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01-28-2010, 06:32 AM
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#1
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4 Rivet Member
1960 24' Tradewind
St. Albans
, Vermont
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 308
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Rotten frame photos attached arrgghh
I desperately need opinions from airforums members on what I should do! Colin Hyde (great great guy) just started working on my 1960 Tradewind to replace the floor, axles, etc to get her major parts in order since is way beyond what I am capable of. The floor had some mild rot in the rear and minimal in the front. However when he dropped the belly pan he discovered massive damage and corrosion of the frame. Now we are looking at a MAJOR repair job...he can certainly do the work but now this has become huge financial commitment for us just to get her back to a stable frame with no bells or whistles. What would you do if you were me...cut and run, use the home equity loan, try to find a better trailer, or drink lots of beer? I know ultimately this will be my choice but what did you do when presented with a serious setback with your trailer? See photos...brace yourself!
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01-28-2010, 06:40 AM
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#2
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2 Rivet Member
1963 24' Tradewind
St Louis
, Missouri
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 28
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I say, start with the beer, then get the angle iron and welder out.....
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01-28-2010, 06:50 AM
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#3
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Rivet Master
1967 24' Tradewind
Greenville
, South Carolina
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,107
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Just looked at the photos of the exterior and interior....real nice If you are financially able, fix the frame. Only you can decide what's too much financially. There are people on here that have built entirely new frames.
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01-28-2010, 06:54 AM
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#4
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Moderator
Vintage Kin Owner
...
, ...
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 11,696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2vets
What would you do if you were me...cut and run, use the home equity loan, try to find a better trailer, or drink lots of beer?
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Me Personally:
I'd assess the damage after the floor is removed. It is not uncommon to have frame repair, or rebuilding included in the restoration process so unless the frame is totally trashed I wouldn't let it stop me. If it was a trailer I really liked I'd have no hesitation performing a major frame rebuild, or even building a new frame all together. We're actually planning to overhaul or replace the frame on our 31 footer.
As for your decision: It really boils down to what level of financial and emotional commitment you're willing to accept. As such I'd recommend you follow your gut instinct and read other posts to this thread to help you determine your path.
Oh and beer is always a good option.
Regards,
Kevin
__________________
"One of the best lessons I've learned is that you don't worry about criticism from people you wouldn't seek advice from."
William C. Swinney
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01-28-2010, 07:47 AM
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#5
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Rivet Master
1962 22' Safari
1957 22' Custom
1963 16' Bambi
Vacationland
, Maine
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 956
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2vets
I desperately need opinions from airforums members on what I should do! Colin Hyde (great great guy) just started working on my 1960 Tradewind to replace the floor, axles, etc to get her major parts in order since is way beyond what I am capable of. The floor had some mild rot in the rear and minimal in the front. However when he dropped the belly pan he discovered massive damage and corrosion of the frame. Now we are looking at a MAJOR repair job...he can certainly do the work but now this has become huge financial commitment for us just to get her back to a stable frame with no bells or whistles. What would you do if you were me...cut and run, use the home equity loan, try to find a better trailer, or drink lots of beer? I know ultimately this will be my choice but what did you do when presented with a serious setback with your trailer? See photos...brace yourself!
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Hi 2Vets
Having seen all the photos of your TW and commenting on it's generally VERY good condition and originality, I would say it is very worthwhile to continue with the project.
This may look like a huge and expensive part of the project, but minimal floor rot and rear frame sections are par for the course (I know it looks bad!) The frame repairs are now visable and the rear floor needed attention anyway. Now is the time and once repaired you are good for another forty years.
What would be MUCH more time consuming would be large interior rehabs and exterior panel replacements. Just remember how lucky you are to have found such a nice trailer to begin with.
This is what vintage Airstreaming is all about and you will have great stories to share about the restoration and many happy trails to come.
Gary
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01-28-2010, 08:24 AM
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#6
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4 Rivet Member
1975 31' Sovereign
Houston
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 494
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To each their own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin245
Me Personally:
As for your decision: It really boils down to what level of financial and emotional commitment you're willing to accept.
Kevin
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That says it all.
But if I might add;
So what are you going to do with the trailer when and if it is redone?
Park it nearby as a cabin? Travel? Use it as a clinic annex? It's purpose might be a factor in scope of repair.
Colin is AFAIK (as far as I know) a reputable and honest guy. You are lucky to have him for advice I think. Ask him about other options as in locating different trailer cost vs this refurb.
BTW where is he located now that he has changed outfits?
Why are you interested in a 1960 model with that silly door within a door?
(conversation piece-yes, nostalgic-yes, practical-Not IMHO).
It would also depend on how deep you already are into it. (money already spent).
Do you have a barn or warehouse where you can store the 1960?
If so I'd consider putting it away and finding another more ready to use trailer of the '69-'88 vintage, preferably post '74 with a grey water tank.
Enjoy the new one and make the old one a longer term hobby project. But if you can't keep it out of the weather & moisture the rust will advance too quickly and I'd sell it asap. It is a find for many who are inclined to tackle such a project themselves.
