Shell off transmogrification

[Zeppelinium]

Excellent. If I find a good condition shell (cheap), I'm going to copy you--but make the shortest possible two-axle mid-bath. I've got an idea that it can be done in 18 or 19 feet.

It'll be great following your progress to 2011.

Zep

[truckasaurus]

Just a quickish update, but no photos!

Yesterday I scraped all the gunk and stuff of off the the chassis and gave it a swift pressure washing. I whipped the Reese set up and brake lines off to make it easier.

Today I towed it for an hour to welding heaven. It flapped around a bit and I wouldn't want to tow it further without the weight distributing bars on.

As soon as the steel is sourced we'll start the welding. I say we but in reality I'll probably be a relatively innocent bystander (I don't want to set fire to my shoes or anything like that). We'll be using 6" x 3" Formed L stock in 12 gauge, 3 1/2" x 3/16" flat stock, 2" x 3/16" flat stock, 1" x 1" x 1/8" angle and some assorted bits and bobs as needed. This might change a bit depending what's out there.

Most of the above is for the tank enclosures, a little angle is to shore up some corrosion on the rear cross-members and the flat stock is to tie the modified cross-members together for extra rigidity. They'll be a little work done on the axle mounting plates as now the shell and floor are off there are some small improvements we can make. We're going to drill through the new plates in the same spot as the holes in the old chassis and put bolts through. I'm told that holes like that are prone to cracking. It sounds odd to me but given the experience of my welding inspector mentor I'll take the advice as gospel.

I'm adding little things like safety chain mounting points too...I thought it would be wise to, you know, just in case. (kidding, I can't believe it just had chain wrapped around the frame when I bought it). Four balance jack mounts will be added and the tongue jack will be replaced, maybe the coupler too if it makes sense.

I ordered up some JET air shears and JET air nibblers today and got a quote of $229 for 6 x 8' pieces of 20 Gauge C channel to re-attach the shell, made to my spec so I'm feeling on a roll. The old Channel was corroded, bent and full of rivet backs.

The aluminum C channel guy took a piece and traced the profile onto the quote sheet. I'm not sure if it started out life with 90 degree angles but it looks more like 100 now, any suggestions on what angle to go with for the final order would be most handy.

I expect to get photos of the next steps as the UPS van is winging it's way across Canada as we speak with a shiny new Canon for me.

[truckasaurus]

I gather the steel is on hand and ready to go so things should get moving on the chassis this week.

I got a quote back on the C channel, $229 for 6 x 8' sections, probably a bit high but I think it'll make the install smoother.

I wanted to order the aluminum sheet for the belly pan but I'm still mulling the options over. 4' x10' sheets of 0.025" 'utility grade', which I think is 3003, are available locally, $56 (CAD) a sheet, two weeks lead time. Option two is to go with Airparts, I'd like their 5052 which I think would be better but the shipping is a killer to Canada. I think it ends up at $212 CAD a sheet so nearly 4 times as much. I guess I'll go with the 3003 and save the dollars for the shell and all the 14' sheets I need!

[truckasaurus]

Just some snaps showing the early parts of todays work.

-we torched out some cross-members and moved them a little to accommodate decent sized tanks
-added flat stock between the tanks under the main rails so simplify installing the belly pan
-drilled out all the holes from the original suspension into the inland RV mounting plate ready for bolts
-added the 6" x 2" L formed steel that partially drops down from the moved cross-members

Tomorrow we hope to get the 6" x 2" L shaped stuff on one end of the tank cavities and make brackets to mount up the other ends, which will be removable to get the tanks in and out. Maybe we'll repair the holes from old plumbing butchery and get the re-inforcements in on the back cross-members too.

[Zeppelinium]

Excellent. I am following your progress closely. Thanks for the details.

Zep

[truckasaurus]

If the snow isn't too bad we should wrap up welding tomorrow and I'll post up some tank cavity shots.

I have realized that although I've ordered up lots of stuff lately I'll need some Vulkem soon. Specifically I need something to bed the galvanized wheel wells down into on the steel chassis before the floor goes in. Can I use Vulkem 116 for this or do I need something else? maybe butyl tape?

Lastly I was planning on the belly pan attaching to the C channel with mechanical fasteners, no Vulkem, is this correct?

[utee94]

Originally Posted by truckasaurus

Lastly I was planning on the belly pan attaching to the C channel with mechanical fasteners, no Vulkem, is this correct?

