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Old 08-16-2006, 09:39 PM   #267
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I am at about the same place with my foil installation method. After about 1 full year of down time I was finally able to spend almost a whole day on it last Saturday. I have my end caps reinstalled over the new foil and about 35% of the area in between the end cap areas insulated now. I almost forgot to insulated behind my vista window sliders.

I have been using a caulking gun and "Liquid Nails" to glue the foam in place. It seems to stick pretty well that way. It only has to stay put long enough to get the inner skins on too. I am almost out of the Liquid Nails so I stopped at Lowes to get some more. I found another product there that was cheaper and sounds like it should work just fine. The Liquid Nails sells for something like $2.70 per tube and this new product "Nail Power" sells for about $1.05 per tube in a 12 pack. It also specifically says that it is good for glueing drywall to wood and metal studs. I have not yet tried it out but it sounds like it should work.

I have been using foam strips about 1" wide and aluminum duct tape on any seams that occur. I have not taken the time to seal around the edges since it seems like the foam-foil-foam sandwhich should do OK for that. I do like the idea of adding wider foam up in the roof area for some added stiffness. I have been staying with narrower strips with the idea that the foil works best with an air gap next to it. Just as a general idea of the r-value if you put a single layer of the foil insulation in the middle of a wood 2x4 wall you supposedly can reach about r16. I don't expect to get that much but I do think it will be better than for 1-1/2" of fiberglass. There is a lot detail in some posts about the foil insulation and its relative merits. Check out the following thread and especially my post number 11 as a starting point for foil information:

http://www.airforums.com/forum...ion-24037.html

I am inclined to suggest leaving out the fiberglass in the dead air spaces but I am not 100% sure how it effects the relectivity of the foil. Fiberglass has an R value of only about 3 per inch so the real question is how much would the refelctivity of the foil (and its effectiveness reduce) by adding fiberglass. Also it might be hard to get thin enough bats to fit in the dead space cavities on both sides of the foil. I think that compressing fiberglass reduces its effective R value.
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Old 08-17-2006, 04:50 AM   #268
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the 3/4" insulation board supposedly has an R value od 4, and the 1/2" has a value of 3. if those numbers are right, you'd do better with foam board than bat insulation anyway... but like i mentioned, i'm just using it for strips.

jp
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Old 08-17-2006, 01:00 PM   #269
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Originally Posted by A-Merry-Can
the 3/4" insulation board supposedly has an R value od 4, and the 1/2" has a value of 3. if those numbers are right, you'd do better with foam board than bat insulation anyway... but like i mentioned, i'm just using it for strips.

jp
Where did you find the 3/4" stuff. All I could find at Lowes and Home Depot were 1/2" and 1". I have been using 1" for my outer strips and 1/2" for the inner ones. There is a little thickness to the foil so the combined sadwich is a little thicker than 1-1/2". The foam does seem to compress enough to fit in the wall with the inner skins in place so I figure it will just be a little more snug. I wanted to go with two layers of 3/4" but could not find any.

Malcolm
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Old 08-17-2006, 01:56 PM   #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Merry-Can
the 3/4" insulation board supposedly has an R value od 4, and the 1/2" has a value of 3. if those numbers are right, you'd do better with foam board than bat insulation anyway... but like i mentioned, i'm just using it for strips.

jp
Ahhh... now that's an interesting idea. I may do that, just go with solid foam on the inside and outside of the aluminum insulation.
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Old 08-17-2006, 03:02 PM   #271
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I opted to use a very high quality adhesive, sort of like liquid nails on steroids. The name escapes me right now. It was about $ 1.50 more than the regular liquid nails per tube. It sets up strong and fast. I test glued some strips first to see how strong the bond got. I could not remove the strip without tearing it.
I simply glued the foil on top of this strip, again testing for adhesion, and it seemed very secure. The foil would rip the foam strip before letting go.
It saved me from having to do 2 sets of foam strips, and then squeezing the inner skin in place.
I did use aluminized tape to seal all seams and edges as much as it was practical.
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Old 08-18-2006, 08:24 AM   #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malconium
Where did you find the 3/4" stuff. All I could find at Lowes and Home Depot were 1/2" and 1". I have been using 1" for my outer strips and 1/2" for the inner ones. There is a little thickness to the foil so the combined sadwich is a little thicker than 1-1/2". The foam does seem to compress enough to fit in the wall with the inner skins in place so I figure it will just be a little more snug. I wanted to go with two layers of 3/4" but could not find any.

Malcolm

i got all my materials at lowes. if i used 2 3/4" foam strips, it would be too thick. the walls would hold it, but i don't want any more stress than necessary.

jp
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Old 08-18-2006, 08:29 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by uwe
I opted to use a very high quality adhesive, sort of like liquid nails on steroids. The name escapes me right now. It was about $ 1.50 more than the regular liquid nails per tube. It sets up strong and fast. I test glued some strips first to see how strong the bond got. I could not remove the strip without tearing it.
I simply glued the foil on top of this strip, again testing for adhesion, and it seemed very secure. The foil would rip the foam strip before letting go.
It saved me from having to do 2 sets of foam strips, and then squeezing the inner skin in place.
I did use aluminized tape to seal all seams and edges as much as it was practical.