Course you can just spay a few more Calicos and tell Colin to make haste. .
__________________
__________________________
____ d'drummer ____
...aahh..rumm..pu..tum..tummm...
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01-28-2010, 09:38 AM
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#7
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Rivet Master
San Angelo
, Texas
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,254
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"My advice to you is to start drinking heavily"
-Brother Bluto
__________________
Frederic
1971 Sovereign International - SOLD
2004 F-350 King Ranch
AIR # 8239
EX-WBCCI # 8371
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01-28-2010, 09:49 AM
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#8
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Rivet Master
1973 Argosy 26
Norristown
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 645
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Hi 2vets;
Wow! This is not what anyone would wish to find. It is obvious that your frame is beyond repair and you need to replace it. Pending of what you have invested in this trailer and what is going to cost you for off frame restoration, decision belongs to you. We all have different reasons for doing things which others would consider insane. I have restored durring a two year period, and [2000+ of labor hours] and $25K in cost of materials my newly purchased 1973 26' Argosy.
The only componnents I have saved is inner and outer shell. If you can believe it, there was only one reason which drove me to it, the love for my wife. I have spent countless nights sleeping two or three hours per day because my obsession with it would not allow me to sleep. Determined more than ever I have eventually reached the time of our first outing last year. The time of repayment for my efforts came due the day when I showed up at home towing a trailer to be loaded for our first trip. I cannot possibly describe the moment when my wife came running out of the house screaming with joy. My payment was received in full. Each time Friday comes my wife is in her glory. This alone is a well worth while reward for my hard work. Life is fragile and short while your happiness within it cannot be appraised. You need to find your own reason and find a drive to do it, by balancing it against the cost in order to find your answer. Please feel free to read my posts in reference to my restoration. Thanks and good luck. "boatdoc"
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01-28-2010, 09:57 AM
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#9
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Rivet Master
1975 Argosy 26
1963 24' Tradewind
Seattle
, Washington
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,341
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This the rear, correct? It isn't that horrible a job... cut out the rear parts of the frame and splice in new... that said, I have some crossmembers to fix too on my '63. Is cost an issue? You might ask if it's any cheaper for you to do the gutting and then bring it back to fix.. gutting is the "easy" part. I'm sure you'd save some labor dollars there.
That said, Collin should have that fixed up well for a long time after.
If you just want to camp, I agree that an '70's trailer MIGHT be a better start, but be aware they're no turn key trailers either. I replace almost every system in my 76 Argosy.
What ballpark figure are you looking at, and what scope of work? Both before and after the discovery?
Marc
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01-28-2010, 10:02 AM
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#10
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Rivet Master
2022 25' International
Savage
, Minnesota
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my1ststream
I say, start with the beer, then get the angle iron and welder out.....
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I'd say start with the angle iron and the welder, and then celebrate with beer.
__________________
"I've got aluminum fever, and the only prescription, is more AIRSTREAM!!!"
'64 Safari Resoration Blog ("May"):
https://ts8501.blogspot.com/
TAC MN-6
WBCCI/VAC 11736
AIR 25979
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01-28-2010, 10:12 AM
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#11
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Rivet Master
1957 22' Caravanner
Port Hadlock
, Washington
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 864
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Oh, what a disheartening sight.
But, I clearly remember your pictures from your earlier posts and you've got a really good shell and great original cabinetry inside. You've got a really nice trailer with frame issues.
You're in the right place with Colin and whether it's repair or replace on the frame, you can now set it up exactly the way you want to for frame mounted holding tanks. And, you'll never have to worry about the frame again.
Any 50 year old trailer is going to have issues, somewhere. Probably several somewheres. Just can't touch what we'll have when the work is done, though. My trailer's original owner is 92. I want my trailer to still be around when she is 92 as well.
Don't quit.
steve
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01-28-2010, 10:41 AM
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#12
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Rivet Master
1967 26' Overlander
Winston Salem
, North Carolina
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 524
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Welcome to the world of vintage Airstreams.
When the underbelly comes off, who knows what you will find.
It appears you have a nice unit.
Maybe you just could have the frame repaired and park it till something else comes along in better shape.
Good Luck with your final decision.
__________________
Greg
Winston Salem, NC
WBCCI 5218,
Corresponding Secretary Piedmont NC Unit 161,
1967 Overlander International.
1979 Avion 30ft rear bath
TV's 88 Chevy Suburban 454, 3:42, TH400
95 Cadillac FW Brougham, LT1,3:42, 7k tow pk.
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01-28-2010, 11:12 AM
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#13
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Rivet Master
1958 26' Overlander
Mesa
, Arizona
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,742
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I know it's a bummer for you but all of us who own vintage Airstreams have gone through this more or less. I've invested $15k in my Airstream and it's been worth it.
