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Old 04-03-2005, 07:22 PM   #1
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Question Rear end sag, then collapse on maiden voyage ;(

what is in the rear end underneath the bath that just fell out on the road? I just purchased this International 1979 Airstream, it looks like sheet metal with a lot of circles and hoses with clamps that ripped loose, anywhere to go for a diagram? Its not in my owners nor service manual.
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Old 04-03-2005, 07:42 PM   #2
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Bummer of a first post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ravholette
what is in the rear end underneath the bath that just fell out on the road?
What a terrible discovery - but have cheer, not all is lost.

Might I suggest multiple searches using various key words - Rear Sag, Rear Bath Black Tank, Replace Belly Pan, etc.

Many owners of pre 80's trailers are currently "into" the underneath section on their rebuilds - current and older threads contain many photos.

The correct answer for your question, other than possibly the black tank (depending on how far back you "lost it"), is "not much". Search out where the lost hoses started from or went to, and things should fall into place.

Look at it this way, if it fell out, it needed to be replaced.
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Old 04-03-2005, 08:25 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravholette
what is in the rear end underneath the bath that just fell out on the road? I just purchased this International 1979 Airstream, it looks like sheet metal with a lot of circles and hoses with clamps that ripped loose, anywhere to go for a diagram? Its not in my owners nor service manual.
Here is an exploded view from a '76 manual
Tough luck on your first trip!
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Old 04-23-2005, 03:07 PM   #4
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Would you happen to have the exploded view for a 1970 overlander? I sure would appreciate it.
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Old 04-24-2005, 04:00 AM   #5
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Try this...

Let's see if this works...
'Click on the schematic itself or hit the button in the lower right hand corner of the schematic once you see the menu appear in the upper left hand side of it. It should expand. From there, you could view it on any photo management programs that allow you to expand it further.'
Btw, sorry to hear of your problems.
Good luck to you..
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Old 04-24-2005, 07:03 AM   #6
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Rear End Flashing Improvements

Ravholette,

Sorry to hear of your experience. This is fixable (see my pics) but it isn't very much fun.

I replaced the floor (and all that entails) last March and am doing it again on a center bath unit right now (spent 3 hours with grinder/wire wheel and am ready to start welding/adding support to the frame).

I hate to be the one telling you this, but it gets worse before it gets better. If the black tank fell out, it's because the tank supports rusted out and need to be replaced (along with whatever frame rails are missing (rusted)).

There are probably a few signs that might have indicated this before you bought it, but if you're like I was, wouldn't know what they were. I mean, most sellers would probably frown on bringing a drill and removing the belling pan/banana wrap to inspect before buying (although that's just what I'd do if I had it to do over again). I paid $4500 for the '72 Overlander (Jan 04), all appliances working, all original, and a month later, I was tearing it apart (water heater leaked, toilet leaked and was ugly, furnace has leaky control valve, and I just replaced the refrig last month) and I was replacing "original" appliances.

You need to put it up on blocks (see Dennis' thread) so you can work under it (I tried it this time around and it makes it a lot easier with the extra 6" to crawl under) and remove both rear banana wraps as well as the center belly pan (at least 6' forward), whatever is left of it. (Wear goggles and keep your mouth closed.) (Oh yeah, park it where you can keep it for a while.) After inspection, let us know what you find and we can go from there!

Dennis - If you look at my pics, you'll see I have quite a bit of corrosion where the rear skin meets the rear angle support. I removed the angle and wire brushed it well (it's in pretty good shape, actually) but the aluminum flashing below it is toast as well as the last frame cross member. (Actually, if I can remove the rust from that cross member and seal it, I'll keep it and reinforce it.)

My question is.....is the rust problem here just a result of the vulkem seal failing at the base of the steel angle support and the flat aluminum flashing? It seems like this is a prescription for rust once the seal fails. Have you (or anyone else) tried adding an extra piece of aluminum flashing (90 deg) on the rear side of the steel angle to deflect the water back and keep it from traveling forward under the angle? Does this sound like a good idea?

Also, as all of the corrosion on the rear skin is under the beltline, can I just treat the affected area with OSPHO, put it back together and forget about it, or should I be looking to replace some exterior skin in the back?

Your thoughts please....

P.S. - I'm afraid my Sovereign project is in a bit worse shape than your's.
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Old 04-24-2005, 09:38 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravholette
what is in the rear end underneath the bath that just fell out on the road? I just purchased this International 1979 Airstream, it looks like sheet metal with a lot of circles and hoses with clamps that ripped loose, anywhere to go for a diagram? Its not in my owners nor service manual.
I bet the "little circles" you are seeing are the styrofoam inserts that provide the slope for the tanks, I haven't gotten into my rear tank area so I don't have pictures....yet

I am not sure when AS went to that system...or why. But I am sure someone has addressed it somewhere....

Sorry to hear about your problems, but they can be fixed.

Aaron
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Old 04-24-2005, 07:10 PM   #8
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Dissimilar metals???

