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Old 01-14-2007, 02:55 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Aerowood
I really like the stacked frame rails, they should stiffen up the the frame considerably. Are your outriggers tapered down to the original frame height so your corner banana wraps still fit, or are you making new? looks like a very well equipped shop. I wish we had the welding equipment you have access to. I am envious
Hi Aerowood; You sure have picked up on that. 2x6" rectangular tubing in 0.90" thickness would most likely allow end frame sag, through sectional deformation under load. Al thought there is added weight by using two stacked up tubes, strength is more important at this point than 30 lbs of weight. Two 2x3"s tie the vertical cross section into much stronger support. The two tubes are stitched on both sides with 3/4 long stitch every 6". Al thought not very visible in pics, there is a 1x1" square tube of 0.125" wall thickness, welded diagonally as a anti sag brace on the outrigger side of the frame. Forward end is welded into a 1/4" axle mounting plate at top side right behind the rear wheel, and it drops down to the bottom of frame at the back. This brace is stitched as well every 6" at top and bottom. Old frame was 5" the new one is 6" therefore I will use new banana wrap. Straight runs will be formed over 6" heavy wall PVC pipe. Corner banana wraps will be new. All banana wraps will overlap the belly pan. 1/16" slits will be cut in, in the straight runs of the banana wrap to provide drainage. Same will apply to the belly pan. Rear end of belly pan will have 1x6" opening protected by SS screen where a 6" drum fan will provide air exchange. Draw is 0.17 Amp. This fan will equalize belly pan temps with those outside thus preventing condensation. As to my equipment, this is a 40 year collection. What you can see in the pics does not even represent the tip of an iceberg. I will keep everyone posted during the progress. Thanks, "Boatdoc"
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Old 01-14-2007, 03:07 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Fyrzowt
Nice work, I'm impressed!
Be careful, when you get to the interior work, Doorgunner will be contacting you about doing some carbon fiber work.
Dave
Hey Dave; How did you know my interior will be made of foam filled carbon? "Boatdoc"
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Old 01-14-2007, 03:58 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by tphan
boatdoc- you have just re-set the standard for shell-off restorations so high that I think it will be a long time before anyone else takes it to a more beautiful, functional level- this is a project I want to follow!!! Nice work!! What are your plans for shell/interior renovation, if any?? -tim
Hi Tim; I am certain that many Air streamers will hate me for not keeping it original. There is only two of us me and my angel wife, Margaret Kay. I have no intentions to suit someone else's needs or renting it out. Therefore the interior will be hardly recognizable sorry. Front end will have a new three sectional wrap around gaucho. It will start from right side of the door and continue around to the fridge on the opposite side, which is about even with left side of the door. Oven goes out, I will not let my wife bake a turkey while camping. Three burner SS Stowe top will be installed to the left of the door. Double sink will be past that, with section of SS counter top between them. Heater will be under the Stowe top. Gray tank will sit on the floor under the sink. Black tank will be sunk into the floor at the back. It will be side drain which will go forward first behind the rear tire but inside the belly pan, and it will exit through banana wrap. Tub will be in the original place which is on back roadside. Trap will be inside the belly pan including the plumbing, which will be pumped back from the tub, up to the gray tank above floor. Gray tank will be used to flush the black tank. No plumbing will be visible on the interior. Discharge from gray tank will be also inside the belly pan with discharge valve under the sink. Overhead cabinets above the street side wheel well, will not be reinstalled in order to make a clear passage way to the bathroom when pull out bed is extended. There will be 22" wide walkway between the fender housing and bed to the rear, while the bed is opened up. Pull out bed will be made of light weight aluminum frame and SS wire and spring platform. It will be anchored over the curb side fender well. Two 32" wide mattresses will be placed side by side when the bed is set up. Day time they will be stacked up providing additional place to lay down and rest while occupying only 32" space in width. Electrical panel will be inside the rear closet at curbside. All of vent piping will be hidden inside the closet, which will get rid of ugly vent pipes on the interior. Overhead cabinets will remain in place on the curb side of the interior. Bathroom entry way will be a custom hanging curtain. The whole idea is to make the interior as roomy as possible. We do not need so much storage for the two of us, and that is the reason for the modifications. As the song goes-- you cannot please everyone, so you have to please yourself. Sorry if this will get some of you upset. Thanks, "Boatdoc"
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Old 01-14-2007, 09:05 AM   #18
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Are you going to run SS brake line just in case you decide to use discs in the future? I would also like a conduit from the tongue to the 120 panel. You could run a gen set or inverter from the TV if you wanted to run air while towing. It looks really nice! Wow!
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Old 01-14-2007, 07:37 PM   #19
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Awesome!

