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Old 07-13-2009, 06:11 AM   #1
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Nail in water line: Need to cut out floor & patch

DW & I were pulling up carpet and linoleum yesterday and have run into a mess. The linoleum was installed by someone who put a 1/8 inch paneling down and laid the linoleum over the top of it. The paneling was nailed with
1 1/2 nails so they were about a 1/2 inch to long. When we pulled one of the last nails, a spring of water started to flow from the hole. We shut the water off fairly quickly so do not think that hurt anything. The hole is in the middle of the hall opposite the water valves and probably where the water line runs to the bath.
Good news is there does not seem to be any water damage from a leak. No rotten wood or wet spots. If it leaked with the nail in it, it must have been really slow because I have never seen drips coming from belly that could not be explained. I fixed them all. water has been on since I got it, it is parked in my driveway.
I'm going to have to cut a hole in floor, fix the water line and patch the floor.
I think an 8X8 inch cut out should give me enough room to fix the line. It is almost in the middle of the hall and between the frame.
My questions.
1. What is the best way to cut the floor? Any idea what is below other than this water line? Did AS attach electrical lines and water line to the underside of the plywood? It is 5/8 sheeting. Can I set my skill saw at 5/8 and cut a square?
2. I assume a 1990 would be using poly butyl pipe? Do I just cut at the nail hole and put a slip coupling on? Would it be better to find out where the line runs and try to fish PEX to replace the line.
3. To patch the hole, the threads say to screw and glue a frame underneath and coat and screw the patch with epoxy. That still the best way.
4. While I have everything out, should I put some kind of sealer (expoxy?) on the rest of the floor?

The picture with the screw driver is where the water is squirting up.

Front part of floor seems to be solid. We have the gaucho out and will be re-foamed and covered.
The only place I saw evidence of water damage was in the pic in front of the bed. I was not wet at all and seemed to be damage from an old leak.

We've got a busy week coming up. Any suggestions or input would be greatly appreciated. This is going to really look good and be nice when we get it back together. Having the carpet out for less than 24 hours has made a big difference in smell already!
Thanks,
Joe
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Old 07-13-2009, 09:06 AM   #2
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Joe,
It might be easier to cut a hole / access in the belly pan material and attack the repair from below. You can get an oversized piece of belly pan material and pop rivet it over the access hole you cut. Plus if the repair ever leaks again you can get to it easily from underneath.

Your idea of repairing the leak is sound and will work.

As for sealing the floor; if you are worried that some of the carpet smell has crept into the OSB then you might consider sealing it with something like a water based KILZ product.

Our '87 did not smell and the floor was pristine so we did not seal it and only used orange rosin paper as padding under the floating laminate floor.

The wise crack solution would be to put the nail back.
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Old 07-13-2009, 09:54 AM   #3
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I would repair the leak from below. Patching the belly pan is easy. I wouldn't disturb your pristine looking floor. Replacing a patch in the floor would probably create a squeek. I know!
Neil.
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Old 07-13-2009, 10:37 AM   #4
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Thanks Carl, I did try to put the nail back in. Did not work. Also tried chewing gum covered with duct tape. Still could hear the water gushing out! Back to cutting a hole somewhere.
I think I'm going for the inside cut because it is air conditioned and if I'm careful maybe I will not cut anything else. It is really hot in Florida.
If I did drop the belly, I think I would cut a piece out as big as the paneling that was nailed. There was close to 100 nails in a 16 sq ft area, so no telling what else they hit.
Where the nails hit the frame, they just bent them over.
The KILZ sounds good and I saw it on sale at Wall Mart yesterday.
Did you run your laminate under your gaucho & beds, or just the walk areas? I guess when I put the gaucho back in I'll just screw thru the laminate?
Joe
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Old 07-13-2009, 10:54 AM   #5
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Joe,
Since you are going the inside route, could you locate a hole in the subfloor in the cabinet to the right of your picture to get a reading on how thick the subfloor is?

Another suggestion would be to cut a pilot hole big enough for your hand to feel around under the subfloor and locate things you wouldn't want to cut.

We rented an electric undercut and an electric jam saw and undercut the cabinetry so I could let the laminate run "wild" under the cabinetry. Plus I didn't have to worry about install molding to hide the expansion gaps at the walls. It looks like the cabinetry was set right on top of the floor. Just look out for screws holding the cabinetry down, wiring, plumbing, and vents behind the cabinets.

