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Old 09-07-2010, 11:42 AM   #1
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1948 19' Trailwind
1949 18' Trailwind
1957 16' Bubble
Salt Lake City , Utah
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 31
Strangest thing... a '49 Trailwind followed me home this weekend!

Hi all,

I haven't posted much since, with my '65 Caravel, I have learned most of what I needed to know just by searching the forums and I'm not great with computers. On Saturday, however, I became the proud new owner of a little gem - a 1949 Trailwind #5034. There isn't as much info on this older aluminum tent so I thought I'd throw a few questions out as I continue to search. Oh, and thanks Fred for all the wonderful initial info!

I may have met some of you at the Four Corners Unit's rally in April. I was "Vanna" during the auction

So... her name is "Zephyr" - I realize its the wrong model for the name and may be a bit confusing to people, but it's actually from one of my favorite songs:

Fly away on my zephyr
I feel it more than ever
And in this perfect weather
We'll find a place together

In the water where I center my emotion
All the world can pass me by
Fly away on my zephyr
We're gonna live forever

The basics - she is 18', skin would be in excellent shape if it weren't for her scuba mask of a back window, which will be coming off soon - a previous owner wanted a functional rear window. She is gutted, but I have the original, stainless 2-cabinet-with-an-icebox-and-sink unit and the aluminum upper cabinet frames. I also have the wheel well exterior skirts, exterior lights (though only two intact glass lenses) and one original hehr vent. I don't think the other vent is original - it has a yellowed plastic fan with lights around it.

The tube frame is in excellent condition with no significant rust and all fins still attached. I'm in Utah and it's been here a while, but I don't know where the trailer spent all of it's 61 years. The floor is out but the belly pan is still attached and in remarkably excellent shape! Paid $4000. So, questions...

1. There is no floor channel, only aluminum tabs attached to the exterior skin which (I guess) were screwed into the floor every foot or so. The floor was out when we bought her, so I don't know how the old floor was attached.

2. Why are there two different colors of rivets on skin which does not appear to have been changed? Some yellowish, some normal aluminum.

3. Where do people put water, grey and black tanks on these old beauties and what sizes? Its for us plus 2 kids (sometimes ) 60/40 boondocking. There's a lot of room vertically with that big pipe, but since it's in the middle, it seems the grey tank and the pipes into it would have to be on the same side. I'm thinking remove some of the aluminum fins and replace with shallower steel channel/angle so I would have a bigger space. I'd rather not do a full frame replacement since it's in such good shape, but I would if I needed to.

4. Is the skin still 2024 .025 alclad like the '65 caravel?

5. What aluminum is the interior skin?

6. Any suggestions or links to threads on adding a side bath? I'm thinking a fixed bed in the back and a wrap-around dinette up front with a street side, small, aluminum wet bath. How small is too small for such a creation? I'll be replacing that side panel anyway due to old cutouts, so I can move the window which is in the way.

7. The belly trim is badly corroded. What have people done to replace these?

In contrast to the caravel, I'll be bringing Zephyr back more in a resto-mod style rather than perfectly original. I will be using the SS galley, but I'm actually thinking of putting two tip-out window 'eyes' in the back, a la the 1937 Clippers.

Since space and finances control, we'll be selling the caravel and just when she's at the fun stage of refinish! I'll post something soon, but she's a '65 with new axel, floor, exterior side panel, custom black tank, fantastic fan, etc. We're into in it more, but are thinking $7000.

Looking forward to any and all comments/suggestions!

Kelly
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Old 09-07-2010, 12:00 PM   #2
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1983 31' Airstream310
Cactus Hug , Arizona
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No offense, but that window bites; glad you're removing it.
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Old 09-07-2010, 12:10 PM   #3
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I have a feeling that folks here will recommend you replacing the frame especially for adding holding tanks. The pipe frame was not that strong, adding tanks will stress it.

In regards to skin type:
From the company website,
Aluminum Shell Material Timeline 8‐11‐09
40's early 50's Aluminum was from Alcoa and Kaiser Heat Treatable copper Alloyed.032 Clad 24ST 3 ANA 13.
This material had a high purity aluminum cladding rolled on one side. This provided a brighter finish and more protection from the elements.
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Old 09-07-2010, 12:22 PM   #4
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I wonder if that coach took a huge rear end hit; the cladding sure looks different.
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Old 09-07-2010, 12:26 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KellySLC View Post
2. Why are there two different colors of rivets on skin which does not appear to have been changed? Some yellowish, some normal aluminum.
The "yellowish" is a coating that is on the rivets from the factory. Even new buck rivets have it. It's intended as a protectant from oxidation, but is easily removed. When polishing, it jumps off with the first pass - so the rivets that don't have it have been rubbed more than those that do, like in typical washing with a sponge a couple of times would do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverwanabe View Post
I have a feeling that folks here will recommend you replacing the frame especially for adding holding tanks. The pipe frame was not that strong, adding tanks will stress it.
Yep. You're going to all the effort to resto-mod this trailer, if the frame isn't strong enough to carry the load - what's the point? You'd only be asking for bigger trouble and heartache later to re-do it all...