I'm so impressed. This is going to be around in 100 years. If you EVER decide to sell it call me! PLEASE!

The only thing I'm not clear on is the furnace. Living in Virginia I hardly ever use mine, but when I did need it for 2 weeks earlier in the season I was appalled at how much propane it uses and how poor the quality of the heat is - talk about blowing hot and cold!

If I were as ambitious and capable as you, and rebuilding one from the ground up, I believe I'd try to build something with radiant heat coming up through the floor. I seem to remember seeing a thread where someone used a regular water heater, a circulating pump and homemade radiator or two. I believe that concept would also work with pex under the floor.

Anyway I'm just blown away with your frame. Great safety idea for the jack points, and the fans, and the mouseproofing. The extra depth should give it a bit more rigidity as well as lots of strength. How much will it weigh compared to the original?

Paula
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Old 01-14-2007, 08:26 PM   #20
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Doc, the plywood on the floor, isn't that sign substrate?
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Old 01-15-2007, 04:27 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Phil Gobie
Are you going to run SS brake line just in case you decide to use discs in the future? I would also like a conduit from the tongue to the 120 panel. You could run a gen set or inverter from the TV if you wanted to run air while towing. It looks really nice! Wow!
Hi Phil; Many of you think that disc brakes are the inn thing. I have opted for 2"x12" drum brakes and I have my reason for that which I rather not post because it will create a point of argument with some members. There is noting wrong with drum brakes providing you are not parking on the grass.
If you must, place 2'x8' sheet of plywood or a tarp under wheels. Dew is the enemy of brakes. We have experimented with it for years on two of my trailers with much success preventing greately reducing the brake component corrosion.
As for the conduit, it is already in place with 10Ga Marine shielded wire in place. All other wiring is inside a very thin wall conduit tack welded to the frame. All brake wires are in a SS conduit as well. Wherever wires cross the frame a 0.125" SS crossover tube is welded in on both sides of the frame so that integrity of the frame is not compromised. All 3/8" SS gas lines will be located under curbside outriggers with a one main shut off up front and one shut off for each appliance, accessible from outside. Drain cocks to the outside of belly pan on all plumbing lines, will be installed to ease the process of winterizing. Thank you, "Boatdoc"
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Old 01-15-2007, 04:55 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foiled Again
I'm so impressed. This is going to be around in 100 years. If you EVER decide to sell it call me! PLEASE!

The only thing I'm not clear on is the furnace. Living in Virginia I hardly ever use mine, but when I did need it for 2 weeks earlier in the season I was appalled at how much propane it uses and how poor the quality of the heat is - talk about blowing hot and cold!

If I were as ambitious and capable as you, and rebuilding one from the ground up, I believe I'd try to build something with radiant heat coming up through the floor. I seem to remember seeing a thread where someone used a regular water heater, a circulating pump and homemade radiator or two. I believe that concept would also work with pex under the floor.

Anyway I'm just blown away with your frame. Great safety idea for the jack points, and the fans, and the mouseproofing. The extra depth should give it a bit more rigidity as well as lots of strength. How much will it weigh compared to the original?

Paula
Hi Paula; Most certainly one can get very creative with heating options, however today's heaters are lot more efficient than tey were in the past. There is minimal heat loss through the floor, especially when a air gap of 1" exists between Prodex and plywood floor. Try to bear in mind that in my case there will be no air exchange whatsoever between the belly pan and the interior. Each cable or plumbing entry will be 100% sealed. Shell will contain Prodex glued to 1/2" x2" urethane strips glued onto inside of the outer skin. Edges of Prodex will also be caulked with 3M 5200 thus creating total vapor barrier. According to my calculations even a small Gas Attwood heater will be more than sufficient. There is no reason for me to get carried away with heating. Where I want to get carried away, is the design of the interior and quality of workmanship on the entire project.

