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Old 06-23-2004, 02:29 PM   #15
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design philosophy issues - making it mine

Quote:
Originally Posted by psychpw
Is this a making it mine issue more than a repair issue... Guys are like male canines. Got to go on stuff to make it their own..... What skills, time, and money do you have...With lots of all three you can make one of those 100K AS.

Wellll....I guess it's turned into one of THOSE contests.

Let me load up on some cold adult beverage before I start!

NOW I know why Mary put the Lampeberger in there,
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Old 06-23-2004, 02:29 PM   #16
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Composite flooring

I did a little looking around and there are multiple suppliers of composite flooring materials. The best place to start is probably Hexcellcomposites.com. They are the outfit that will sell six panel minimums (remember that these are up to twelve feet long). They have the largest variety. They are willing to do custom edges. They are willing to do custom fabrication of sheets--which begs the question about inner arc of the end caps. Are they all the same? If that is so, it would be a CINCH to prefabricate the endcaps and then have variable body lengths. The only catch is in the crossmember supporting systems of which I have no knowledge (as I have yet to own an AS--sniff, sniff...small tear forming). When AS says that the shell is a monocoque construction they don't mention the floor or frame materials. If you guys can shoot me a picture or two of the frame minus floor, of the shell bottom and of the mating surfaces it would be of much help. I can't help but to think that producing or contracting to produce a line of composite panels would be possible at a reasonable cost. With AS trailers being a long-term investment it would seem to me that this technology would be a reasonable alternative to "sticks". Shoot me your feedback on this subject if you guys have real interest in this area. Especially if there are folks with some composites, engineering or business acumen. Take care!
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Old 06-23-2004, 07:04 PM   #17
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can't get this website: www.hexcellcomposites.com
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Old 06-23-2004, 07:14 PM   #18
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Exclamation Neither ~

Quote:
Originally Posted by uwe
can't get this website: www.hexcellcomposites.com
I couldn't get there either but...
I did a little detective work, and found this:
http://www.composites.com/main.htm
if you read around on this site..It offer some kewl insights.
ciao
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Old 06-23-2004, 07:38 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 53FlyingCloud
I couldn't get there either but...
I did a little detective work, and found this:
http://www.composites.com/main.htm
if you read around on this site..It offer some kewl insights.
ciao
53FC
Really cool site. Here's a new contest: Develop a 'usable' panel that costs less than $700 per 4x8 sheet, using the tools on that site.
(Note: their panels are 4' x 38', so it might work best for Airstreams less than 22' overall)
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Old 06-23-2004, 11:38 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j54mark
I've had to deal with a small area of rot on my coach. "Rot Doctor" pentrating epoxy took care of it. Would it work as well on delaminated plywood? Again, I don't know, but suspect not.

The corner double bed floorplan is not "rare" as in "desirable", but more like rare as in "unusual". The floorplan can be seen in my photos section. I've never seen another, but two forum members have mentioned they have one as well. If you can stand the corner bed, it provides incredible storage space.

Mark
Thanks Mark, I'll take alook. Never heard of that floor plan.
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Old 06-24-2004, 12:45 AM   #21
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Cool The more you look...

Quote:
Originally Posted by markdoane
Really cool site. Here's a new contest: Develop a 'usable' panel that costs less than $700 per 4x8 sheet, using the tools on that site.
(Note: their panels are 4' x 38', so it might work best for Airstreams less than 22' overall)
Companies such as this make it possible for products to perform at their best~!
Imagine if you will, an Airstream made with a "flooring" sandwiched with aluminum (of which, the thickness is your choice) on the top and bottom.
Additionally, it could be made with just two pieces of flooring material instead of 6 or 8 separate pieces bolted side-by-side.
The core of which, can be further designed to be either solid or honeycombed. Wet floor problems by-products are gone forever. No more holes in the floor due to rot, etc.
Why, you could even gain additional benefits such as, added insulation from the cold during the winter. (To name just one~!!)
Personally,
If I were to plan a shell off frame restorations, I'd seriously consider this option!
Dare we to think out side of the box???
ciao
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Old 06-24-2004, 04:02 AM   #22
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Here's the right one...