I put some vulkem in-between as best I could, both between the channel and bellypan, and the bellypan and outer shell (when you get to that point). And then from the inside, just before installing insulation and reinstalling the ineterior panels, I lined the union of those three sheets of aluminum with butyl tape. But the mechanical fasteners-- specifically solid rivets-- are doing the real work.

Your project is looking good, keep it up!

-Marcus

[r&kweber]

Originally Posted by truckasaurus

I gather the steel is on hand and ready to go so things should get moving on the chassis this week.

I got a quote back on the C channel, $229 for 6 x 8' sections, probably a bit high but I think it'll make the install smoother.

I wanted to order the aluminum sheet for the belly pan but I'm still mulling the options over. 4' x10' sheets of 0.025" 'utility grade', which I think is 3003, are available locally, $56 (CAD) a sheet, two weeks lead time. Option two is to go with Airparts, I'd like their 5052 which I think would be better but the shipping is a killer to Canada. I think it ends up at $212 CAD a sheet so nearly 4 times as much. I guess I'll go with the 3003 and save the dollars for the shell and all the 14' sheets I need!

I had C channel bent in 4' lengths and don't remember paying that much in adjusted USD). They were bent at a right angle, you can adjust as you install the belly if needed.

The belly material I used is 5052-H32 in 0.025. I got 4' x 10' sheets locally for about $25 USD ea. Looks like they stock it in canada:

Alaskan Copper & Brass Company and Alaskan Copper Works

We're at similar stages of work, we just set the shell back on the new floor last weekend.

Ryan.

[r&kweber]

Originally Posted by truckasaurus

If the snow isn't too bad we should wrap up welding tomorrow and I'll post up some tank cavity shots.

I have realized that although I've ordered up lots of stuff lately I'll need some Vulkem soon. Specifically I need something to bed the galvanized wheel wells down into on the steel chassis before the floor goes in. Can I use Vulkem 116 for this or do I need something else? maybe butyl tape?

Lastly I was planning on the belly pan attaching to the C channel with mechanical fasteners, no Vulkem, is this correct?

Our belly skin wraps up and over the C channel. Being wrapped over tight is what keeps it in place till the rivets are in. No vulkem used originally, so we didn't add any either.

[truckasaurus]

Wow, shopping for aluminum sheet is a nightmare! I can find 3003 in 0.025" for the belly pan no problem and I can find 5052 (Thanks for the tip Ryan), now I need to get the 16' 2024 T3, so far I've found 5' x 15' in 0.040" for $300 Canadian. I think the 16' lengths are going to be impossible so I may have to move a joint and settle.

[utee94]

Originally Posted by r&kweber

Our belly skin wraps up and over the C channel. Being wrapped over tight is what keeps it in place till the rivets are in. No vulkem used originally, so we didn't add any either.

I know this was common in the 50s, and Uwe's 63 Olander had it as well I think, but on my 63 Olander the bellypan just slid up but not over. It was riveted in place to the channel before the shell was on, and then later the shell was riveted onto the entire frame/floor assembly. This made for some interesting times removing the bellypan, as there were some semi-blind rivets that you could not see from the exterior, and due to the remains of butyl goop on the interior, you couldn't always see the bucktail inside the channel either. Sliding (and pounding) a metal-capped putty knife took care of them in short order, though.

Those prices were in line with what I paid, truck, I had mine shipped to me by Airparts, Inc. Not sure what their shipping into Canada would cost, though.

Ryan, I wish I had found a local supplier as you did, your 5052 cost maybe 1/3 or less what mine did!

-Marcus

[r&kweber]

Originally Posted by utee94

Ryan, I wish I had found a local supplier as you did, your 5052 cost maybe 1/3 or less what mine did!

-Marcus

Both the salesman and warehouse guy remarked on how cheap aluminum is right now compared to even a year ago.

[Frank's Trailer Works]

Some great work going on here... I wanted to comment on the the plan to sand blast the frame and then POR15. That product requires rust to adhere well. If you are going to sand blast you might want to go with a more traditional primer and top coat. I have had great success with Eastwood products. They make restoration product for classic car restoration. There is a whole line of frame products. The other comment I wanted to make was not to make your frame too rigid. Part of the design of the trailer is to have a certain degree of flex. If you stiffen it up too much, your trailer will not twist as it should going down the road and issues will arise similar to frozen axles.

As Zep said, I am watching very closely....

