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Old 11-15-2014, 10:38 PM   #15
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what a timely revival to this thread! I am in the midst of replacing a section of floor at the rear curb corner of my 77 safari (rear bath). the rot was beneath the shell and about 6" wide. it went from basically around the curved part of the corner. Started at rear bumper where the frame meets bumper and then around to the first outrigger. The wood was rotted right away between the outrigger and the shell with the shell having relaxed down against the outrigger. I tried jacking the shell up a bit to regain the spacing so I could slide in the new floor piece. No luck, the entire coach lifts when I jack. I guess it has been down so long it likes it there and the whole body has shifted to conform to it. Not sure what to do, I jacked the shell (and the accompanying coach) up about a 1/2" and left the jack in place overnight. Hoping that it will relax and perhaps I'll gain the space I need back. Any other ideas on how to get the shell raised up off the outrigger? The next outrigger is only about 15" away and the floor between it and the shell is still in good shape.
Lorry
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Old 11-16-2014, 05:42 AM   #16
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The C channel looks to be in good shape. I took out the inner skin yesterday. I need to weld in a new steel C channel under the rear. and new mounts for the black tank. A brace down the middle sounds like a good idea. I am not sure how backing the floor with wood would effect how the black tank fits. I am also going to take the new floor back to the wheel wells. I found more rot once I dropped the pan.
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Old 11-16-2014, 06:42 AM   #17
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Lorry

Do u have the pan dropped?

I am going to have the same issue. My outer skin is now touching the rear frame rails. I am planning on jacking up both sides of the shell. To try and get the new floor under it.


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Old 11-16-2014, 11:01 AM   #18
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I haven't dropped the pan yet, I was hoping to confine my repairs to this corner but I am having second thoughts. I have a good workspace available this winter and lots of time so I am considering removing the bathroom (rear), drop pans and make sure the whole back end is in good shape. The frame itself is in very good shape, at least the curb side is. I was hesitating because it seems that to pull the bathroom, I pretty much need to pull the whole interior. Everything inside an airstream seems to be connected. One factor in favour of pulling bath and pans is that my waste valves are leaking and it would appear to be almost impossible to service or replace them with the pans and rear skins in place.
Further to the shell on the outriggers, at the rear, where frame at bumper meets shell, the shell has not relaxed, there was enough wood hanging on there to hold it in place.
I guess I have a decision to make...
Lorry
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Old 11-16-2014, 11:17 AM   #19
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I don't have technical advice, but some personal experience on how you might be feeling.

Take breaks, and don't panic! I'm a newbie too, and we discovered rotten floor. It's very easy to stare at this and get panicked and worried you are in over your head and this is going to turn into a nightmare. Take a break, relax, don't stress. I over worried at first when uncovering the floor.

It's not easy as cake, but if you take your time, it's certainly doable and a lot easier than the mountain I made in my head.

Good luck in your endeavor.
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Old 11-16-2014, 11:29 AM   #20
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I have nearly the same vintage as BoldAdventure (2008 27FB). I got away with drying the wood and treating it but the whole operation took a few weeks and dropping the belly pan is recommended. My whole sad story start on post 245 in this thread: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f396...ml#post1262866


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Old 11-16-2014, 09:25 PM   #21
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The approach to replacing the rear section of subfloor has been described in different ways on the forums. Concerned about the structural role the floor plays in the monocoque design, I chose to use a single piece of ply, sliding it in from the rear. Getting enough space required trimming a slight bit of exterior skin on the street side, which didn't matter as I was attaching a flashing piece under the skin to water-proof the back anyway. It also required using 2x4's in the frame channels pushed downward, along with a 4x4 lever in the back hatch opening pushed upward, to increase the gap just enough to slide in the plywood sheet (with a little "persuasion" ). Described in the link I posted earlier.

Two pieces with a backing reinforcement will not work with the black tank in the rear. Some have made the pieced parts join on a beefed-up main frame channel, widened by welding angle to it (one version shown by mccrosti in the link above). Others have used a broad half-lapped joint to avoid the backing piece.

