Rear separation fix fail?

[Hillbilly75]

We followed the instructions for repairing the rotten floor in our rear bath 75 sovereign given by Inland Andy and got mostly great results. We weren't sure about how high to jack the frame before riveting but we brought it up until the old rivet holes seemed to match everywhere. The variable of course being the top seam where we had cut the quarter panel skin. More on that later. Anyway, after raising the frame and floor we checked inside and out and were elated about the closet doors not binding, the tambour doors of the bathroom cabinets aligning, etc. But the fantastic thing was that the camper door was closing and latching perfectly! So we decided to begin riveting. After a couple evenings of work we had everything riveted and watched as our son lowered the tongue so we could remove the jackstands. Pretty impressive! The tongue did have to lower a little before we could see daylight between the frame and the stands. Removed the stands, brought the tongue back to level, and the outside still looked good. The closet doors are still operating just fine, etc. However, once again, the darn door is off kilter! It is cocked upward in the opening almost as badly as before and the bolt is higher than the strike pocket. So, what to do now? Thought about removing the rivets on top and bottom and see if we can raise it again, but not sure it will work. Maybe the skin just wasn't stretched out all the way until it took on the weight of the frame? I need some pointers here, for sure.

[Hillbilly75]

[Hillbilly75]

The first picture shows how far the separation was before raising the frame.
Second picture is so you won't ask if I remembered to bolt the floor and channel to the frame. Grate 8 bolts every 4-5 inches all the way around.
Third picture is under the hatch where I had to put a patch over the badly torn edge of the rear skin. You can see the caulking where the skin doesn't come completely down to the bumper plate.


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[J. Morgan]

In my experience you need to be pretty aggressive with both the frame and the body because the frame will spring back, and the body will have bent down over the years.

After getting the frame right to fit the body, and the body bolted down, I was VERY aggressive with a jack near the rear frame rails of my trailer to straighten body and frame simultaneously.

After straightening I welded reinforcement to the bottom of the frame to keep what I had gained. The frame will really want to bend where it is notched for the axles.

1/2 Ton 4WD Truck, 72 Sovereign Hensley Arrow

[Hillbilly75]

Would that require removing the axles? Maybe I should drop the belly and see if there is any weakness in the frame. I guess having been flexed downward for several years could have caused a crease somewhere. What I have now is very solid. No squeaking in the floor, no movement of the bumper, just not lifted as high as I had intended.


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[J. Morgan]

Originally Posted by Hillbilly75

Would that require removing the axles? Maybe I should drop the belly and see if there is any weakness in the frame. I guess having been flexed downward for several years could have caused a crease somewhere. What I have now is very solid. No squeaking in the floor, no movement of the bumper, just not lifted as high as I had intended.


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Yea, I did all of this when I was changing out the axles. For my trailer this made a huge difference.


1/2 Ton 4WD Truck, 72 Sovereign Hensley Arrow

[Hillbilly75]

I noticed the word "aggressively". Did you raise it higher than intended so it had room to spring back some after reinforcing, or did it stay where you put it once the welding was done? Asking all these questions because I'm not a welder. I would probably be able to take it to the vocational school welding instructor though.

[Sovereign75]

Can you point me toward the steps you reference from Inland Andy? I'm looking at basically the same problems with my '75 Sovereign. Thanks.

[sailormom]

Hillbilly--sorry to barge on your question but we have a somewhat similar issue and the same questions (except we actually have a small crease/bend behind the axle that causes similar "alignment" issues).

What J. Morgan has posted makes total sense to me (at least given the nature of the bending situation on my own trailer which isn't just a little bend might be different for yours). Here is my question--if Hillbilly has fixed his rear end issue and reattached the frame but can't weld reinforcements there "in place" and has to take it somewhere for welding--doesn't the bouncing up and down even further stress his rear end repair job? In other words, if the trailer is prone to returning to its drooping state even in his case where his trailer was just sitting in place, then wouldn't it naturally tend to stress his frame to skin reattachment even more in transit? And when you take it to a welder how do you explain to them exactly what "level" you want the trailer to be (post reinforcement)?

