Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-08-2011, 07:49 PM   #1
Rivet Master
 
Steve Bryant's Avatar

 
1991 34' Limited
Wichita , Kansas
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 817
Images: 7
Leaks and Floor Rot in '91 34' Limited

I'm starting a new thread to document my leaks and floor rot in my 1991 Limited and the approach that I'll be taking to diagnose and repair this issue. This thread will be very similar to the thread "Lots of Rotten Floor" thread by HiHoAgRV http://www.airforums.com/forums/f36/...oor-54952.html and probably numerous other threads. However I'm doing the thread in an effort to add to the body of knowledge and to enlist the helpful suggestions of others.

I'll be adding pictures as I go. One difficulty that I face is the fact that winter is setting in here in Wichita, KS. However, probably with some luck, I can continue working a good number of days until I can at least tow my trailer back to the storage lot in good enough sealed up condition to be water tight until the spring when I can continue work.
Steve Bryant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2011, 10:24 PM   #2
Rivet Master
 
Steve Bryant's Avatar

 
1991 34' Limited
Wichita , Kansas
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 817
Images: 7
OK, now for some of the first pictures. BTW, I believe in taking and using photographs as a tool that allows one to not only document the situation, but I can study and think about how I want to approch the repair after dark, on a bad weather day, etc. Also, I have taken a number of detail photographs to show me how things came apart and to be helpful when putting things back together again.

Also, one thing that I feel bad about is that I have owned this trailer for six years and have used it very little and have not adequately kept tabs on things like roof caulking, etc. But sometimes, events overtake us and we just need to make the best of it and move forward.

OK, here's the first photo, the evidence of the floor rot which allowed mice easy access to the trailer (Oh Happy Day ... NOT).
Steve Bryant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2011, 09:24 AM   #3
Site Team
 
Aage's Avatar
 
1974 31' Sovereign
Ottawa , ON
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 11,219
Images: 25
Hello and welcome to Airforums.com, Steve! You can look forward to finding answers here to just about any question you can think of.

We look forward to seeing your saga of the rotting floor. No, you're not the first, but there's always a new twist ready to be revealed for any procedure, I feel.

If you need a few pointers on how to post photos, have a look at this post, one of Janet's terrific newbie helpers.

All the best, and remember: there is nothing such as too many photos; we love them!
Aage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2011, 05:02 PM   #4
Rivet Master
 
Steve Bryant's Avatar

 
1991 34' Limited
Wichita , Kansas
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 817
Images: 7
It seems that I can't edit post 2 right now, so I'm trying a different method to insert photos.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bryant View Post

OK, here's the first photo, the evidence of the floor rot which allowed mice easy access to the trailer (Oh Happy Day ... NOT).


The next photos show a crease in the right rear and left rear corners which indicate some likely rear frame separation to me (note: cracks in caulking). I've verified that the crease on the curb/right side was visable in a picture six years ago when I bought the trailer, but I didn't know to look for further problems.

Steve Bryant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2011, 05:49 PM   #5
Rivet Master
 
Steve Bryant's Avatar

 
1991 34' Limited
Wichita , Kansas
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 817
Images: 7
Here's what the floor looks like beneath the carpet (furniture removed).



I'll soon add a full shot of the rear bedroom subfloor and the bathroom subfloor, but I haven't taken these photos yet. I suspect that my basic problem is rear separation of the frame and semi-monoque body structure. However, I've also got some leaks in the rear, most notably the Kool-O-Matic fan has self-destructed and where the rubber isolators have torn away, they've punched holes in an external doubler/chimney structure.



I've bought a Fantastic Fan and talked to Rodney in Customer Service there (he is on a team that often installs these fans at Airstream Rallies and gave me suggestions for the conversion from the Kool-O-Matic.



Then, I've got caulking/sealing issues on top that must be addressed ... take a look.


