removing floor without removing shell

nevisstudio · 07-18-2005, 04:37 PM

hello...

was wondering if anyone has tried removing floor without removing shell...i know i saw a post where someone did, but a while back...

were going to try......

thanks
rich

59toaster · 07-18-2005, 06:29 PM

It can be done but quite honestly its a pain in the butt.

You have to put the new floor panels in cut in half. If you are just replace one or two pieces of floor yeah go for it but if you are replacing the WHOLE floor You are only 200 or so rivets away form having the shell off. That sounds like a lot but its only about 1 hour to drill that many out.

You will more then make up that hour and the couple hours replacing said rivets in how fast you will actually be able to install the new floor. Also put some though to having a seam down the center. You are loosing strength. A full sheet of Ply across the full width is going to be more structural sound and if you are using tile or a Sheet flooring then you have another seam to deal with that may start to show through.

Once we got the body off My wife and I installed the whole floor with Sheet Vinyl in about 5 hours.

I highly recommend a sheet vinyl flooring even if you plan to put a floating wood floor. The Sheet floor will protect the wood deck from water. Seal the wood with a fiberglass resin as well. http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...01/673/11160/4

If you have enough rot that you feel that you need to replace the whole floor then you probably also have some frame repairs as well. Having the body off will make that easier.

If you do piece it in DO NOT put a seam over the main frame rails. Over the cross members is fine. But over the frame rails will put a lot more stress on the outriggers. The frame rail will become a fulcrum point of the weight of the shell on the ends of the out riggers down the sides. Put the seam down the center with a lap board from the bottom. Like this ---_--- with construction adhesive to help bod it along with Elevator bolts. That will be the most sound joint and prevent a seam over a fulcrum point.

Most of the floor repair info is listed in the forum under Interior. Some in the sub forum "General" but most under the floor section.
http://www.airforums.com/forum...isplay.php?f=7

Also look in the photo album for stuff by WilliamHenshel He has a huge amount of pictures of replacing the floor.
http://www.airforums.com/photo...500&userid=155

driftwood · 07-18-2005, 06:40 PM

Rich,

Seems to me that Ron Kaes did just that. Try searching his posts and going to his photo gallery here on the Forums.

http://www.airforums.com/photo...00&userid=4331

48_liner · 07-18-2005, 07:25 PM

My wife and i just purchased a 1948 Liner and would like to know how the proper way of removing the shell is. We've seen others do it and would like to repair the frame first before restoring the rest of the trailer

wkerfoot · 07-18-2005, 07:55 PM

The 1948 may have a pipe frame, if so, your procedures are different than for a ladder frame. I believe that Fred Coldwell has either posted on this forum or written in Airstream Life how to repair the pipe frame. I look forward to seeing your progress. I am working on a 1954 Double Door Liner myself.

Bill

Quote:

Originally Posted by 48_liner

My wife and i just purchased a 1948 Liner and would like to know how the proper way of removing the shell is. We've seen others do it and would like to repair the frame first before restoring the rest of the trailer

59toaster · 07-18-2005, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 48_liner

My wife and i just purchased a 1948 Liner and would like to know how the proper way of removing the shell is. We've seen others do it and would like to repair the frame first before restoring the rest of the trailer

Pictures?

My coach is a 59. The 48 may very.

First thing to know about how they were assembled back then is they assembled them upside down.

Wood deck was laid out.

Frame laid on top of it. Frame bolted to the deck from and C-Channel from the other side.

Plumbing and wiring installed.

Belly pan installed.

Then it was flipped over.

The shell was partly assembled including full end caps ribs and the upper exterior skin.

Body set on floor assembly and the ribs riveted to the U-Channel

Lower skin installed.

So knowing this you now understand the Body is installed over the belly pan.

Williams link is in my above post.

Here is a vintage picture showing the floor assembly being flipped onto its wheels.

PizzaChop · 07-18-2005, 08:02 PM

Norm & Rich,

While it is true that I have replaced two full sheets (4x8) of flooring, it was done in two different trailers and was the rear most floor section.

'72 Overlander

'73 Sovereign

I think the problem with full sheet replacement throughout without removing the shell is that there is a C-channel that starts just forward of the last sheet that the plywood fits into.

It is certainly possible to create enough separation between the frame and shell at the ends but I'm not sure how well you could do it temporarily in the middle. (My mind is racing though, as I think of how this might be accomplished.)

I don't blame anyone for not wanting to do a shell-off when you consider all of the disassembly required. (Actually disassembly is kind of fun, it's the reassembly that gets me.) (Of course, to replace any section of the floor, you've got to disassemble/remove cabintry and appliances.) I'm just wondering if you could jack up the shell 2" in sections (rear, middle, forward), slide a perfectly cut piece of plywood (whatever the exact width should be, maybe 96", I'm not sure) in from one side and gently pull out on the sidewall to allow the plywood to fit into the C-channel.

I'm not sure this would be a factory endorsed method.

Another option would be to try to slide each piece in from the back but you'd probably have a heck of a time sliding a 4x8 piece of plywood 12' with channel on both sides. (You'd have to jack up shell in this situation also.)

Toaster's idea is probably a lot easier and if you cut your seam in the middle with a 45 deg angle (for that matter, maybe even angle your direction, an engineer could evaluate that one for us) and put a "bandaid" piece underneath, glued and screwed.