If you put laminate down, just remember to drill oversized holes in the laminate for anything you are going to fasten to the subfloor, because the material needs the oversized hole for expansion and contraction. Go by whatever gap the manufacturer recommends.

In regards to the KILZ, just make sure you get the water base and not the oil base. Because if you get the oil base, you will be overcome by the fumes in such a small place.
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Old 07-13-2009, 01:28 PM   #6
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Carl, I did some investigating in the cabinet. It appears the water line that has the hole is on top of the fresh water tank, making things really interesting. Sure can not cut to deep. 2 lines look like they go accross the hall over to the bath. I took a picture of the pipes. Thanks for sticking with me on this. I want to think this thru before I cut and really mess something up!

Does anyone know what is under the shower and if I removed the carpet under the shower door do you think I might have access to the pipes. If I could find them, I thinkl I could get new PEX or pipe back accross the hall and not have to cut the floor. Might just be wishfull thinking.
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Old 07-13-2009, 01:40 PM   #7
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Joe,
I don't think you want to remove that panel under the shower stall. But if your bathroom is like mine you might be able to remove the heater vent and detach the duct hose and get to the pipe that way. Either way it is going to be close quarters. Hopefully the nail did not go through the polybutylene pipe AND the potable water tank.

Under the shower pan should just be the supports for the pan, the drain pipe, the "P" trap for the shower, and maybe a vent pipe.
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Old 07-13-2009, 01:48 PM   #8
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Joe,
How about using a wood chisel to carefully chisel away the floor. Once you are through you should be able to see how much room you have to play with before you get into the water tank.

Or just go shallower with your circular saw and start scoring in the cut with a utility knife until you are through.

How about a hole saw without the pilot bit in it?

I know I don't need to say this, but whatever you do...be careful.
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Old 07-15-2009, 04:24 AM   #9
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Got it cut. Fixed the leak

I made a 12X10 inch frame around the nail hole and used my router to cut thru the floor. This gave me a rough 6X3 cut out. I set the depth at 1/8 three times and then twice at 3/64. Once I got close to 5/8 deep, I took a screw driver and pried the edge up. Found the pipe with the leak right where it was supposed to be.
Once I cut the line, I put a slip compression fitting on it, blew water all over the trailer three times until I got it on properly, and now ready to patch the hole back up. Not a lot of room to work with. Tank is really close and have another water line next to this one.
May glue & screw a couple of strips at an angle across the corners and use the cut out with screws and epoxy to fill the gaps.
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Old 07-15-2009, 06:12 AM   #10
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Joe,
Good job. Man that looks like close quarters. I know you talked about replacing the entire length of pipe. I think that would be a better solution because I would hate to have that compression fitting let go once you get a permanent floor in place. If you replace the entire length with PEX your compression fittings would be where you could get to them (with relatively little trouble) if they decide to leak.
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Old 07-15-2009, 09:37 AM   #11
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I tried to fish a 10 ft piece of PEX thru to the other side. Would not make the turn. I talked to the dealer, JD Sanders in Alachua and they said that if the pipes are not held with a bracket, you can cut the pipes, duct tape a new one and pull it thru. I found one bracket and removed it, but there is a hidden one that is holding the pipes firm. Pulling it thru is out. The other option is to drop the pan, remove the fresh water tank and see if I can fish the PEX thru. I figure doing all that is opening the possibility of more leaks or other problems and still may not allow the pipe to be fished thru. They have been using these couplings for years and do not seem to have problems with failure. Even if it did, the water would not hit the new flooring and it would run out the belly pan. Should be able to see that before any damage is done.
Sure is a lot of work just because some idiot did not think to use the proper nails.
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Old 07-15-2009, 09:51 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirHeadsRus View Post
Sure is a lot of work just because some idiot did not think to use the proper nails.
Been there bought the t-shirt. We replaced our drywall kitchen ceiling and remodeled the upstairs bathroom due to a pin hole leak in the bathroom copper lines...a few weeks after completion of project water was coming through the kithen ceiling again. I ripped up the kitchen ceiling again to discover the carpenters who remodled the upstairs bathroom used something akin to 20 penny nail and drove it dead center through the same copper water supply line that was the culprit for the first leak.

I hope you get things sealed up, the floor down, and the coach on the road
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Old 07-17-2009, 06:56 PM   #13
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This thing is all patched up and I do not expect any more problems. I put down 2 coats of Kilz and will get back to the installation of the Pergo, which started this mess. I still have the leak in the home made Fantastic Fan cover that I have to deal with, but that is another thread.
Thanks for your help.
Joe
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