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Old 05-13-2010, 01:10 PM   #309
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ILS-45 45 Amp Load Center

It does look good, thanks for the tip.
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Old 05-13-2010, 02:03 PM   #310
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My question of the day is about the wiring which I'll be getting stuck into soon. Given that I have a blank slate would the WFCO 8935 ANP 35 Amp from BestConverter WFCO 8935 ANP 35 Amp be a good choice for a non-AC Airstream? And what else should be on the shopping list, battery isolating switch etc?
Truck, I'm using the Progresive Dynamics 45 Amp Converter/Distribution Center that I bought from Vintage Trailer. It's not in yet, so I don't have practical experiecne with it, but Ryan used the same one and he's been happy with his set up. He is currently full-timing down in Oregon.


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I gather 12G/2 NMD is good for the 12V and 14G/2 NMD for the 120V, and something much heavier for the actual battery connections but I'm at a loss finding rubber grommets or stand-offs for running the wire and was wondering what everyone was using? Anyone use aluminum armored cable?
I'm not certain about this, but I think 12v wiring is supposed to be stranded wire (you never see solid wire in a vehicle wiring system, so this is just an assumption of mine, I'm sure someone who actually knows electrical principals will correct me if I'm wrong). I used 12G stranded wires for the 12v and 12/2 NMB for all my 120 except the inlet power which is a 10/2 NMB line from the Marinco outlet to the power center. I also used 4 gauge battery wires from the batteries to the power center (about 10 feet). We bought a ton of 5/8th grommets from Grainger and just used aluminum tape to tack wires up where they needed to be secured accross long runs.

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Old 05-14-2010, 08:34 AM   #311
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Thanks Norm.

OK I'm clear on the distribution center, and I've found the stranded wire in bonded parallel variants (not cheap though!).

Now to outlet boxes. I went to an RV store yesterday to see what receptacles and boxes were available and I don't really like they mount direct to the sheet metal, it seems kind of flimsy. So I googled an alternative and wondered if anyone has used these? I like the new work version as I can secure them to the ribs and hopefully I can get a little foil/ bubble insulation behind them too.

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Old 05-14-2010, 08:49 AM   #312
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me too

Those are the boxes I use. Cheap at big box stores.
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Old 05-14-2010, 10:24 AM   #313
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I've found the stranded wire in bonded parallel variants (not cheap though!).
Yeah, the cost of all my wiring supplies threw me for a little loop. AC and DC wire total set me back about $600 (that doesn't include the distribution center - just wire). I made the mistake of buying my 12 gauge stranded wire by the foot. When we first measured it all out, we thought we needed 240 feet (with 10% for errors and cutoffs) so I thought the 500 foot rolls were a waste. One of two things happened - either the supply store's counter was way off, or our original measurements were way off, because I ended up going back to the store twice and bought a total of about 440 feet (as measured by the store's little couter device that I don't trust). Either way, I would have spent half the money if I had just bought the 500 foot rolls.

I did look at bonded parallel 12 gauge stranded, but it was even more expensive. What I ended up doing was just pulling my two wires together and wrapping a short bit of electrical tape every three feet (this also allows you to buy it in whatever two colors you want). I set the wire roll up out the back window, pulled a bunch of wire off the roll (up and down the trailer), taped it every three feet, and then installed a run of wire. It was more efficient than it sounds in this description. All my 12v wiring probably took less than 8 hours.
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Old 05-14-2010, 10:36 AM   #314
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Those are the boxes I use. Cheap at big box stores.
And they make low-profile versions of many of the junction boxes as well, which might work better in the ~1.5" of space you have between inner and outer skins.
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Old 05-14-2010, 11:11 AM   #315
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hi trucks'

just viewing this thread for the 1st time...

wow, great work and a fine example of rolling your own.

that panel YOU replaced looks just great, as does the frame and other structural bits...

this is a LONG way forward (and backwards) from this older thread...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f381...ent-40443.html

where the "floor was solid" and u worried about doing a good job on the shell without a "professional"

clearly those questions have been answered and the pro has been identified...

cheers
2air'
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Old 05-14-2010, 03:41 PM   #316
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Hey, Truck, none of my 110v ac will be mounted in the walls. I'm going to have outlets framed in on both sides of the bed, one in the bathroom cabinet and one on the bathroom bulkhead accessible from the front. On the "port side," my design is one long countertop from the bedroom bulkhead forward. I'm going to go with a "power strip" approach along the top of the counter running along the port bulkhead. At the forward end of the countertop, I'll drop a normal 110v outlet for the TV.
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Old 05-14-2010, 04:36 PM   #317
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I forgot about a TV! I don't plan on installing one, still you never know. I like the power strip approach but my plan still has some hard wired items. I'm looking at this list for 120 VAC:

Refrigerator (120V and propane, 12DC for control circuit only)
Receptacles (1 outlet) bedroom, (1 outlet GFI) bathroom, (2 outlets GFI) Kitchen
A potential microwave spot
Dinette area (1 or 2 outlets)
A potential side-wall fan in the bathroom (120V) (unlikely)
Fresh water tank heater (120V 9.9A)
Potential air conditional spot.

