Tail sag repair instructions needed

[Boondocker]

I know there are tons of threads on tail sag repair, but so far I have yet to find a clear (to me) set of instructions about exactly how to repair the problem. I get lost in the endless threads and need some conciseness. Can anyone enlighten me or point me to the instructions somewhere? Also, does this repair require the gutting of the unit, or can it be done from the outside?

[53flyingcloud]

Check with Andy (InlandRV) on that..
I recently saw his list of the proper/recommended steps to take. It was under a thread on elephant ears on a newer unit..Good Luck~!

[Boondocker]

I should also add, is this a definite hire out project? If yes, can the local welder do it or is should it be done by the factory or what? Any idea what I should expect on cost?

[53flyingcloud]

Rodney, you would be well advised to contact Andy.
Given the distance between the two of you and, if I were you..
I would opt to ask him first his opinion as to what your options will be. First and foremost, I believe he will ask for photos. Are you sure you have a tail sag problem? What test have you performed to come to that conclusions? No one should give you any recommendations without seeing the unit in question first or, those pictures first.
Good luck~!

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by Gen Disarray

I should also add, is this a definite hire out project? If yes, can the local welder do it or is should it be done by the factory or what? Any idea what I should expect on cost?

Correctly repairing rear end separation, seems to have several opinions.

For perhaps 30 years, we have yet to have a failure.

Somewhere in this Forums, I posted a step by step way we do it, that takes more steps, but upgrades the rear end better than it was built. I do not know how to find that post.

The cost depends on how bad the seaparation is, how much rotten wood must be replaced, and the floor plan.

The bottom line cost can vary between $1600.00 to over $3000.00.

Perhaps I can better help you, if you provided some detailed photo's.

A welded, would not likely understand the monocoque construction, and therefore would be at a loss as to what to do, and why, as well as how.

This is not a job typically for a DIY or for an experiment.

Ah, success.

You can find that post under elephant ears, dated 2-17-09, post # 104

To replace the rear section of floor, the banana wraps, quarter panels and the panel below the rear window, should "all" be remove, to properly replace that plywood, as it should be, in one piece. Remember the floor is part of the "monocoque" construction. Piecing it, weakens that area.

Extra tie down brackets should be welded to the outside of the frame, just inside of the banana wraps. That will provide extra "hold down." You may find the floor channel cracked. If so, it should be removed at welded. Install more bolts, thru the floor channel, thru the plywood and theu the frame. Add steel plates inside of the floor channel, and then run the bolts thru them, for even greater strength.

Make sure the rear hold down plate is clean and secure. A water leak from the past, will cause it to rust, sometimes very bad.

Old, major parts, for the baths, are typically not available.

The "elephant ear" repair is a bunch of "HOG WASH."

Andy

There is another more detailed post that is way before that one, but............I can't find it.

Amoung other things, many more pop rivets should be added to the interior quarter panel to the floor channel. The floor channel may need to be removed and welded. Extra hold down plates should be added. More bolts added.

Andy

[Boondocker]

Where would one go to get this fixed? Anybody with experience hiring this out? Would Jackson Center eat me alive on the deal?

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by Gen Disarray

Where would one go to get this fixed? Anybody with experience hiring this out? Would Jackson Center eat me alive on the deal?

Sunny southern California is about as close to you as Jackson Center.

Lawton to Jackson Center is 1000 miles.

Lawton to Corona is 1253 miles.

I have no idea what Airstream back log is.

Typically, we can have you on the road in 2 to 3 days.

Andy

[Gene]

Bummer Rodney. I'm sure this is not something you wanted to have to deal with and I wish you luck in deciding what to do and it gets fixed well and economically.

Gene

[Torii]

These may be the step-by-step instructions you are looking for. They don't seem to be anywhere on these forums but I found them here.


I believe this comes from Andy at Inland RV.

QUOTE:

The proper repair is easy.

1. Remove the rear quarter panels.
2. Remove most of the rivets from the rear plate, so that you can curl the rear plate upward, out of the way.
3. Observe the damage to the floor channel. Remove the channel, have it welded back together.
4. Add an additional gusset the outside of the frame, under the floor, for additional bolts.
5. Jack up the frame to it's correct position.
6. Assuming the floor is ok, and that the rear "hold down plate" is ok, reinstall the floor channel, with new 1/4" grade 5 or better hardware. Drill additional mounting holes through the gussets that were added. Use washers under the bolt heads and at the bottom of the plywood floor. Add steel plates above the floor channel at the frame and gusset areas, that will spread out the stresses.
7. Add additional rivets to hold the "INSIDE" quarter panels with greater strength.
8. Reinstall the quarter panels and rear plate, with olympic rivets at the sides and top. Use plenty of Vulkem sealer between the seams.
9. Use 3/16" pop rivets at the bottom of the quarter panels.
10. Reinstall the rub rail molding.

The above is a professional way to correct the rear end separation problem, and, at the same time, gives the rear shell to frame attachment considerable additional strength. Done properly, no evidence of repairs can be seen, other than the olympic rivets.