Steve Bryant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2011, 05:58 PM   #6
Rivet Master
 
Steve Bryant's Avatar

 
1991 34' Limited
Wichita , Kansas
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 817
Images: 7
Up front on top I have some minor leak issues to address (really compared to the back, I'm not being facetious) like this:



It's amazing how little this fella has leaked. I've ordered and have on hand this replacement vent lid Airstream Solardome Vent Kit SKU3419Kit - $46.07 : Out-of-Doors Mart!, More Airstream Parts on-line than anyone!. Additionally, I have on hand new gaskets and screens for the grey and black water vents. Next Monday and Tuesday, the weather is supposed to be back into the mid-forties and I have a friend coming to help me do some of the work on the roof.
Steve Bryant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2011, 06:24 PM   #7
Rivet Master
 
Steve Bryant's Avatar

 
1991 34' Limited
Wichita , Kansas
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 817
Images: 7
Once I get the obvious leak sources fixed on top, I'll remove the interior lower side panels in the back, peel off the rear banana fairings and remove the sub-floor from the rear bedroom and bathroom and get everything cleaned up so that I can inspect for the extent of the damage. Then I plan to repair the floor using AB Exterior plywood. I plan to do this in four sections using HiHoAgRV's basic approach. I plan to coat the plywood with marine epoxie top/bottom/edges. I'll use new hardware to secure the bottom shell extrusion (C channel) to the frame rails and outriggers and to screw the floor to the frame and outriggers.

I've read a number of posts on the causes of rear and front separation and I do believe that the frame structure is an inadequate design for these trailers as they got longer and heavier over the years. I plan to set up my equalizer hitch using a minimum amout of tension on the equalizer bars. I'll also be pulling the front carpet, the parkay flooring in the galley, etc. to inspect for further damage (rot/frame separation, etc.) Then, I'm going to use a light-weight laminate flooring system that floats on the sub-floor.

This whole thing is very disheartening. I'm working through the various stages of grief / / / as others have before me and now I'm in the "reconstruction and working through" stage according to this website 7 STAGES OF GRIEF.
Steve Bryant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2011, 06:32 PM   #8
Rivet Master
 
1981 31' Excella II
New Market , Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,145
Your photos have some viruses attached. I just tried to open one and got one of those fake virus check programs. The leak is caused by that plate at the back of the bumper that leaks and does a great job of funneling water under the sub floor. My 81 had the same issues. The plate won't go back. I had to replace the last 4 ft of floor.

Perry
perryg114 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2011, 09:01 PM   #9
Rivet Master
 
Steve Bryant's Avatar

 
1991 34' Limited
Wichita , Kansas
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 817
Images: 7
Perry,
I don't know about the virus issue. I run Norton 360 on anything that passes through my computer and my definitions are automatically kept up to date. I'm glad that you didn't fall for the fake virus check program.

Thanks for your input. After you replaced your subfloring, what did you do to address the leak on top of the bumper sheet metal?
Steve Bryant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2011, 07:22 AM   #10
Rivet Master
 
1981 31' Excella II
New Market , Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,145
When I put the floor back in I removed the plate. I am going to make a rear banana skin back there so the water can shed off the back. So mine will have about a 1in gap back there so water can shed off the rear of the trailer and go straight to the ground. I have not completed putting the rear skins back on yet. I will make a new box for the bumper compartment that is separate from the rest of the trailer. The old design also allows any water that leaks around the bumper to end up under the belly skins and we don't need anymore water problems down there. I have coated the rear sections with Vulkem to protect them from water. The belly band will seal the top of that area where the C-Channel meets walls. The only area where water can pool now is right over the frame rails. I think I will make some flashing so water will shed off that area and not pool there. This may end up being part of the new banana wrap back there. That plate is too much of a risk to leave. Once the belly band is back on, you can't see what the state of the seal is back there. I have seen others try to make a dam to keep water off that area but my solution was to get rid of it.

I had a big leak in the back after I replaced the floor. It was either the bathroom vents (air and sewer) or the rear awning window area. That leak is gone now. I am working on the one to the right of the door below a big fixed window. I think the window to frame interface is bad on that one. The door frame and the frame of that big fixed window were leaking as well. I would seal the window frames on all windows ASAP. The gasket on the pop out windows is not as critical because there is a gutter that will catch small leaks. These are leaks that you can see and are less of a priority. The air vents on top are potential leaks as well.

