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Old 04-23-2009, 03:16 PM   #29
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If the snow isn't too bad we should wrap up welding tomorrow and I'll post up some tank cavity shots.

I have realized that although I've ordered up lots of stuff lately I'll need some Vulkem soon. Specifically I need something to bed the galvanized wheel wells down into on the steel chassis before the floor goes in. Can I use Vulkem 116 for this or do I need something else? maybe butyl tape?

Lastly I was planning on the belly pan attaching to the C channel with mechanical fasteners, no Vulkem, is this correct?

Our belly skin wraps up and over the C channel. Being wrapped over tight is what keeps it in place till the rivets are in. No vulkem used originally, so we didn't add any either.
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Old 04-23-2009, 04:23 PM   #30
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Wow, shopping for aluminum sheet is a nightmare! I can find 3003 in 0.025" for the belly pan no problem and I can find 5052 (Thanks for the tip Ryan), now I need to get the 16' 2024 T3, so far I've found 5' x 15' in 0.040" for $300 Canadian. I think the 16' lengths are going to be impossible so I may have to move a joint and settle.
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Old 04-23-2009, 04:56 PM   #31
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Our belly skin wraps up and over the C channel. Being wrapped over tight is what keeps it in place till the rivets are in. No vulkem used originally, so we didn't add any either.
I know this was common in the 50s, and Uwe's 63 Olander had it as well I think, but on my 63 Olander the bellypan just slid up but not over. It was riveted in place to the channel before the shell was on, and then later the shell was riveted onto the entire frame/floor assembly. This made for some interesting times removing the bellypan, as there were some semi-blind rivets that you could not see from the exterior, and due to the remains of butyl goop on the interior, you couldn't always see the bucktail inside the channel either. Sliding (and pounding) a metal-capped putty knife took care of them in short order, though.

Those prices were in line with what I paid, truck, I had mine shipped to me by Airparts, Inc. Not sure what their shipping into Canada would cost, though.

Ryan, I wish I had found a local supplier as you did, your 5052 cost maybe 1/3 or less what mine did!

-Marcus
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Old 04-23-2009, 05:10 PM   #32
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Ryan, I wish I had found a local supplier as you did, your 5052 cost maybe 1/3 or less what mine did!

-Marcus
Both the salesman and warehouse guy remarked on how cheap aluminum is right now compared to even a year ago.
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Old 04-23-2009, 05:38 PM   #33
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Some great work going on here... I wanted to comment on the the plan to sand blast the frame and then POR15. That product requires rust to adhere well. If you are going to sand blast you might want to go with a more traditional primer and top coat. I have had great success with Eastwood products. They make restoration product for classic car restoration. There is a whole line of frame products. The other comment I wanted to make was not to make your frame too rigid. Part of the design of the trailer is to have a certain degree of flex. If you stiffen it up too much, your trailer will not twist as it should going down the road and issues will arise similar to frozen axles.

As Zep said, I am watching very closely....
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Old 04-23-2009, 08:33 PM   #34
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Thanks for tips Frank, we skipped boxing the frame rails to keep it close to stock in terms of flopability, there is more steel but in my non-expert mind it shouldn't behave too much differently. If I can tow it home tomorrow I'll be able to give it the rear view mirror appraisal (it was very flexible pre welding!).

I might even whip the wheels off the rear axle and the brake assemblies/ shocks for the shorter trip to sandblast city. I figured there'd be less in the way and I don't want the disc blasted. I do want the steel between the axles and shocks abraded and painted though; in just a year they are so rusted you'd think they'd been in the ocean.
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:20 PM   #35
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Wow, shopping for aluminum sheet is a nightmare! I can find 3003 in 0.025" for the belly pan no problem and I can find 5052 (Thanks for the tip Ryan), now I need to get the 16' 2024 T3, so far I've found 5' x 15' in 0.040" for $300 Canadian. I think the 16' lengths are going to be impossible so I may have to move a joint and settle.
AirParts can ship any length of 4' wide that you want. They roll it so it can ship by UPS.

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Old 04-23-2009, 10:44 PM   #36
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That's what I thought but when I checked I was told it's only for .032" or thinner stock. The maximum length of .040" they'll ship is 12' even when rolled. My current plan is to replace the curb side with a 12' piece from a 15' sheet, then the front lower section but instead of ending on the end cap I'll continue just over an extra foot so that it can join up with the next 15' and make it all the way to the rear end cap. Visually the only difference will be a seam at the mid point of the front street side window (about 18" high, and will need a backing piece of channel). I like the idea of .040" over .032" so much so that this seems doable. Price wise it makes almost no difference and this way I get a shiny new front section too!

