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Old 06-12-2006, 11:44 AM   #1
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1968 26' Overlander
1955 22' Flying Cloud
Carbondale , Colorado
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Missing Outriggers!!- Full Monte???

HELP! PLEASE!

My '68 Overlander International has rear end separation, amongst many other things! We've just begun drilling out rivets around the back quarter panels of the AS to try to start fixing the separation problem. On the street side by the wheel well we found some bondo on one of the outriggers, and basically a bit of a nightmare! After removing the bottom curved area right behind the wheel well, we found TWO skins that apparently run across the length on the street side,! (Maybe they beefed up the side due to the frame issues??? Anyone? Dented underneath skin panel? Not sure how much of an overlap of skin till be get more rivets drilled out.

Then we noticed not only two outriggers almost totally rusted through, but one completely missing. (Yes, we had to look!!!) Now that we did, I truly need some advice.

My hubby just said we shouldn't have bought this in the first place. Too much work on it to do! Said we should just sell it and get a different one. NO WAY, I say! (We only paid $700 for it initially with ALL working appliances and all original. ) Besides, no telling what another one would be like, upon deep inspection!

I know this can be fixed, and I'm willing to do it as I know it's totally worth it! I'm going to be needing his help, I'm sure. I have to have all the facts together so I can get this done right and get to using our AS. I love the trailer, layout, etc.! I also have two boys that are GREAT at welding! I've even started polishing it, so it'll be pretty to look at, while the repairs are being made!

What do I do to make up the missing and/or deteriorated outriggers? Do I need a pattern? Any suggestions??? I will be removing more of the belly pan to see what all is there. Even that has been a nightmare. How do you get the stubborn specially curved pieces off that tie into the bumper area, without bending them to pieces???

Some of the wood floor is gone at the very rear of the trailer where it was supposed to go into the C-chanel. (I have the rear bath, two twin beds model.) Not even sure if the C-chanel is there at this point! I'm sure it was a design flaw to begin with, in that some of the wood looks like it was factory cut out back there to accomodate some of the plumbing. I'm looking forward to broken c-chanels, you name it.

I really don't want to gut this completely and take everything out and do a shell off repair. We've started disassembling the bath area. We came to realize, the beds and closets must come out first. Any advice on removing the tub drain, etc.?

I have lots more questions, but more will appear with every rivet removed, I'm sure! I know there's other threads out there, but there's way too much to read, and not enough time to dig through all the great advice. I need to devote time to repairing this, so I can keep the hubby happy and actually get to use it!

Thanks!
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Old 06-12-2006, 01:06 PM   #2
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Step away from the outriggers, 'mam! You're about to open the proverbial can of worms, you know! Once ya get started, ya just can't stop. Maybe I can actually give you some REAL advice later tonight. Not enough time right now.

Jim
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Old 06-12-2006, 01:58 PM   #3
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1968 26' Overlander
1955 22' Flying Cloud
Carbondale , Colorado
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I've stepped back....and waiting for the REAL advice. Did you HAVE to say "CAN OF WORMS"? And you don't have to call me 'mam!
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Old 06-12-2006, 02:52 PM   #4
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You have two boys who are great at welding? Stand back and let them at it! It's payback time!

If they know how to weld, they should also be able to figure out the banana wraps and other stuff.

The outriggers are nothing exotic. Let the "Boys" have a contest to see who can make the prettiest one.
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Old 06-12-2006, 04:36 PM   #5
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1968 26' Overlander
1955 22' Flying Cloud
Carbondale , Colorado
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 60
Something to cheer me, yeah!

Quote:
Originally Posted by markdoane
You have two boys who are great at welding? Stand back and let them at it! It's payback time!

If they know how to weld, they should also be able to figure out the banana wraps and other stuff.

The outriggers are nothing exotic. Let the "Boys" have a contest to see who can make the prettiest one.
Thanks! I'm sure they will figure it out. You sure make it sound easy enough. Now just to get their undivided attention for more than a couple of minutes! (They're 18 and 21!) I guess they can just make a template from an existing one and go from there?

Is this is a normal find...the rusted out outriggers??? Come to think of it, this is the side of the trailer that was missing a curved glass window that Robandzoe provided me with. Don't know if that contributed to the floor and axle problem or not. Thanks again!
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Old 06-12-2006, 05:02 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fly2havefun
I guess they can just make a template from an existing one and go from there?

Is this is a normal find...the rusted out outriggers??? Come to think of it, this is the side of the trailer that was missing a curved glass window that Robandzoe provided me with. Don't know if that contributed to the floor and axle problem or not. Thanks again!
To answer your questions, in order:
Yes, they can make a template from an existing outrigger.
The rusted/missing outriggers are a common, but not normal, find, espescially if you have a massive water leak over them.
It very well could contribute to a floor warpage, and rotting problem, but it would not cause axle problems. The axles are probably just suffering the effects of old age.
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Old 06-12-2006, 05:25 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fly2havefun
I've stepped back....and waiting for the REAL advice. Did you HAVE to say "CAN OF WORMS"? And you don't have to call me 'mam!
Sorry, that was the best Jack Webb I could do at the moment. Sounds like others have you headed in the right direction.

Replacing the back floor segment really isn't all that hard. I know, it looks like it will be when you start turning wrenches and drilling rivets, but it sounds like you have some great help lined up. The boys will be more than willing, once they get started (if they are like the rest of us boys). If that doesn't work, you can always use Susan's favorite phrase: "I'm the mother, that's why".

