can find out more tomorrow when I'm at the airport. Tim
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Old 01-10-2007, 10:29 PM   #24
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Thanks. I noticed the glass nozzle on most of there pieces in the pictures. That is a real nice addition to anyone who hasn't tryed them reading here.

I filled out there form to get information if you can't come up with anything. I will wait till it get in and check it out.
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