Granted a coil shipped by UPS would be a lot easier that having to pick up a skid 5' x 15' and having to rent a trailer to do so. How does every approach this hurdle, just use the .032" or is sneaking in an extra joint acceptable?
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Old 04-23-2009, 11:16 PM   #37
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Some great work going on here... I wanted to comment on the the plan to sand blast the frame and then POR15. That product requires rust to adhere well. If you are going to sand blast you might want to go with a more traditional primer and top coat. I have had great success with Eastwood products. They make restoration product for classic car restoration. There is a whole line of frame products. The other comment I wanted to make was not to make your frame too rigid. Part of the design of the trailer is to have a certain degree of flex. If you stiffen it up too much, your trailer will not twist as it should going down the road and issues will arise similar to frozen axles.

As Zep said, I am watching very closely....
Regarding POR 15 and sandblasting: I was concerned with applying the paint directly over sandblasted metal so I called them up. The tech guy I talked to said you could apply POR directly to sandblasted steel. Any new steel needed to be prepped with marine clean and metal etch, then washed and dried. (I used a blow torch to dry it off -- I'm impatient.) I would be open to looking at Eastwood paints, especially if they are cheaper and/or better

Great thread!
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Old 04-24-2009, 04:33 AM   #38
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I am not making the statement that Eastwood products are better... They are just an altenative. A whole debate will be started over this, so be careful.

Why so thick with the belly skin? .032 is as thick as the shell and I do not understand the reason to go so thick with the belly. I started off using .032 but then went to .025. The rear corners go through a very tight bend in two directions and I think you might be fighting the thickness just a bit. Just my two cents. You are fortunate to be able to wrap it without the shell being on, so that might make it easier. One thing that I found was the new material is 48" but the original belly pan was 50" wide material. I have a strip down the center due to this fact.
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Old 04-24-2009, 10:15 AM   #39
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Update. I'd like .025" for the belly pan, especially for the corners. In case the information is helpful to someone I also found some 105" wide utility grade .040" for $17.75 a foot. At 8' 6" wide and sold on coil (at a truck & trailer repair shop) you could solve the seam down the middle problem. I can see getting one sheet cut and fit correctly on the first try would be something I wouldn't try.

The way I've designed the tank frames and added to the base leg of the main rails means I need one large rectangle of BP over the axles. Then the front and rear section are "normal" for probably ~5 feet leaving just the outside edges from the corners to the wheel wells. I like the idea that it should be simpler to instal but getting the templating spot on will be the challenge, I think...

Last nights snow was quite light and it's expected to creep up to 6c today so I should get welding this afternoon. Also I'm aiming to pick up the air nibblers and shears I ordered from a JET dealer in town (on sale) ready for operation belly on.
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Old 04-24-2009, 10:56 AM   #40
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I am not making the statement that Eastwood products are better... They are just an altenative. A whole debate will be started over this, so be careful.
Sorry, did not mean to start a Ford/Chevy debate. I don't like those one bit. Lots of good frame paints out there, all terrific!!
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Old 04-24-2009, 11:05 AM   #41
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Sorry, did not mean to start a Ford/Chevy debate. I don't like those one bit. Lots of good frame paints out there, all terrific!!
Sure, totally agree-- but what I used is better than what you used.




Okay, now let's discuss polishing systems, and then the proper WD hitch!
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Old 04-24-2009, 10:26 PM   #42
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More welding, but just the afternoon....

Also I picked up the Jet tools.

It's hard to see but the frame shots show how the tank frames are coming together. Three sides are permanent and the last short piece will be bolted in place. There is some trimming to be done but they are going to be smooth looking soon. They drop down 5" from the frame which is 1" below the axle bar. There will be enough room for the tanks, insulation, and tank heaters. Steel was added to some cross-members, a couple were perforated with rust, one had no lip on the bottom and I added some to the cross members holding the tanks so I can attach the new belly pan securely on all sides.

I need to decide where to put the grey tank 1 1/2" outlet point. A vertical mount facing the rear would be sleek but going for a hole in the base would drain better. I have plenty of clearance based on a line from tire to bumper for either approach. Right now I think a hole in the bottom with a 90 on it would only drop down a total of maybe 2" so that seems a happy compromise.

I sorted out a mount for the safety chains; a 7/16" bolt hole just behind the coupler and have chosen spots to be reinforced for the Bal jacks. I'll use 3 1/2" x 8" plate on the main Frame rails to box in for the Bal jacks. I added the 12 bolts in the rails to fill the holes in the original chassis, it looks weirdly heavy duty with all that extra hardware.

I was trying to work out where to attach the propane bottle mounting plate but I need to see if I can find a sidewinding jack with the winding bit in front of the 2" column, then I can weld it on with plenty of room around the weight distribution mounts.
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