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Old 04-12-2004, 07:51 PM   #15
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Dear Andy, my hub took the pics of the frame, then I got hit with acetone smell from neighbor (usually wind is in other direction) had anaphylactic reaction and seizure which he handled ,then drove younger son to Drama practice came back and the toilet majorly erupted, worked on cleaning that up, picked son up ,took him to Boy Scouts (He's asst scoutmaster) and then they need to pick up some much needed groceries on the way home I expect to see them around 10 PM-and who knows about dinner? That's kind of typical of our life. something's always coming up. Sending pictures is beyond me right now.
However, I'm going to ask you a big favor- can you give me an idea of what the stuff I put up for sale costs? I have NO IDEA and I wanted folks here to have first shot, but I feel like I am messing things up. would you please give me a range of prices? assume good working order. Thanks Silver suz or would it be better to hand everything over to my son to do e-bay. he knows about those things. (at TX A&M)
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Old 04-12-2004, 11:10 PM   #16
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Andy, I'm the hub. Since we haven't yet figured out how to append a photo to one of these missives, I'll describe the problem. The lower flange of the main fore-aft "C" channel on both sides is rusty and wrinkled. This is right where the jack point is aft of the axle reinforcement plate. Top flange in tension, bottom flange in compression and wrinkled. Everything seems to sag down aft of the wheelwells and the extrusion which clasps the floor aft of the wheelwell on the driver's side is split lengthwise. I'm tempted to cut away the lower flange and up the web a couple inches on both sides, lift up the rear end until the frame is level, and weld in a piece of 2" angle to replace the flange and maybe box in the whole section to make it much stronger.
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Old 04-13-2004, 10:07 AM   #17
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Silver suz.

Verbal description of damages, is never used to generate a verbal remedy. Not unless you don't mind being sued.

We will gladly attempt to help you from photos, but must respectfully decline any assistance based on a persons description.

Welcome to California.

Andy
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Old 04-13-2004, 10:28 AM   #18
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Another good laugh this morning -if I can figure out how to, I'll put the 2 jokes on off-forum. The third laugh is for my husband- a mechanical engineer- who thinks descriptions like that are helpful!!! I will tell a funny joke on us. For 30 years my husband wanted the toilet paper a certain way. I KNEW he wanted it a certain way, but since I had absolutely no energy on toilet paper placement , I never could remember which way. Finally 2 years ago. I got the brilliant idea that I would draw a picture of what he wanted, did it on a post-it, and now the toilet paper is always the way he wants! I agree, I am a visual learner too! He's too used to talking to other design engineers! I'll work today on learning how to send the pics. It's not just me- everyone has problems with it. Thanks for your reply- I'll forward it to work so all the engineers can have a good laugh too! Hey Andy, we lived in Berkeley up by the rose garden for 7 years and then 14 years in the mts over the Monterey Bay! My kids were born in Santa Cruz! My heart is still there. Texas is a foreign country.
It's just that engineering mindset- ( Dilbert is very popular around here.) I wish he kept wearing the pocket protecter, now ink stains spoil too many shirts. Thanks, Suz (P.S. he is a wonderful husband and person)
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Old 04-13-2004, 10:37 AM   #19
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Silver suz.

Wonderful people and husbands, especially some engineers, don't necessarily make a good Airstream mechanic.

The engineering gobble and goup, always needs to be sifted and boiled down to "plain" english.

That way, even someone like myself can figure out what they really mean, and then proceed to do the simple repair.

Figures.

Boy, I will hear it now.

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Old 04-13-2004, 11:22 AM   #20
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What you hear is the sound of both hands clapping. I totally agree!!! LOL. since I'm the go-fer on projects, it would drive me crazy when he asked for some tool, name of which I had no idea. Also he loves to go for the elegant (i.e. time consuming) solutions, hard on a "type A "wife. whereas I'm the- quick, get it done and move on to the next thing. When I wait, he does truly elegant work- the dashboard he designed for Peterbilt- Dash of Class- is in the Smithsonian! But mostly, I see all the rest of the work that needs doing around here, that certainly will NEVER make the Smithsonian.!! silver suz : ))))
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Old 04-13-2004, 02:28 PM   #21
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I give up for now. silver suz- dont know how to reduce photo size
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Old 04-13-2004, 03:06 PM   #22
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I give up for now. silver suz- dont know how to reduce photo size
Suz, tell us a little about your computer. posting pictures is really simple, and you probably have everything you need to do it.

what type of computer? what operating system? what photo-editing software?