I do have some rotten floor to replace up front in the Sovereign so when I get to it, I may try a few different techniques (or maybe not).

48_liner · 07-18-2005, 08:05 PM

Boy, this looks like fun. Our liner has a ladder frame so I hope it will be easier on us. Thanks for all your help.

Bob

malconium · 07-21-2005, 07:11 PM

The following thread has a list of some information about the various floor replacement techniques that I used in my posting #3 of that thread.

http://www.airforums.com/forum...ad.php?t=15492

I replaced the floor on my 1973 31' unit without removing the shell. I also did not remove all of the belly pan and only the parts of the banana wrap that needed to be replaced. I did have some frame repair welding done in place and painted the frame. I had the extra challenge of having my AS parked on a sloping driveway and did not paricularly want the extra challenge of having to support the body too on that slope. The shell on made a reasonable shelter for working in and a place to contain my tools when I was not working on it. I added a seem down the middle of the floor but not for the sheets of plywood at the ends. Those I was able to put in first on the diagonal and rotate into position. I do agree that everthing would be more accessible if the whole body is off but I just did not feel it was desirable in my case. I am satisfied with the results.

I think the bottom line is that there are a lot of ways to replace a floor and you need to pick a technique that meets your needs. How extensive the repair needed beyond the floor itself is indeed a factor. Also some folks have needed to take the frame to some other place to have it worked on hence the desirability of removing the body.

Malcolm

nevisstudio · 07-22-2005, 07:43 AM

thanks malcom...

here is why i want to try replacing the floor without removing the shell...

we are doing a wheelchair accesible AS...in doing so we are trying to leave as much open space under the cabnets, appliances, etc...so my foot peddels can clear the area when turning..so we need to hide some components...so we are thinking inbetween the main trailer structure...have a welded trays that could hold things like batteries, heater, floor lights, etc....the center of the floor can be on hinged doors so they can be accessed....ok i know what your thinking...i need the structure of the wood to help with the twisting(torque) of the body....so here is my solution...cut the csenter of the old floor out the piece in the new pieces from the outside to the closest trailer beam..here we are thinking to weld pins to hold the wood securely to the beam and then reinforce the "ladder" down the middle....it seems do-able(fun structures project)....

so my question is what issues arose that i could get a heads up on...

this is very alternative but with some elbow grease could be a new way of looking at trailer space use....

any insight from anyone is wanted....were going for it soon...

thanks
rich

malconium · 07-24-2005, 01:48 AM

It seems like basically a sound enough idea. You will find that there are some things already in the middle area and that the space between the belly pan and the bottom of the floor is only about 5+ inches. Taller items would need more space than what is available so you will need to have the trays drop below the belly pan at least for some things (a battery for example). That would generally be possible except where the axles cross under the belly pan. You might end up needing to create a custom belly pan. You are likely to be adding some additional weight with any steel you add so I would suggest you go easy on that score. Maybe the trays could be a mesh or screen of some sort to reduce weight. Maybe the thing to do would be to weld a kind of extender onto the bottom of each of the cross-members at least between the lengthwise rails. You could then attach the new belly pan to the bottom of the lowered cross members in the same way it is attached now (with rivits). Access hatches from above might not need to open the full length of the floor. Perhaps your plywood could come all the way across in some places. Some things don't need frequent access and might be OK to access from below through removable parts of the belly pan.

I think most of the cabinetry basically sits on the floor. You might want to be carefull about hanging too much weight on the walls without having some support from the floor at least at periodic intervals. Also the standard water heater and heater vent through the side walls and might be hard to vent from underneath. You might want to consider alternative types of units if you can find them. Something that can use a chimney that could be routed up might be just the ticket.

I, for one, would be interested in more detail as your plans unfold. Underfloor storage seems like a good idea to me in general.

Malcolm

59toaster · 07-24-2005, 10:47 PM

I agree with Malcolm on the watching the weight on the walls. The interior cabinets do add structure. The Wardrobe on ours was one of the few things holding the curb side together when we towed ours home. I was horrified when I started checking things out to find how much floor rot we really had.

To attach weight to the walls that does not brace off the floor may cause a pendulum effect with the body. The body would flex back and forth where it is open between the floor.

I understand your need for open areas so I would recommend placing a support wall in locations where they will give you good room to move around and bridge to a second support to help with the weight. That will give the cross brace the body needs. and put the weight back to the floor.

I cant stress how light these frames and in particular the outriggers are. With the floor off the frame I could bend out riggers side to side BY HAND.

You must always keep in mind that this is a Monocoque structure. When ever you do anything such as remove a section of floor down the center there is a loss in over all structure. I would be hesitate to do this in to many locations. I would try to locate items in other locations if possible. Battery can ride on the tongue behind the tanks. Stuff like Fuse boxes can be in arms of the Sofa, Water tank and heater under sofa or bed. Intelechager under Bed or sofa. You might be able to get away with just a Heat strip in the A/C unless you plan a lot of winter camping. If you plan to do winter camping the a wall mounted radiant might be a good choice over a forced air unit that requires an air handler and pipes. Couple small 12v fans in strategic locations to move the heat around.