& For the 12VDC I have:

Refrigerator (control only)
Cooktop/ Stove ignition
Water pump
Water heater (control only)
Vacuflush system (10 Amp vac gen and 10 AMP discharge I think)
Interior lighting, bed, bath, kitchen, Hall, Dinette
Exterior lighting Porch light
Fantastic fans (x2)
Tank monitoring systems

This is going to take a lot of scribbling to get it laid out!

& Thanks for the compliment 2air, I feel about 1/4 of the way through now and it's still chugging along
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Old 05-14-2010, 06:18 PM   #318
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A lot of the new water heaters also have a 120vac heating coil inside them. Something to think about
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Old 05-14-2010, 08:48 PM   #319
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Truck,

My AC/heat pump is on a dedicated circuit. As for receptacles, I'd rather have one too many than one too few. I'm also going to put some 12v receptacles for running the laptop, charging cell phones, etc.

I'm not sure if the fridge will be two-way or three-way, but the LP plumbing and vent are in. I hadn't thought about 12v cooktop ignition. I'm going two burner rather than the OEM three. My wife, though, wants a small oven. If there's a microwave, it will have to ride on the countertop. We're going couch rather than dinette... thus the TV priority. On the 12v side we have two Fantastic fans and three drops for LED puck overhead lights. We're going composting rather than Vacuflush... most of our travels will be in campgrounds with facilities rather than boondocking... and my late fall/winter hunting camps are not conducive to adventures in black water.
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Old 05-16-2010, 08:47 PM   #320
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I'm thinking that I should really get some help working out the vent details about now. I had kind of forgotten that as well as water and grey water vents I also need to vent the refrigerator. The black tank is pretty sorted as I'll just follow the Vacuflush installation instruction).

I scanned a Dometic installation manual (for the 2351) online but couldn't quite figure it all out. Do fridges have a low level and high level vent? and if so is there a square inch area that I need to take account of? What I need to understand is how big a roof vent I should plan on and if I can just run some duct or something inside the wall to get up there.

I know I've read on here somewhere that one plumbing fix involved a special kind of valve or vent that didn't require a thru roof fitting, it's designed for use in residential kitchen island situations where a typical vent isn't possible, if anyone knows what it's called I'd love to use them to cut down on holes I need to keep or cut.

I also saw that Jacob D used a sidewall Westmarine vent for his fresh tank and it looked very cool so if 5/8" diameter allows enough venting I'm keen to go that route too.
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Old 05-16-2010, 11:53 PM   #321
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Here's a link to an Anti-Siphon Interior Vent Cap Thingy. I believe you should only use this for an individual sink fixture . . . your tank(s) should still have a dedicated vent.

Vent Pro - RV Parts, RV Supplies & RV Accessories for 5th Wheels, ToyHaulers, Campers
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Old 05-17-2010, 12:21 AM   #322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truckasaurus View Post
...Do fridges have a low level and high level vent? and if so is there a square inch area that I need to take account of? What I need to understand is how big a roof vent I should plan on and if I can just run some duct or something inside the wall to get up there.
You need to provide an adequate "chimney" for an amonia-based fridge to work. I haven't measured the standard vent channel size on mine, but on reflection it seems like it's 60-80 square inches. You can't get that by venting up between the skins. Your fridge will not work if you don't do this right. Fridge efficiency is improved with increased air flow past the condenser, so a higher exit point is good. The air needs to enter at the bottom of the fridge, either from the side or up through the floor.

Doing it right includes making sure that the "chimney" is sealed to the back of the fridge from bottom to top, like air tight, and against the inside skin as well. This makes the chimney work better and keeps any carbon monoxide from entering the living space inside the trailer.

Quote:
I know I've read on here somewhere that one plumbing fix involved a special kind of valve or vent that didn't require a thru roof fitting, it's designed for use in residential kitchen island situations where a typical vent isn't possible, if anyone knows what it's called I'd love to use them to cut down on holes I need to keep or cut.

I also saw that Jacob D used a sidewall Westmarine vent for his fresh tank and it looked very cool so if 5/8" diameter allows enough venting I'm keen to go that route too.
By code, most Airstream venting is overkill. My Overlander had a vent at the sink and a vent at the tank. I used one of those anti siphon valves at the sink to get rid of one vent pipe. This was a mistake, since that required me to leave the other one in. I am going to reverse thisp--you need a vent at the sink end in order to drain into the tank without sucking the water out of the traps. This vent is adequate for dumping, so the other vent is a code requirement that solves only one problem--where if you didn't have a vent in the tank itself and you parked on a tilt so that the inlet is blocked and gases then build up in the tank (since there is no vent in the tank, forcing gray water back toward the sinks). This is unlikely and only a nuisance--I doubt that enough gas would ever build up to force more than a small amount toward the sinks, never filling the drains.

When you dump with only a vent at the sink end of the drains, that vent will provide plenty of air to the tank.

Zep
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