Microsoft has a cool "powertoy" (free download) that will auto-magically smallerize a whole folder's worth of pictures, probably intended just for this purpose. (taking large digi-camera photos and optimizing them for web-posting).
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Old 04-13-2004, 03:38 PM   #23
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Hi and thanks for your help. We have a kodak Easy Share (ha) camera, 5.o megapixels. I've taken pic with it just this month. It has a dock that is connected to our Dell which we got in Aug '03. As it is in our family, one of the boys immediately grabbed the instructions and I havent seen them since! I have a copied page of the new software+new method to attach photos. and I've gotten through that When I go into the kodak program and pick out the pictures- I have the problem someone else has about not knowing how to reduce the pixels (?) down to the 206 X 288 size. that's where I'm stuck now. There are no clear instructions on how to reduce pixels. I can reduce and crop the size but it's still too big. at this point I have put enough hours into it for the day and will try tomorrow. I've got to get the solar ordered and the paint/sealers glue etc. I also face the daily fight for supremacy of the computer when my son gets home in 10 minutes. Homework always wins out but seems to drift into gameplaying behind my back : )) Thanks for your concern. Maybe I should order a new instruction book from kodak! So thanks for today ,but I must do some other things! I cant spend 100% of my life on the airstream! silver suz
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Old 04-13-2004, 04:13 PM   #24
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I hate these things that dumb-down the process. they only do what the authors think you'll want to do, which ain't much.


http://faqs.kodak.com/Digital_Camera...tance=&Shared=

I'd get some other software for editing photos if I were you...you may already have some...don't know what was bundled w/ your computer. But if the above is the only way you can do it w/ the kodak software's options, its rather limited. but you should be able to reduce the pictures so they can be posted here.

another thing you can do, if you know how to browse the file system and find the actual photographs on your hard drive, is to use the windowsXP powertoy that I mentioned. it'll take every image in a particular photo, and make a copy of it @ one of several resolutions. it doesn't overwrite the originals, so you don't have to worry about that...it makes a smaller copy of the image, and names the files that it creates "small_xxxxx.jpg". so you can easily copy a bunch of them to another folder, and have "e-mail-able" or "postable" versions.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/p.../powertoys.asp

best part is that its free!
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Old 04-13-2004, 06:38 PM   #25
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Silver suz.

I could not post photos either. "UNTIL," someone said "reduce the image size to the lowest the camera will allow."

On my Sony, that happens to be 640 x 480.

WOW!!!!!!!!

Like magic, now I can post photo's on this site.

Perhaps that might work for you.

Andy
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Old 04-13-2004, 06:47 PM   #26
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auto-magically smallerize


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Old 05-28-2006, 01:48 AM   #27
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Tail sag and seperation

Inspection today of our 1970 27' Overlander revealed more problems than I realized it had. A lot are of a minor nature, which I expected to find, and correctable. I won't enumerate those here.

What is a real downer is the rear end sag. I get about 3/8" movement streetside, 1/4" curbside when standing on the rear bumper. Closer inspection reveals rotted floor at the aft edge of the bathroom. Sink drain line is broken and may be the culprit here. Popping loose the rear of the belly pan shows some rust on the rear lower anngle iron that goes around the holding tank. Haven't peeled back enough to see the frame yet.

Let me see if I can fight of the depression long enough to list some questions.

1) The rear end problem does not necessarily indicate that the frame is rotted? Problem could just be the floor to shell and frame attachements? Is the logic correct here? Broken frames and rear seperation are different animals?

2) My axle arms are about parallel with the main frame member (as near as I can tell, one flat tire is kind of skewing the view). Are my axles toast? Good for a season or two? Or...(trailer pretty light at his point; no gear onboard, holding tank empty, don't know about water).

3) Noticed the kitchen counter (layout D I believe) is low at the aft curbside corner. I'm taking this to mean that either the cabinet or floor is rotted in this location. Either way, it's got to come out and repairs be made. Question is: Is it acceptable to do spot repairs on the floor, assuming one can put patches in to where they land on structural members? This is as opposed to entirly gutting it and doing a whole new floor. My understanding is that the upper shell rests on the floor, thus the condition of the floor at the edges and the attendant aluminum channels are what's critical? Am I on track here at all?

4) Tried to test the water system. Due to a bad leak at the sink faucet, test was stopped. Later on I noticed water leaking from what appears to be a small cast aluminum vent located on the curbside aft roof corner. HTH is water running up into a vent line (if that's what it is)? Clueless on this. Don't know if air pressure building up in the drain lines just pushed some water out that was trapped, or if I'm about to get another real kick in the teeth.