The rear tail light buckets can leak as well. You can seal these from the inside when you remove the tail lights. I recomend you don't cover the floor in areas where you don't need it. All 4 corners are a place to see leaks. There is a gap in the C-channel where the corners meet the straight wall and any water that gets in there will come out at those locations. This is why the floors always rot in the corners. Awning attach points are leakers as well. Mine were not sealed and they use Olympic rivets. Awning caps can leak and if the leak is not internal it will contribute to rotting your awning.

Perry
perryg114 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 07:36 AM   #11
Rivet Master
 
Steve Bryant's Avatar

 
1991 34' Limited
Wichita , Kansas
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 817
Images: 7
Perry,
Thanks so much for your detailed response. It's more than I can digest on my first reading and I'll have to ponder this for a while. Do you have any pictures or a thread that documents the repairs that you have made in this area? I really appreciate your input, sir!

Steve
Steve Bryant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 07:48 AM   #12
Rivet Master
 
1981 31' Excella II
New Market , Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,145
Here is a link to some full resolution unedited photos. I have not had time to properly edit them yet. They are in chronological order.

Index of /AS-Temp/81-ExcellaII-31ft/Floor-Repairs

Perry
perryg114 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2011, 08:09 AM   #13
Rivet Master
 
Steve Bryant's Avatar

 
1991 34' Limited
Wichita , Kansas
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 817
Images: 7
Perry,
Thanks for the link. I've studied your pictures carefully and now I know what to look for on that rear bumper sill plate. I'll be checking that out when I get to that point.

Yesterday, my friend Ralph and I removed the Kool-O-Matic Vent assembly (including the external doubler and installed the Fantastic Vent (Model 6000). Weather permitting, we're going back up top to work on re-caulking and replacing the forward vent cap, the sewer gaskets and screens, etc. I'll be sending pictures.

Steve
Steve Bryant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2011, 07:06 PM   #14
Rivet Master
 
HiHoAgRV's Avatar

 
1991 34' Excella
1963 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Central , Mississippi
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,919
Images: 29
Blog Entries: 49
It's lookin like you are on track Steve. I didn't see any need to start re-engineering my '91's original design as I went through the process. I simply repaired the damage and sealed the leak areas. If anything was lacking in the original build it was attention to details when they were sealing, well, and the fact that I have no idea who managed to convince them that OSB was a good choice for flooring

Keep us 'posted', you will get LOTS of feedback!
__________________
Hi Ho Silver RV! Vernon, Sarah, Mac the Border Collie(RIP) -
A honkin' long 34' named AlumaTherapy https://www.airforums.com/forums/f20...num-54749.html
and a 26' '63 Overlander, Dolly https://www.airforums.com/forums/f10...ome-71609.html
HiHoAgRV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2011, 11:02 PM   #15
Rivet Master
 
Steve Bryant's Avatar

 
1991 34' Limited
Wichita , Kansas
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 817
Images: 7
Thanks HiHo for your encouraging remarks and your nicely documented thread on this same issue!

It drizzled all day (Tuesday) so I didn't get to work on the roof any more. I'm going to try again Thursday. Tomorrow (Wednesday), we're supposed to have even more rain, so I'll probably work on peeling the rear bedroom interior skins so that I can observe the source of the water flow, tributaries, confluences ... that sort of thing.

Steve
Steve Bryant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2011, 06:48 AM   #16
Rivet Master
 
HiHoAgRV's Avatar

 
1991 34' Excella
1963 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Central , Mississippi
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,919
Images: 29
Blog Entries: 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bryant View Post
...I can observe the source of the water flow, tributaries, confluences ... that sort of thing.

Steve
That was a very enlightning exercise for me also. I found a single pop rivet that held on a front segment bracket was POURING water through, everything else was a drop or so.