[truckasaurus]

Thanks for tips Frank, we skipped boxing the frame rails to keep it close to stock in terms of flopability, there is more steel but in my non-expert mind it shouldn't behave too much differently. If I can tow it home tomorrow I'll be able to give it the rear view mirror appraisal (it was very flexible pre welding!).

I might even whip the wheels off the rear axle and the brake assemblies/ shocks for the shorter trip to sandblast city. I figured there'd be less in the way and I don't want the disc blasted. I do want the steel between the axles and shocks abraded and painted though; in just a year they are so rusted you'd think they'd been in the ocean.

[Zeppelinium]

Originally Posted by truckasaurus

Wow, shopping for aluminum sheet is a nightmare! I can find 3003 in 0.025" for the belly pan no problem and I can find 5052 (Thanks for the tip Ryan), now I need to get the 16' 2024 T3, so far I've found 5' x 15' in 0.040" for $300 Canadian. I think the 16' lengths are going to be impossible so I may have to move a joint and settle.

AirParts can ship any length of 4' wide that you want. They roll it so it can ship by UPS.

Zep

[truckasaurus]

That's what I thought but when I checked I was told it's only for .032" or thinner stock. The maximum length of .040" they'll ship is 12' even when rolled. My current plan is to replace the curb side with a 12' piece from a 15' sheet, then the front lower section but instead of ending on the end cap I'll continue just over an extra foot so that it can join up with the next 15' and make it all the way to the rear end cap. Visually the only difference will be a seam at the mid point of the front street side window (about 18" high, and will need a backing piece of channel). I like the idea of .040" over .032" so much so that this seems doable. Price wise it makes almost no difference and this way I get a shiny new front section too!

Granted a coil shipped by UPS would be a lot easier that having to pick up a skid 5' x 15' and having to rent a trailer to do so. How does every approach this hurdle, just use the .032" or is sneaking in an extra joint acceptable?

[r&kweber]

Originally Posted by 62overlander

Some great work going on here... I wanted to comment on the the plan to sand blast the frame and then POR15. That product requires rust to adhere well. If you are going to sand blast you might want to go with a more traditional primer and top coat. I have had great success with Eastwood products. They make restoration product for classic car restoration. There is a whole line of frame products. The other comment I wanted to make was not to make your frame too rigid. Part of the design of the trailer is to have a certain degree of flex. If you stiffen it up too much, your trailer will not twist as it should going down the road and issues will arise similar to frozen axles.

As Zep said, I am watching very closely....

Regarding POR 15 and sandblasting: I was concerned with applying the paint directly over sandblasted metal so I called them up. The tech guy I talked to said you could apply POR directly to sandblasted steel. Any new steel needed to be prepped with marine clean and metal etch, then washed and dried. (I used a blow torch to dry it off -- I'm impatient.) I would be open to looking at Eastwood paints, especially if they are cheaper and/or better

Great thread!

[Frank's Trailer Works]

I am not making the statement that Eastwood products are better... They are just an altenative. A whole debate will be started over this, so be careful.

Why so thick with the belly skin? .032 is as thick as the shell and I do not understand the reason to go so thick with the belly. I started off using .032 but then went to .025. The rear corners go through a very tight bend in two directions and I think you might be fighting the thickness just a bit. Just my two cents. You are fortunate to be able to wrap it without the shell being on, so that might make it easier. One thing that I found was the new material is 48" but the original belly pan was 50" wide material. I have a strip down the center due to this fact.

[truckasaurus]

Update. I'd like .025" for the belly pan, especially for the corners. In case the information is helpful to someone I also found some 105" wide utility grade .040" for $17.75 a foot. At 8' 6" wide and sold on coil (at a truck & trailer repair shop) you could solve the seam down the middle problem. I can see getting one sheet cut and fit correctly on the first try would be something I wouldn't try.

The way I've designed the tank frames and added to the base leg of the main rails means I need one large rectangle of BP over the axles. Then the front and rear section are "normal" for probably ~5 feet leaving just the outside edges from the corners to the wheel wells. I like the idea that it should be simpler to instal but getting the templating spot on will be the challenge, I think...

Last nights snow was quite light and it's expected to creep up to 6c today so I should get welding this afternoon. Also I'm aiming to pick up the air nibblers and shears I ordered from a JET dealer in town (on sale) ready for operation belly on.

[r&kweber]

Originally Posted by 62overlander

I am not making the statement that Eastwood products are better... They are just an altenative. A whole debate will be started over this, so be careful.

Sorry, did not mean to start a Ford/Chevy debate. I don't like those one bit. Lots of good frame paints out there, all terrific!!