5) House electrical test: Univolt hums quietly, a couple of lights come on (most have been removed. Bulbs that is, fixtures are there). Get nothing happening at the control center. AC outlets functional. Suggestions on dead control center? Couldn't see the fuses well enough in the Univolt to know if all good, and left the meter in ther other truck. I'm 99% sure the battery is dead. Maybe just fuses? Dead battery affecting things? Can the Univolt be partly functional?


I would really appreciate some help with all this. I thought it ws in better shape, and the main project today was not to just sit down and cry in front of my daughter.

The good parts: Replacement Coleman air conditioner seems to be nearly new as promised, and makes nice cold air. Made it very comfortable even with the door standing open most of the time.

New GE apartment fridge works, and very quietly.

Curbside ZipDee awning can be made to function. Cloth is a little crispy at one edge, but looks like we can get a season or so out of it. This is a bonus; I just figured it would be toast. Green and white stripes, which is neat since we're heading towards green for upholstery/curtains/linens. Considering painting the trim stripes back in in green too. Then maybe we can tell which giant soda pop can is ours.

Exterior has some dents (more than I remember naturally), but doesn't bother me. All in all I would rate it nice. Windows all good; need a couple of latches here and there.

Cabinets generally good; this one has the walnut oil finished interior. I do far more difficult woodwork for a living. A good weekend will have the interior wood corrected.

Last question, and I know this somewhat subjective, and will also depend on how bad some of it really is:

From what I have described, does this sound salvageable? We've got $1900 into it, and immediately need tires to move it further. From what I've read on the forum, there aren't any repairs I can't do myself. I have two professional woodshops at my disposal, have my own small machine shop and blacksmithing and fabrication stuff. What I don't have is unlimited funds. And I have a backlog of projects longer than I care to admit. I really want the Airstream to work, but I don't have 1000 hours to put into it. Too, maybe it's not as horrible as I feel right now, and I'm not sure we can find any sort of trailer this size we can afford that won't have some problems. In other words, patching floors sucks, but has almost no material cost. Replacing air conditioners and the like runs up, and I suspect most of the other brand trailers we looked at from the mid '80's, while appearing nice, would go through one major appliance then the next.

I'm pretty upset over all this, mainly with myself for flat out missing stuff. It's mainly feeling like a heel because I had my family all amped up about what we could do and where we could go. Now, it appears that Daddy's slipped in another weird project and nobodies vactioning anywhere soon.

Anyway, I need some help understanding what I've really got here, and getting my head wrapped around it. Maybe then I'll know what to do, but I need some help,

Thank you,

Rob
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Old 05-28-2006, 06:09 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackboat
Inspection today of our 1970 27' Overlander revealed more problems than I realized it had. .....
Rob:

Not to dispair (too much, anyway)...
Use the trailer, plan some camping trips, and schedule required repairs around the trips.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackboat
1) The rear end problem does not necessarily indicate that the frame is rotted? Problem could just be the floor to shell and frame attachements? Is the logic correct here? Broken frames and rear seperation are different animals?
What you will probably find is a lot of rotted (rusted) steel after you pull back the belly pan from the rear....results may vary. As you already realize, the shell to floor to frame integrity cannot be compromised, so the only proper (meaning long term) fix that I am aware of is to remove any rusted/decomposed materials (steel, wood, aluminum) and replace a large enough section to be able to get to sound material and make a proper splice....remember, a monocoque design such as AS requires that ALL three or the structure types (floor, frame, and shell) work together as a single unit to meet overall structure design.