Thanks all

[GMarugg]

I have heard about this, in regards to rear bath. Has the cause been identified? Is it metal fatigue over time miles? water damage? a design issue related to the weight of the tub?

[J. Morgan]

What gets these trailers is rough roads and worn out axles.

I had my truck hooked to the trailer and I used a big bottle jack about three feet from the bumper of the trailer and I lifted aggressively on each side several times.

My goal was to lift until I had the bow in the sides over the wheels gone.

I was mostly successful.

If I remember I will shoot some pics tomorrow.

This DID straighten the trailer, frame, shell, and everything.

1/2 Ton 4WD Truck, 72 Sovereign Hensley Arrow

[J. Morgan]

If a person didn't have to go far over rough roads the shell wouldn't come back down much I don't think, but I did weld my supports in while it jacked up in the rear.

So far I have kept all I gained, and it is no longer downhill into the bathroom.

I am sure that this procedure is not without risk, but it worked for me. Frankly it is amazing how strong these trailers are when they are buttoned up.

Essentially I was lifting the trailer from the jack to the hitch, and then going inside and jumping...

I am interested to know what it would do with the crease.

1/2 Ton 4WD Truck, 72 Sovereign Hensley Arrow

[sailormom]

Thanks J Morgan! If we try it we will let you know.

[Hillbilly75]

Sovereign 75, here is a link to the thread on this subject I found most helpful. Look for the instructions a few posts from the top.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22906

[GMarugg]

I recently purchased a 1982 excella. I know the axles are different on an airstream and the book says do not jack it up on the axles. When I crawl under it, the axles look bent. I have to imagine that someone over the years have jacked it up using the axles. Is this a significant issue? What action if any should I take?

[n2916s]

Originally Posted by GMarugg

I recently purchased a 1982 excella. I know the axles are different on an airstream and the book says do not jack it up on the axles. When I crawl under it, the axles look bent. I have to imagine that someone over the years have jacked it up using the axles. Is this a significant issue? What action if any should I take?

Nope, your axles are fine. I know it sounds strange but they are actually bent to align them. Pretty much every Airstream you look under will exhibit some arc to the axle housings.

Now it is possible that your axles are shot. The dura torque features rubber rods as part of the axle assembly and they tend to age out by 25 years or so. There is a nice article posted in the Inland RV web site about how to determine their condition.

But the curve is as it should be.

Mike

[GMarugg]

Thanks for the information

[Hillbilly75]

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

What gets these trailers is rough roads and worn out axles.


...My goal was to lift until I had the bow in the sides over the wheels gone.

I was mostly successful.

If I remember I will shoot some pics tomorrow.

This DID straighten the trailer, frame, shell, and everything.

1/2 Ton 4WD Truck, 72 Sovereign Hensley Arrow

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[Hillbilly75]

I'm getting closer to trying this every time I think about it. One thing is, I don't have the side bulge that you describe. However, if I jacked the frame back up like I had it before riveting, then raised it a little more, taking out the slight gap between the bottom of the skin and the he bumper, as well as the gap at the top (left by the saw kerf from cutting the skin), I think there would be less than an inch I could gain of "tightening" the skin. And I don't think that would be enough to straighten out the door.

Second thing is, in reference to the repair job failing while in transit-- I would worry about that at all. I couldn't believe how solid that system is when you have it all riveted in place! I jumped on the bumper and the thing didn't even budge, whereas you could move it with one foot before.

What I'm thinking about is putting jacks where I had them without removing any rivets, jacking up carefully to see if I can get to where the door looks right without breaking something, and then measure how far I had to raise it. This should tell me whether we are talking an inch or less, or whether there's another problem to fix. I would say quite possibly after several years of the edge of the floor rotting away, allowing the rest of the floor and frame to hang under all that weight, the old frame just isn't as strong as it used to be. It probably needs some help remembering its original shape.

Thanks for shooting me all the great information and ideas!




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[J. Morgan]

You might be surprised how much difference raising the back up an inch can make.

When I did this to my trailer the shell was firmly attached to the frame. I bent everything at one time.


1/2 Ton 4WD Truck, 72 Sovereign Hensley Arrow