Quote:
Originally Posted by PizzaChop
.....it gets worse before it gets better. If the black tank fell out, it's because the tank supports .....
Dennis - If you look at my pics, you'll see I have quite a bit of (corrosion) where the rear skin meets the rear angle support.....My question is.....is the rust problem here just a result of the vulkem seal failing at the base of the steel angle support and the flat aluminum flashing? It seems like this is a prescription for rust once the seal fails. Have you (or anyone else) tried adding an extra piece of aluminum flashing (90 deg) on the rear side of the steel angle to deflect the water back and keep it from traveling forward under the angle? Does this sound like a good idea?

Also, as all of the corrosion on the rear skin is under the beltline, can I just treat the affected area with OSPHO, put it back together and forget about it, or should I be looking to replace some exterior skin in the back?

Your thoughts please....
.......

Ron:

I tend to think that ALL things have a finite life....granted, if you have the bucks (Jay Leno comes to mind here) you can completely rebuild it and have a brand new 30 year old Airstream....Time and Money....

What works for me...if I can put it back together an am sure it will last for 5 to 10 years, I feel good about it.....also, with just a bit of extra materials and time, in many cases I have found it can be put back together BETTER than new, albeit with a few added pounds here and there....you have to call your own shot on that.

On the dissimilar metal....sometimes it do, and sometimes it don´t.....
there are MANY places on the ´78 Sovereign where steel is in direct contact with the aluminum skin....having said that, the worst corrosion I have found is where there has been evidence of water....the rear ¨C¨channel where I had to replace the rearward 6¨of wood, and the belly pan fasteners (about half of which were steel).....

Personally, I am going to reseal all of the seams, and then do a strong water blast check before buttoning anything up....I´m in my mid fifties....I really don´t need it to last ANOTHER 30 years.

As long as I am honest with the next owner when I sell it, I will sleep well.


Ouch - that hurt when I realized what I typed about how long I will need it to last - but it IS the truth....my job training and philosophy of ¨build it to last forever¨ may be in jeapordy.
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Old 04-25-2005, 07:48 AM   #9
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I want 30 Years!!!

Dennis,

Hey, I'm younger than you and expect another 30 years out of this coach!!

I've ordered all new appliances and plan to re-plumb it so I better get at least 10 years.

I just finished welding up the frame last night and am ready to treat, prime, and paint today. I hope to slide a full sheet of plywood (like last time) tonight or tomorrow.

I will try my extra flashing idea!

Rav - Are you taking notes? Easley, SC isn't that far from Danielsville, GA.
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Old 04-25-2005, 02:44 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ravholette
what is in the rear end underneath the bath that just fell out on the road? I just purchased this International 1979 Airstream, it looks like sheet metal with a lot of circles and hoses with clamps that ripped loose, anywhere to go for a diagram? Its not in my owners nor service manual.
OUCH!
I am sorry to hear about the demise of your trailer's rear end.
I can offer up a free copy of anything in the 1978 Airstream Service Manual if that would help? I have the complete service manual here for that year. It might help you with fixing your problem.
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Old 04-25-2005, 07:19 PM   #11
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Dennis, so far, I haven’t found any indication that the rust/corrosion on my TT was caused by dissimilar metals. Water on the other hand….This trailer leaks like a sieve around the beltline. This has caused much rust of the outriggers forward of the wheel wells. It’s not as bad as what Ron (Pizzachop) has on his new trailer, but enough that some welding is going to be needed.

Ron, cool ideas on how to repair the base of the outriggers (just looked at you latest pictures). I have zero experience welding, so I don’t have much knowledge/creativity there.

Dennis, I’ve read in other threads about the pros and cons of completely sealing the belly pan. Given the amount of water literally pouring in around the beltline area as well as the amount of damage this has caused (to the steel, insulation and wood floor) I’m inclined to completely button it up, make it as completely watertight as possible. A friend also suggested a series of one way drains used in the aviation industry in the low spots. This I will definitely be explored.

Y’all can find my latest ranting here:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15132&page=4&pp=20

Thanks for your time.

Jim

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Old 04-25-2005, 08:46 PM   #12
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Sealing Ideas

Jim,

Most of my damage seems to be from the water that came off the rear trunk area. I'm going to try to wiggle some alum flashing (90 deg) in between the steel angle and the outer skin to deflect water away from the coach.

With a wire feed welder and auto darkening shield, anyone can be a welder!!
(Even a pizza maker!)
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Old 12-01-2005, 10:26 AM   #13
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where can I get a diagram like the one you posted for my 27' 69 overlander? It is excellent! The "owners manuel" that "secretarial services" vendors sold me was not even close to the year i needed or asked for, but they debited my CC anyways.
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Old 12-01-2005, 12:20 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PizzaChop
Rav - Are you taking notes? Easley, SC isn't that far from Danielsville, GA.
Hey, me first! You said!!!!!! Besides ladies don't look good with rear end sag!
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