i'd go either way on adhesives, i guess. they're really only important to keep things lined up until the walls are rivetted back together in my application. one advantage of 2 layers of foam, is strengthening of the upper curved wall. on my tradewind, i have a shallow oil can dent in that area from polishing, and putting too much pressure on it. there's no support between the ribs. with the wider foam strips in that area, i'm hoping it will give it a little more structure so that doesn't happen to the little one!

on a side note, the funny thing about the dent is it's only there during temperature changes, particularly in teh morning. once it's all heated up, or cooled down, it disappears... pops back in, i guess. these things have a mind of their own, sometimes!

haha!

jp
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Old 08-18-2006, 09:10 AM   #274
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on a side note, the funny thing about the dent is it's only there during temperature changes, particularly in the morning. once it's all heated up, or cooled down, it disappears... pops back in, i guess. these things have a mind of their own, sometimes!

I've never heard of the following happening on an Airstream. But I though I'd share this thought. On an aircraft, which is under greater stress, the of the skin having a situation where it will pop in and out is called "oil canning". The oil canning name comes from what happens when you take a oil can and shake it the ends can pop pack and forth and make a "boing" type of sound. A piece of sheet metal will do a similar thing when you let it hang and wobble it. This condition is bad for aircraft because it will cause fatigue and eventually failure of the metal. Since the metal is a major part of the structure of an aircraft, this is not good. This statement shows how some people have too much useless information.
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Old 11-14-2006, 12:21 PM   #275
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endcaps going in...

made a little more progress today. using the tried and true method of foil insulation, i've started on the front endcap. it's certainly more difficult to get the foil in there than the sides. they were a piece of cake. anyway, spacers are on both sides of the foil, so should it come free from the outter shell, it will still be suspended in the cavity between the 2 aluminum skins. all the gaps have been taped with aluminum duct tape. i'm going to use the same stuff on the side panels as well. left side's all but done. it's nice to see things coming together, albiet slowly. i should be able to finish up the end cap today or tomorrow, and then finish the wiring on the sides.

it's time to really focus on getting the rear window sorted in this trailer. i can't start on the inner rear cap until that's wrapped up. i'd hate to see progress halted when i finally get things rolling again! ha! i'd like to have the insulation and interior panels in before it gets really cold, so i can work on it through the winter. it's NO fun in these things witn no insulation!

jp
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Old 11-14-2006, 01:09 PM   #276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Merry-Can
on a side note, the funny thing about the dent is it's only there during temperature changes, particularly in teh morning. once it's all heated up, or cooled down, it disappears... pops back in, i guess. these things have a mind of their own, sometimes!

haha!

jp

I have one of those too - I can tell the temperature outside by listening for the bong sounds in the morning and evening.
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Old 11-16-2006, 08:27 AM   #277
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forgot to post this!

the rest of the endcap went in like a charm. then it rained cats and dogs, and NO LEAKS! even better! i've ordered the overhead lights from sailorsams.com, along with some nice switches. buffing pads and rouge are enroute as well (to start polishing the endcap). my plan is to polish the end caps, as well as a center panel on the ceiling, and do the rest of the skin in either maple veneer on aluminum skins, or maple plywood... with cherry trim strips to cover the rivet edges. should be interesting to see cherry next to maple and polished aluminum. it'll be different, that's for sure!

wiring's about 20%, so while i'm working on getting the window situation sorted out, i'll finish that, and work on stripping/sanding the rear endcap. if the weather's nice, it should be a productive weekend!

jp
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Old 11-16-2006, 09:33 AM   #278
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wiring's about 20%, so while i'm working on getting the window situation sorted out, i'll finish that, and work on stripping/sanding the rear endcap. if the weather's nice, it should be a productive weekend!

jp
Your work is looking nice! So, in regards to the wiring, are you wiring it all for 12V with the exception of the A/C and converter? What gauge of wire are you using for the 12V wiring? That's the next step in my project and I haven't really looked into it too much yet because I've been so busy with other stuff...
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Old 11-16-2006, 10:05 AM   #279
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for the 12V lines, i got 100 feet of the 14/2 guage stuff from Home Depot. it's cheap, and i think that's what they used originally.

here's my 12V runs...
door switch to roof for 4 spotlights
door switch to exterior wall for porch lite
2 hot leads for lights on the corners of the front cap
switched lead from kitchen to 2 kitchen spots in cabinet
switched lead from kitchen to water pump (i think)
hot lead over bed for night light
hot lead to roof vent for fan

and my 110 runs...
hot lead behind fridge (fridge and TV)
hot lead to roof vent (in case i do a roof top AC)
hot lead to kitchen counter
hot lead to bathroom
hot lead to exterior

i'll have all the leads come in under the front dinette, so there will be leads there as well, if needed.

i'm using a thicker line for the 110 runs. it's orange as well, so i can't get em confused.

jp
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Old 11-16-2006, 10:54 AM   #280
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Ahh... cool. So did you do the wiring before insulating, or did you run it in "front" of the insulation? Also, what's the gauge for the 110V?

I think your wiring needs are about like mine... I have a lot of outlets too, and also I need to install a "monitor" panel in the kitchen for the water and propane tank levels.

My trailer originally had 12V and 110V, but I'll be making it all 12V with the the exception of the water heater, AC, refrigerator, converter and outlets, although the outlets will come from the converter.
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