Thus far, my new frame is 93 lbs heavier than original. This however is not a issue because all interior will be carbon fiber foam filled. Lot of storage units will not be put back to leave the interior more open. Secondly I will be towing it with 2006 Sierra Crew Cab 2500 6.0 L gasser which can tow 9200 lbs.
I estimate that my Argosy should weigh about 4800 lbs empty, therefore I do not consider the weight much of an issue. Thanks for your input Paula. "Boatdoc"
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Old 01-15-2007, 05:16 AM   #23
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Doc, the plywood on the floor, isn't that sign substrate?
\
Hi Paul NC; Floor is aluminum coated plywood made by Omega Panel Co.
We used it in replacement of structual interiors in Aluminum boats for past 10 years, where condensation rots our regular plywood in a matter of few years. But, it is of much importance to soak the open edge's with Git-Rot Epoxy prior to installation. Extra precaution is taken by trimming the edges with aluminum U Channel where bottom horizontal cross section is 1.1/4" and 1/2" on top.
3M 5200 adhesive is used between the sealed with Git Rot edge, and the aluminum trim, thus creating total vapor barrier. Any pre-drilled holes, are treated with Git Rot as well, before installing the fasteners. I am sure you are familiar with the rigidity of the product, right? Thanks "Boatdoc"
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Old 01-15-2007, 06:23 AM   #24
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Boatdoc, Great Innovations!

Boatdoc,
I am very impressed with how you applied your experience in the Boat Industry and common sense to solving many enduring airstream problems in the rebuilding of this Argosy. I think your willingness to share your innovations is especially commendable. We may not be able to invest the $ or time to get it as right as you have, but at least we know what the optimal solution looks like. I have recently moved my trailer from a gravel lot to hard stand based on your views on moisture effects. Thanks for that tip. Also I agree with many of your views on organizing the interior space. Gene
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Old 01-15-2007, 10:22 AM   #25
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So what's the plan IRT waste tanks? are they going to be "on the floor" inside, or suspended below/inside the framework? how's that going to tie in w/ all the complete sealing and no air exchange under there?
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Old 01-15-2007, 11:39 AM   #26
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So what's the plan IRT waste tanks? are they going to be "on the floor" inside, or suspended below/inside the framework? how's that going to tie in w/ all the complete sealing and no air exchange under there?
Hi Chuck; Gray tank will be above floor under the sink with sink trap in place. Gray tank will drain as washdown through shut off valve located near the black tank for rinsing purposes. While the entry from gray into black tank will not be on top of black tank, the black tank will be discharged first. Bathtub will also have a shallow trap under the floor inside the belly pan, and the drain pipe will be located just below the Prodex delivering gray water via in line macerating pump. The drain pipe will be brought up through the floor near gray tank and affixed near the top of the gray tank. Past the macerating pump, a check valve will be installed into discharge pipe from the tub, thus preventing back flush. Black tank is 8" deep and will be sunk into the belly pan aprox 5". Top of tank will be enclosed by a box 4" high, on which the toilet adopter will be mounted. This will lower the overall height of the standard height commode. All through floor connections, will have a neoprene flex seals of proper diameter with the outer skirt sealed with 3M 5200 adhesive, while close flexible inner lip will seal it to the outer diameter of the pipe. Macerating pump will work from a water pressure sensing switch, mounted past the shower valve. Pressure of water in that switch will turn the macerating pump on while shower is used. Thanks Chuck. "Boatdoc"
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Old 01-15-2007, 12:09 PM   #27
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not sure I follow the black tank...its going to be both below and above the floor...the portion above the floor, covered with a box? wouldn't that "raise" the height of the comode?
If I'm picturing this correctly, a big hole in the floor will be required so that the tank can protrude up through...how's that going to affect the structural strength of the floor?
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Old 01-16-2007, 12:51 AM   #28
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For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity above and beyond the call of duty ............... This Baby will make you The Airstream Hero that everyone has been waiting for. I wish I could witness this as it happens. Thanks for posting and sharing... The Old 1SG is very impressed........................
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