If I was you I would repair the frame. It looks like there only a few bad areas from the pics, but I don't have a complete view like you do. If it's just those few bad areas, scab weld new angle iron and move on. I think you got a pretty nice Airstream there. Keep it and fix her up.
__________________
1958 Overlander
2011 Wolf Creek 850N TC
2011 Ford F-250 Crewcab (6.2L), 3.73RE
WBCCI #5661/AIR #5661/TAC # AZ-6
4CU 1st VP
My '58 Overlander Restoration and Travel Blog:
https://mellomikesairstreams.blogspot.com/
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01-28-2010, 01:00 PM
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#14
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Vintage Alum. Enthusiast
1959 24' Tradewind
Phoenix
, Arizona
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: I currently do not own a 2nd Airstream
Posts: 4,360
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That is a sad site. I'm a bit partial, so I say fix her up right. Now is the time to put those black and grey water tanks in and get the frame repaired as well. It will hold up another 50 years and probably longer. Do it right and do it now. After all, it IS an early TradeWind. They just don't get any better.
Brad
FF
__________________
4CU 2699 / AIR 10 / TAC AZ-1
I'm haunted by aluminum.
Charter Member of the 4 Corners Unit.
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01-28-2010, 01:05 PM
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#15
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Rivet Master
1958 26' Overlander
Mesa
, Arizona
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,742
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfshr
That is a sad site. I'm a bit partial, so I say fix her up right. Now is the time to put those black and grey water tanks in and get the frame repaired as well. It will hold up another 50 years and probably longer. Do it right and do it now. After all, it IS an early TradeWind. They just don't get any better.
Brad
FF
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Well said, Brad.
__________________
1958 Overlander
2011 Wolf Creek 850N TC
2011 Ford F-250 Crewcab (6.2L), 3.73RE
WBCCI #5661/AIR #5661/TAC # AZ-6
4CU 1st VP
My '58 Overlander Restoration and Travel Blog:
https://mellomikesairstreams.blogspot.com/
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01-28-2010, 02:35 PM
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#16
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4 Rivet Member
1960 24' Tradewind
St. Albans
, Vermont
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 308
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Thank you everyone for your replies- if I talked about this to my non-airstream friends they would think I was absolutely nuts! To Distantdrummer- I would have to spay ALOT of cats to afford this! On top of everything, my husband is a cow vet and I am a small animal vet ,so if it breathes or bleeds we are good to go, but if it has electrical wires and axles we are kind of pathetic! The good news is that my pets are REALLY good listeners-except for the miniature donkeys.... they are without manners!!
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01-28-2010, 02:54 PM
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#17
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1 Rivet Member
1952 25' Cruiser
Foresthill
, California
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 14
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We encountered similar sights on the frame of our 1952 Cruiser. For me the decision was easy. Time to build a new frame. Make it new and stronger to last the rest of my life and prbably my kids as well.
All the rest of the your time and investment with be built off of that frame so thats the way to go.
As mentioned you now have the opportunity to place holding tanks as well.
For all the steel (angle iron and 2"x3" rectangle) to build the frame was under $400 (wholesale) and we (my father-in-law & I) cut and welded the frame in a weekend.
Get er done!
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01-28-2010, 03:44 PM
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#18
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Rivet Master
1963 26' Overlander
Austin
, Texas
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,640
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I had to replace a lot of steel at the back of my Overlander. I pulled out all of the furniture myself, pulled the bellypan down myself, removed the lower interior skins myself, and pulled out all of the floor myself.
Then I paid a welder to cut out and replace the back three cross-members. The whole job took him a couple of hours and cost a little over $200.
I can see this increasing the cost of a renovation/restoration, but even replacing every single x-member in the entire trailer with new steel wouldn't cost more than $1200 or so using this method. If your current trailer restorer wants to charge significantly more than that, then you might consider pulling it back, doing all the prep yourself, and then calling a welder to take care of the metalwork.
Even an inexperienced DIYer can handle the non-steel-related prep work involved. It's messy and dirty and time-consuming, but it isn't difficult.
Good luck!
-Marcus
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01-28-2010, 03:53 PM
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#19
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Rivet Master
1958 30' Sovereign of the Road
Plymouth
, New York
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,776
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Lift her
Seeing that frame.. I'd go all the way.. lift the body, get the old frame out, and pull her to a steel shop to replicate a new frame, then back to Colin to put the body back on.. it's probably the quickest and best, in the long run, thing to do. Of course, it's gonna cost!!!
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01-28-2010, 04:38 PM
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#20
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3 Rivet Member
1962 26' Overlander
Daleville
, Alabama
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 144
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I just looked at your pictures and she is lovely. We hope to start removing the floor this weekend in our 62 Overlander and we expect to find just what you did. If you can remove all the interior yourself that should save a lot on labor costs. Its taken us 4 days to get to this stage and thats hubby and I working evenings. (Lots of coffee, lots of laughs and a few Captain Morgan Private Stock). Also for lack of a large enough building, we have "Bonnie" parked right next to our deck behind our home.So I say please give her a name and make her well again. Susan
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