Here is a recent thread

-Torii

[Boondocker]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

The cost depends on how bad the seaparation is, how much rotten wood must be replaced, and the floor plan.

The bottom line cost can vary between $1600.00 to over $3000.00.

Perhaps I can better help you, if you provided some detailed photo's.

Andy

Exactly what photos would you need?

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by Gen Disarray

Exactly what photos would you need?

One or two closeup photo's where the frame goes undreneath the molding at the rear end.

A couple of photo's showing as best you can, the damage to the rear floor as you see it thru the access compartment.

In looking at your 1 photo, the huge carrier mounted to the bumper, more than likely caused the separaton problem. Obviously, it would have to be deleted.

You can forward them direct, if you wish.

Andy

[Rhonda]

If you check out garthbf profile he has a thread about rear end separation with some great photos. I'm sorry I can't provide an exact link.

[CanoeStream]

Originally Posted by Rhonda

If you check out garthbf profile he has a thread about rear end separation with some great photos. I'm sorry I can't provide an exact link.

This might be it - http://www.airforums.com/forums/f36/...tml#post622064

[Boondocker]

I haven't found signs of wood rot, which I take is a good thing. My hope is that this ends up on the lower end of the price range, but somehow, I doubt it. Because the after market gray water tank is part of the ugly box extension I will be loosing my gray tank in the process. I had hoped to install a new one up above the axles this spring, but I never dreamed the rear end separation repair was going to cost so much. Looks like a long season with the tote boy is in my future. Pic from below is from when I first got the rig. Separation is visible now- I can think of a couple long forest service roads and one rapid beach egress that didn't do much to help the basic problem of the box

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by Gen Disarray

I haven't found signs of wood rot, which I take is a good thing. My hope is that this ends up on the lower end of the price range, but somehow, I doubt it. Because the after market gray water tank is part of the ugly box extension I will be loosing my gray tank in the process. I had hoped to install a new one up above the axles this spring, but I never dreamed the rear end separation repair was going to cost so much. Looks like a long season with the tote boy is in my future. Pic from below is from when I first got the rig. Separation is visible now- I can think of a couple long forest service roads and one rapid beach egress that didn't do much to help the basic problem of the box

You may not lose the gray tank, if the rear end is beefed up as it should be.

But, that metal box has to go.

in the absence of rotten wood, the repair cost would be considerably less, since the bath would not have to be gutted, or any floor replaced.

Andy

[Boondocker]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

You may not lose the gray tank, if the rear end is beefed up as it should be.

But, that metal box has to go.

in the absence of rotten wood, the repair cost would be considerably less, since the bath would not have to be gutted, or any floor replaced.

Andy

I'm not tracking the logic here, the box is aluminum and weighs next to nothing. The frame extension and tank on the other hand are heavy. Can you explain to me how the frame extension isn't a problem? I am more confused than normal now.

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by Gen Disarray

I'm not tracking the logic here, the box is aluminum and weighs next to nothing. The frame extension and tank on the other hand are heavy. Can you explain to me how the frame extension isn't a problem? I am more confused than normal now.

We can beef the frame up as well as the rear of the shell, that holds the frame up.

The aluminum box is tempting to load a bunch of things in it. When that happens, the tongue weight goes down, and more stresses are placed on the frame and shell. D you really want to do that?

It's not practical to create a fixed product for you, if it will be used beyond it's capabilities, which will only lead to more problems.

You say the box doesn't weigh very much.

Your 24 foot tradewind has a moment arm from the center of the axle to about the center of the box of 12 feet, which means a one pound weight in that box, or the box itself, is actually 12 pounds. Add to that the weight of the steel that was used to extend the frame, and now that weight can quickly cause a problem, which your trailer at this point has.

That's the very reason rear end separatio takes place.

We can correct the separation and increase the shell to frame strength, but we will not get involved if that box will be used for storage. That in itself, will void our warranty, just so that you understand our position, so that there would be no misunderstanding.

I might add that I don't believe the factory would want anything to do with your project, because of that box. They would rebuild the trailer, the way it was originally.

Andy

[Boondocker]

Perhaps I wasn't clear. I wasn't arguing for the box I was saying it confuses me how a 2 foot extension of the frame with a gray tank in it does not represent a problem, where as a empty aluminum box does.

Since all I have hauled in the box is are the hoses, power cord, and wheel chocks, I am inclined to believe it is the extension more than the box and contents that was at issue. In any case, it is clear the box was a bad idea to start with and never should have been put there.

By the way, the factory indicated they would do a elephant ear repair on it, which came as a shock especially given the amount of money they want to do it.

[Boondocker]

I removed the ugly box today- that was a hoot, and pulled the gray tank. Tomorrow I pull her up to Oklahoma City to have the rear end repaired by a guy there who works on Airstreams. I will keep everyone posted on how the repair goes. The summer is at hand

[eubank]

Oh, wow, the ugly box is gone? So how am I to recognize your rig if you come a drivin' in the park?

Lynn