Take a look at PizzaChop's pictures, he's done this on two campers. I did it too, but my thead is REALLY long (Doin' the Full Monte). Also, we both did ours on '70's era trailers. The Bottom/belly area is different on ours, but many of the same things apply.

Keep us up to date. We all love to see how the "other guy" did it and then steal each others ideas.

Jim

P.S.,you know you stold that trailer, don't you?
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Old 06-12-2006, 11:42 PM   #8
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1968 26' Overlander
1955 22' Flying Cloud
Carbondale , Colorado
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Thumbs up Thanks to all of you!

I can't thank you all enough for your support. Just knowing this forum is here is a life saver.

I will look up PizzaChop's link and also yours Jim & Susan. I will read it as I'm able. What is the best way to address all these issues? Perhaps some advice as to the order in which to do them. I'm thinking I should start with the outriggers???

What will we need to do in advance of having the boys welding me on new supports? Belly pan off, for sure, but will we have to do more from the inside? Of course, cut the bad part of the floor out in that area. How will we hold the shell up in this area safely to put everything back together properly? The wood in that area is definitely way lower than it's supposed to be! Warped and slid down underneath where the outrigger is missing.

Is this the time to change out the insulation? Is the old stuff better or the newer "Pink Panther" stuff?

(I will definitely have to read those threads, as my mind is racing with questions!) This is our first AS and other than what I've read here, I don't know the answers to so many things!

I'm still puzzled as to why there is what looks like two skins on that same side? Any ideas? I won't know if they're partial skins unless I completely remove a bunch more rivets. I'm not really wanting to add more work at the moment as I do have quite a list to do already!

Any info on removing the drain in the tub? Is that a no-brainer, or is there something we should look out for?

Yes Jim, it really is going to be a "can of worms!"
Once we start...oh, well, while we're at it... we might as well upgrade all the plumbing, electical, etc.! I know some things will be so much easier to do if we can get everything together and just do it while the back interior is gutted! And I'm sure be an improvement to a 40 yr. old AS. Will we need to remove the bottom interior panel??? (So many questions!)

I do want to camp in the "RoadRunner" again! I might have to change his name to "Can of Worms!" We did have a great time in it, the TWO times we've actually been able to use it!

SIDE NOTE: The ad on the VAC read... $700 or best offer. I e-mailed the lady, saying I would buy it for the $700, if she would e-mail me some pictures. Once she did, we told her it was sold. She posted the ad while I was looking at the classified. I was the first to respond, and by morning ...she said she had quite a few interested in it already. She said since I was the first to reply, she'd give me first dibs. I really feel that we were supposed to have it. I really didn't mean to steal it!

Before we left Arizona I already had close to what I paid for it, in new tires, wheel bearings packed, etc. to get home safely. Money well spent.

I'm not complaining about anything I have to do! Even I'VE developed issues now that I'm older!

I will keep you all informed of our progress, and try to take photos as we go.

Again, many thanks!
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Old 06-13-2006, 10:36 AM   #9
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I can try and answer a few of these. Remember, tho, that my experience is with a ’73 model.

If the floor rot ends with the last sheet of plywood, then it would be best to just replace that entire sheet. My camper uses 6 sheets of plywood, front to back. The bathroom sits pretty much on one sheet. As you’ve already figured out, you’re probably going to have to remove the entire bath and a few other things to get at the floor. In my camper, you can push the frame down and slide the plywood in between the shell and frame. The shell shouldn’t really need to be “held up” at this point in the game. It’s pretty rigid. Read up on treating the floor with epoxy to help avoid this happening again.

I don’t intend to put any insulation back in the belly pan. The pan is made to “breath”, so that means that dust and junk get in there. I’m convinced that you can’t keep all of the water out of there either. That combination makes a nasty, smelly mess. There is a lot of debate about what type of insulation to use. Search on it and you’ll see what I mean.

I don’t know about the “2 skins” thing. Post a couple of pictures and somebody will know (or at least have a theory we can debate!).

Bath drain. Do you mean the “J-trap”? Look underneath the trailer and see if there is a small patch of aluminum in the belly pan directly under the trap. That can be removed. That is an access door that allows you work under the bath. There may not be one on your model trailer, I just don’t know.

Yep, “while your at it”. This is a good time to do other work that you think you may want to do later. You probably won’t want to remove the entire bathroom again!

Take a look at my thread for some product names and so forth. It’s kind of a long thread, but you can search around in it for specifics.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f44/doin-full-monte-15132.html

Hope this helps a little.

Jim
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Old 06-14-2006, 12:38 PM   #10
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1968 26' Overlander
1955 22' Flying Cloud
Carbondale , Colorado
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Working will be delayed

We will be heading out of town till Monday. So, work has come to a halt temporarily. Can't wait to get some of these things addressed.

Not sure what the drain is called, other than it's the drain attached to the tub. My husband thought we could use something from the top to try to unscrew it. (Is that what we should do?) This being so old, I'm so leary to ever break or strip something!!! Replacements aren't always available!

The two skins go up to at least the middle of the side where the trim pieces are attached. Once the trim was removed, it reveals two skins underneath, (in the rivet holes). What a mystery to me.

No hole underneath the tub on our '68. Just the holding tank!! (Wouldn't you know!) Looking forward to returning from our trip to get back to working on this!

Will try to post some pics when we return to show some of the problems we've encountered! Have a great weekend, all!
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