Looking forward to seeing how your approach goes; just remember to have fun...

Alan
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Old 11-16-2014, 10:33 PM   #22
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thanks all
Alan, I think I understand what you did, I expect it will become more obvious when I get more skins off and the bottom pan off. I will look at it all tomorrow and decide if I want to tackle this considering it means I have to pull the whole back interior out... but I am definitely leaning towards doing it properly so I don't end up having to do it again. I don't imagine doing it correctly would hurt the resale either, I'll tear a page from all the other AS folks and make sure I take lots of pictures as I go.
Lorry
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Old 11-17-2014, 07:30 PM   #23
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Pulled off the rear street side banana today and had a peek inside. There is some floor rot in there but not nearly as extensive as on curb side. mostly it appears at very back near where the frame rail would be. outrigger looks relatively good, some surface rust but nothing serious. There is a soft spot by the first outrigger, I have to take the bottom skin off tomorrow and have a closer look at the outriggers behind the wheel well. I don't expect much problem, the rot was much worse curb side and the outriggers were still solid. The rot appears to be mostly the direct result of the weak design of the rear bumper to coach connection. I'm not sure what I can do to fix that. I am going to remove the bottom pan under the tanks tomorrow and have a look at the floor from beneath, I don't expect to see much wood right against the body. If necessary I will remove the bathroom fixtures and interior walls so I can get at the c channel and get a new floor installed without pulling the shell.
Lorry
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Old 11-17-2014, 07:43 PM   #24
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Johnamgr - I left the jack in place lifting the shell (actually the whole coach) about 3/4" on Saturday and today I let the jack down. There was no noticeable difference in the gap between shell c channel and the outrigger, still not enough to get floor in. The shell had not lifted away from the outrigger. Not sure how I'm going to get just the shell lifted off the outrigger. I'm still a long ways from putting the floor back in, something will come up.
Lorry
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Old 11-18-2014, 05:45 AM   #25
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Lorry I have read about just having to shoehorn it in there. But like you I wish we could just slide it back in. I hope to try this weekend to get the subfloor back in.

As far as splicing. Anyone see cons to using a 3" wide by ⅛" thick. Plate steal.

The space I would need to spice would be where the black water tank gets installed under the floor. So space is tight.

Here is a pic after I welded new black tank supports on the frame and a new steal c channel between the rear frame rails.

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Old 11-18-2014, 05:46 AM   #26
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It's the black bar under the shell. Mine was completely gone.


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Old 11-18-2014, 01:16 PM   #27
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[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnamjr View Post
Lorry I have read about just having to shoehorn it in there. But like you I wish we could just slide it back in. I hope to try this weekend to get the subfloor back in.
Is there no play in the frame when pushing down or standing on the ends of the frame rails? (My method shown below, 200 lb son optional.) Also, if the shell rests that firmly on the frame, it makes me wonder if one or more of the outriggers forward have broken, with settling of the shell. Other signs of this might be bulkhead separation from inner skins, broken wheel wells, etc. Only direct inspection of the outrigger/rail joints can show this with certainty.

Quote:
As far as splicing. Anyone see cons to using a 3" wide by ⅛" thick. Plate steal.
Fasteners will be a problem. You don't want the black tank top rubbing against bolt ends. You also will need to fit and seal the tank's galvanized box edge around the splice, which is no big deal. If splicing, widening the frame rail and bolting to it as referred to previously seems a better route to me.
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Old 11-19-2014, 08:39 AM   #28
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TT - ahh, now I see. I'll try the 2.4 method, it may give me enough room at the rear frame/coach interface. Still not sure how I'll get the shell away from the first outrigger though, the outrigger itself and the next 2 (curbside) are all in good shape, a bit of surface rust but otherwise sound. And, the floor is fine over those next two outriggers.. the shell just seems to have relaxed around the curve as there is still the required space (1/2" in my case) for the floor where the shell meets the frame rails.
Floor seems a bit odd though, other posters on the forums indicate that this generation safaris had 5/8" or thicker flooring, I have measured mine in several places and it is nominal 1/2" ie closer to 15/32 or 7/16".
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