Shari
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Old 09-07-2010, 01:04 PM   #6
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1948 19' Trailwind
1949 18' Trailwind
1957 16' Bubble
Salt Lake City , Utah
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Wow! Quick responses, thanks!

Greg - so I'm assuming the 2024 T3 .025 from airparts would work equally well on the trailwind as it did on the caravel?

Mike - Yes, that window is not attractive at all. It was actually well done from a metal working point of view, but it will be the first thing to go. Also, the cladding on the back is the same but it looks different since the seller polished it.

Shari - Thanks for the heads up on the rivets, and I've already been trying to get a price on welding. I have a welder, and a son who could do it, but he learned in high school and I want a little help from a trailer maker on the best design that can also accommodate the tanks.

Keep the comments coming

Kelly
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Old 09-07-2010, 01:47 PM   #7
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Kelly,

Talk to Uwe he has built a couple of ladder frames for pipe frame trailers.

Bill

Quote:
Originally Posted by KellySLC View Post
Wow! Quick responses, thanks!

Greg - so I'm assuming the 2024 T3 .025 from airparts would work equally well on the trailwind as it did on the caravel?

Mike - Yes, that window is not attractive at all. It was actually well done from a metal working point of view, but it will be the first thing to go. Also, the cladding on the back is the same but it looks different since the seller polished it.

Shari - Thanks for the heads up on the rivets, and I've already been trying to get a price on welding. I have a welder, and a son who could do it, but he learned in high school and I want a little help from a trailer maker on the best design that can also accommodate the tanks.

Keep the comments coming

Kelly
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Old 09-07-2010, 02:00 PM   #8
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1948 22' Liner
1955 22' Flying Cloud
1966 20' Globetrotter
Wimberley , Texas
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Hi, Just finished replacing the pipe frame on my 48 Liner. I was correct in not trusting the old pipe frame in that just when the last piece of belly pan and subfloor were removed the pipe bent to the ground. It also turned out to be a good decision to trailer it home rather than towing it.

The new frame includes schedule forty pipe extending in the front and rear to give the appearance of the original pipe frame but only extends to the second and third crossmembers respectfully, to allow space in center portion of frame for holding tank. Will try to attach pictures.
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Old 09-07-2010, 02:39 PM   #9
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1948 19' Trailwind
1949 18' Trailwind
1957 16' Bubble
Salt Lake City , Utah
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 31
Bill - thanks for the suggestion of contacting Uwe. I met him at the NM Ralley. Great guy

retradewind - thanks for the response!

How did you determine the spacing and quantity of the cross members? I know what they were on the caravel, but I wonder if there is some engineering formula to keep in mind.

What size tanks did you use? Looks like fresh water in front and grey in back? How is your shower going to drain into it? I really like the look of that frame using the pipe in front/back and it looks tough as nails too. Do you have a blog or other account of your resto?

Thanks again,

Kelly
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Old 09-07-2010, 04:13 PM   #10
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1948 22' Liner
1955 22' Flying Cloud
1966 20' Globetrotter
Wimberley , Texas
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Kelly, The main frame rails are made of 2"x6" tubular,12 ga. (1/8") steel as are the two front cross members and the first rear crossmember. The remaining crossmembers and all outriggers are made of 6" building purlins which are slightly less than 14 ga. I used the heavier tubular crossmembers in the front and rear to secure the pipe. Spacing remained about the same as on the original pipe frame. From an engineering viewpoint this is way over-designed. A four inch deep frame would be plenty strong but I wanted to maintain the original look of the Liner which has six inch deep framing.

The grey water tank is 22 gallons, the fresh water is 18 gallons. There will also be an 18 gallon flat bottom tank mounted on the floor. The shower will drain into fitting located on top edge of tank. This will give only about a 2" drop from shower pan to tank but this seems to me enough.

I have maintained a detail picture account of the work but I do not have a blog. I will be glad to share it with you. We were also at Restoration rally. Look at UWE Web page and Steve's Curtis Wright.

Pat
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Old 09-07-2010, 08:32 PM   #11
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1948 19' Trailwind
1949 18' Trailwind
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'49 Trailwind details

Hey Pat! I remember you two from the NM rally. Your lovely wife reminded me so much of Gena Rowlands, so elegant...

I've checked out Uwe's site and am still looking for Steve's info.

Where is your bath going in relation to the grey tank? Very nice work, by the way.

Kelly
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Old 09-08-2010, 01:18 PM   #12
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Kelly, Go to "Ross was framed" Blog on Area 63 Productions web site.

The drain from the shower will be only about 2 ft. from entry into upper side of grey water tank. The wet bath will be located on road side just behind the kitchen gally. Pat
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Old 09-08-2010, 05:27 PM   #13
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1948 19' Trailwind
1949 18' Trailwind
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Thanks again Pat. We're thinking that's where our wet bath will be as well.
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