You will not know the proper solution until you tear it apart to look at it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by blackboat
2) My axle arms are about parallel with the main frame member (as near as I can tell, one flat tire is kind of skewing the view). Are my axles toast? Good for a season or two? Or...(trailer pretty light at his point; no gear onboard, holding tank empty, don't know about water).
I think you will find most of the extension arms on the 70's trailers will be about flat...I know that mine are on the '78 Sovereign. I think Inland Andy had a good answer for the axle replacement question - he recommended to take a short ride inside the trailer and experience first hand the suspension dampening - or lack of it while travellling of a typical road. On my '78 there are a few interior panel rivets popped - but they could have gone missing in a fast tow over a rough road, a long time running with unbalanced tires, the rubber may have indeed taken a set - or any combination of the above. The next step in my axle decision is to take some accurate vertical measurements and remove the tire supports from one axle at a time (taking care to keep everything level for the measurement) in order to observe if there is ANY movement at all at the spindel when it is unsupported. I would not have much hope, as a mid 90's trailer I have observed had virtually no movement when the tires were removed. I would suggest that, unless you plan several long trips this year, the axle replacement could be put off as a winter project.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackboat
3) Noticed the kitchen counter (layout D I believe) is low at the aft curbside corner. I'm taking this to mean that either the cabinet or floor is rotted in this location. .... My understanding is that the upper shell rests on the floor, thus the condition of the floor at the edges and the attendant aluminum channels are what's critical? Am I on track here at all?
Right on on all accounts - a good understanding of the scope of the repair is critical to doing it right. As you indicated, it will require a good deal of interior removal to find the real extent of the damage. Probably an easy fix here, though, on the counter of the '87 345 Motor Home I found the same corner as you described to be unsupported from the factory - I inserted a brace along the back of the counter and the whole thing is stronger than new (and level to boot).


Quote:
Originally Posted by blackboat
4) Tried to test the water system. Due to a bad leak at the sink faucet, test was stopped. Later on I noticed water leaking from what appears to be a small cast aluminum vent located on the curbside aft roof corner. HTH is water running up into a vent line (if that's what it is)?
Good news is that it IS probably a vent line. If the support for the vent allowed the pipe to slip below the water level the combination of air/water pressure COULD be lifting the water out the top of the vent....but then the question arises of why is the pressure not being relieved through the P traps of the sinks or shower....I would believe that, beyond the proper placement of the vent pipe vertically, this should be a low priority concern. I suspect that with time, use, and cleaning this problem will either correct itself or reveal the problem. The drainage plumbing is all plastic/PVC so getting to it is a bunch more problematic than the actual repair.


Quote:
Originally Posted by blackboat
5) House electrical test: Univolt hums quietly, a couple of lights come on (most have been removed. Bulbs that is, fixtures are there). Get nothing happening at the control center. AC outlets functional. Suggestions on dead control center? Couldn't see the fuses well enough in the Univolt to know if all good, and left the meter in ther other truck. I'm 99% sure the battery is dead. Maybe just fuses? Dead battery affecting things? Can the Univolt be partly functional?
The Univolt really requires a battery in line for good rectification. Battery life of a "regular" battery could not be expected to be more than a battery in regular automotive use (3-5 years if you are lucky). As far as the other 12 volt questions - best to get your volt meter out and start to probe. I would recommend the first thing to do is to aggresively clean all of the junction points and fuse holders to remove any corrossion. Corrossion is additive, and is the culprit of many electrical gremlins. Be sure to explore the ground (-) circuit as carefully as the positive side. On the 120 question, I would suggest the same thing - the 30 amp plug/shore line could well require replacement - there is a junction point for the shore line/house wiring somewhere around the rear curbside corner that may cause problems. Check the breaker box and insure (carefully) that all is functional there.


As you have already found out, most every question about working on these antiques has already been answered many times over - although it may take some perseverance to ask the "search" a question with the proper wording to get a satisfactory answer. Peruse the threads of others who have documented their rebuilds - there are many...some have taken an easy fix, others have rebuilt to original specs.

By far, I think the rear end separation is the most immediate and serious of your problems, but even it could be put off until winter if you have a place to work on it. I know you have some good camping oppportunities within a few hours tow of your residence. In my opinion the best camping season is Autumn, so go for a few short trips this summer (camping, heat, and Georgia humidity suck as a combination), and be ready to hit the family with a mack-daddy trip when the colors change. After getting a "taste" of AirStreaming you could make the decision if further repairs were worth it to you. I don't think the welding and rear plywood replacement on mine took more than 20 hours, but bear in mind I only replaced the rear 8" of plywood,and I have a center bath.

Don't discount the opportunity to work with your daughter on this project - if she really enjoys her camping experiences she may be excited about "helping" you with the rebuild/repair project...what better way to get her to work with her hands, pass on some common sense, teach her to think about what she is doing, and allow her to be involved in a "real world" situation where time and money spent must be balanced against enjoyment and fullfillment derived.


Rob, this assignment, should you decide to accept it, will be costly beyond belief in terms of money and time, but will provide to you and your family many times over memories, opportunities, and experiences you could not find in any other area of the world - enjoy it (and your family) while you can!

This message will self destruct on 30 seconds.

PM me your address - I have a lot of info on late 70's trailers I could burn on a CD if you want it.
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