I still have one leak that appears during towing or facing into the wind. The street side sofa arm gets wet as water seeps from a joint of the inner skins. I just have not been able to track that one down.
__________________
Hi Ho Silver RV! Vernon, Sarah, Mac the Border Collie(RIP) -
A honkin' long 34' named AlumaTherapy https://www.airforums.com/forums/f20...num-54749.html
and a 26' '63 Overlander, Dolly https://www.airforums.com/forums/f10...ome-71609.html
HiHoAgRV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-15-2011, 09:46 PM   #17
Rivet Master
 
Steve Bryant's Avatar

 
1991 34' Limited
Wichita , Kansas
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 817
Images: 7
Here are some photos of the actual sub-floor and the water damage:

Overall Photo of Rear Bedroom



Detail of Rear Section - I took this shot to detail the color coding of the wires for the re-splicing later. I've taken a bunch of shots of details like this to ease the reassembly later.



Detail of left/street side wall



Detail of Bathroom sub-floor - Does anyone have suggestions on removal of the rear partition and/or tub/shower floor. Also, where the water supply line penetrates the floor, behind the toilet; how's the best way to re-splice this line as I'll probably end up cutting it or replacing the vertical and the fittings.

Steve Bryant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2011, 04:57 PM   #18
Rivet Master
 
Steve Bryant's Avatar

 
1991 34' Limited
Wichita , Kansas
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 817
Images: 7
In the past few days, I've made some more progress on top of my trailer and in the bathroom area.

First the roof area. Ralph and I decided to remove the external doubler between the Kool-O-Matic's hood and the Airstream's top skin because there were numerous places for leaks and there was good evidence from below that the original skin cutout for a fourteen inch square cutout with radiused corners was still in tact. This turned out to be the right decision because there was dirt that had been carried in by water migration between the skin and doubler and leak paths that could not have been sealed properly. Here's the completed Fantastic Vent (Model 6000) installation. The kind folks sent me an off-white radiused interior "garnish" at no cost. I haven't installed this yet, as I will clean the interior skin after all repairs are complete and then install the AS garnish (note to self: return the standard garnish to kind folks at Fantastic Vent).



I've also installed the replacement dome that I ordered from the Out of Doors Mart on the front vent. I cleaned and re-caulked that flange too. The fan blades on both the bathroom vent and the forward vent were brittle and the slightest pressure on each of them caused them to break. I don't have any pictures of the forward lid because it got dark as I was finishing!
Steve Bryant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2011, 05:09 PM   #19
Rivet Master
 
Steve Bryant's Avatar

 
1991 34' Limited
Wichita , Kansas
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 817
Images: 7
I've also removed the aft wall of the bathroom, the vanity cabinet and a few other things to ease the access for properly replacing the floor in the bathroom.



This was a little time consuming, but actually easy to do. If you want to see more detail and description of the steps, take a few minutes and peruse my Webshots album beginning here:

http://s172.photobucket.com/albums/w...eam%20Limited/

Then, view the subsequent photos using the "Next" icon. A brief description is found below each photo. Also, if you click on the photo, you can go to a full size photograph and even magnify the details in most instances. At some future point, I envision doing some future threads that relate to the task of removing the bathroom wall, etc. but for now, I'm focusing on leaks and rot repair.
Steve Bryant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2011, 12:26 AM   #20
Rivet Master
 
ROBERTSUNRUS's Avatar

 
2005 25' Safari
Salem , Oregon
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,367
Images: 18
Blog Entries: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by perryg114 View Post
Your photos have some viruses attached. I just tried to open one and got one of those fake virus check programs. The leak is caused by that plate at the back of the bumper that leaks and does a great job of funneling water under the sub floor. My 81 had the same issues. The plate won't go back. I had to replace the last 4 ft of floor.

Perry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bryant View Post
Perry,
I don't know about the virus issue. I run Norton 360 on anything that passes through my computer and my definitions are automatically kept up to date. I'm glad that you didn't fall for the fake virus check program.

Thanks for your input. After you replaced your subfloring, what did you do to address the leak on top of the bumper sheet metal?
Hi, I just clicked on one of your pictures and got this virus thing too; This needs to be fixed! I had to turn my computer off manually to stop it.
__________________
Bob 2005 Safari 25-B
"Le Petit Chateau Argent" Small Silver Castle
2000 Navigator / 2014 F-150 Eco-Boost / Equal-i-zer / P-3
YAMAHA 2400 / AIR #12144
ROBERTSUNRUS is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.