Sorry about the wrong link. Here's the one you'll really want:

http://www.hexcelcomposites.com/Mark...ls/default.htm

You can see that there are PLENTY of prefabricated laminate panels. No need to reinvent the wheel, especially with the selections for heavy traffic areas. 53Cloud, they already make aluminum-faced laminates for cargo holds in a variety of strengths and with differing impact resistances. Just a matter of dropping it in and getting on with it.
As for the design of a 4' x 8' carbon laminate board for less than $700 it is do-able. Here are some of the links that might be helpful: www.carb.com/carbon.html for high-end carbon fabrics and www.generalplastics.com for 6700 series foam boards. The cost is in the labor and layup of the board. You'll need at least four layers of carbon fabric (on each side) for multidirectional strength. Its gonna be work!

Now about that OSB flooring...
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Old 06-24-2004, 06:03 AM   #23
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osb vs plywood

The big questions in my mind for anyone reading this post are:

Would you (or did you) use OSB instead of plywood?
Why or why not?
Would you treat it with any thing additional (expoxy, thompsons, etc.)

Osb (oriented strand board) = wood chips glued together
Sadly many builders have convinced their customers and even themselves that this product is equal to plywood. What the builder or Airstream does is to use a cheaper product and pocket the savings while keeping your cost the same.
I will not argue with any one about osb v plywood. It is too much a personal thing like ford/chevy gas/diesel ginger/mary-anne etc.....

But, just do a personal test and put equal sizes of plywood and osb out side for what ever time period you chose. As water comes in contact with each you will be able to see for your self.
my .02.

Abe
Ps my builder was forced to use plywood on my addition against his will. He had specified "plywood" in his contract that we had agreed on, and imagine his suprise when I refused to let him use osb on my addition. Any insurance adjusters might also see this. Storm damage contractors always use osb on the structure and bill the insurance company for plywood.
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Old 06-24-2004, 07:46 AM   #24
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That link sure has lots of info. Makes me think my daddy was right when he wanted me to be an engineer, but I didn't like the smoke and noise.
I think I'll stick with the CPES and marine paint and sell the AS within the next 40 years.
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Old 06-24-2004, 07:47 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vajeep
The big questions in my mind for anyone reading this post are:
Would you (or did you) use OSB instead of plywood?
Why or why not?
Would you treat it with any thing additional (expoxy, thompsons, etc.)


...But, just do a personal test and put equal sizes of plywood and OSB out side for what ever time period you choose...
Ya know, I was going to stay out of this one: Too much of a Ford vs. Chevy thing. But I decided to treat this more of a poll, and cast my ballot.

I used OSB in replacing the aft, 4X8 section of rotted bathroom floor in my Overlander because I have unintentionally done the 'personal test' outlined above & studied the results. Although exterior grade plywood is assembled with waterproof glue, OSB wood chips are soaked in it thereby giving the final product more protection inside & out.

I debated treating all of the OSB with an additional product, but decided the edges were the only thing that would benefit (I have yet to see a rotted out hole in the middle of the floor). So, for water resistance, and as a slick surface to aid installation, I wrapped all the corners with duct tape.

Oh, and there are two Chevys & one GMC in my driveway

Tom
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Old 06-24-2004, 08:26 AM   #26
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Here is an interesting product, plymetal http://www.jfreeman.com/metal_sheeting.html#flat
What ever I use I will coat with epoxy. The edges for water the rest to cut down on mold / mildew getting into the wood. I really am leaning toward a deck style marine epoxy finish on the floor with area rugs as needed for the canines. This plymetal with the aluminum side down would allow filling the pan with foam insulation, no? Price isn't bad and close enough I can go get it.
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Old 06-24-2004, 08:52 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psychpw
....What ever I use I will coat with epoxy.
Given the amount of flex the floors see in normal trailer useage - does anyone have any thoughts (or experience) concerning the epoxy developing cracks and flaking off?
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Old 06-24-2004, 11:58 AM   #28
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Cracks Better do a test sheet. I'll let you know in a couple weeks.
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