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Old 11-13-2006, 07:29 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by 2airishuman
..

no toe-in or caster on these babies.

jacking on the torsen can increase this bow or create more on one side than the other...

so jacking on the axles will screw up the alignment

cheers
2air'
The folowing are alignments specs for Henschen axles as used by Airstream.

Toe in 1/16" plus or minus 1/16" tolerance

Camber 3/4 degree positive plus or minus 3/4 degree.

Each side of each axle should match the other side.

As an example, a toe in on one side of o" and 1/8" on the other side, is a no no.

The same is true of the camber, both side should match.

Andy
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Old 11-13-2006, 07:43 PM   #44
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thanks andy

i knew you'd have the spec on the tip of your fingers!

1/16th +/- 1/16th...? so not much toe in huh?

now that you're back....
what's your view of using a wedgie thing to change a flat tire?

is it ok for us to roll a fully inflated tire/wheel up on a ramp to change a flat?

cheers
2air'
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Old 11-13-2006, 08:08 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman
thanks andy

i knew you'd have the spec on the tip of your fingers!

1/16th +/- 1/16th...? so not much toe in huh?

now that you're back....
what's your view of using a wedgie thing to change a flat tire?

is it ok for us to roll a fully inflated tire/wheel up on a ramp to change a flat?

cheers
2air'

Smartest way in the world to change a flat is to pull the good tire up on a ramp or a couple of 2 x 6's, for a tandem that is.

No jack to worry about, no gusts of wind to worry about, absolutely no safety hazard.

Plus, if you wish, take a day or two to change the tire. No problem. The axle rods will not be damaged.

Andy
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Old 11-13-2006, 09:13 PM   #46
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2air - I apologize that I attributed the wedge thing to Andy and not you. I still think it looks like the best way to go - will look forward however to hearing what Andy says.

My dear departed father in law (who is responsible for my owning an A/S) used 2 pieces of 2x6 and a piece of 3/4" plywood to raise a tire to lift the other off the ground on a dual axle trailer. Our manual shows the same procedure and actually reminded me of him.

Don't see how this can be wrong. I'm a newbie but it doesn't seem to take that much lift on the front tire to lift the rear off the ground..?
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Old 11-13-2006, 09:23 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In
Smartest way in the world to change a flat is to pull the good tire up on a ramp or a couple of 2 x 6's, for a tandem that is.

No jack to worry about, no gusts of wind to worry about, absolutely no safety hazard.

Plus, if you wish, take a day or two to change the tire. No problem. The axle rods will not be damaged.

Andy
thanks andy that's what i will keep doing...

gotta love the torsion axles!

cheers
2air'

no problemo ganglin...
i didn't invent it...but visa let me buy one...
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Old 11-13-2006, 10:04 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In
The JACK labels on the frame are for stabilizing jacks ONLY.

You must never use that spot to lift the trailer. If you do, serious damage can occur.

Lifting any Airstream or Argosy trailer, "ever built" or will be built, is "ALWAYS"
done using the rear of the axle mounting plates for a single axle, between the tires for a tandem axle, and between the rear and center tire for a tri-axle.

Additionally, NEVER, EVER lift, a trailer by placing a jack under a torsion axle.

It is possible by doing so, to cause a change in the alignment.

Andy
Ok now the 2 rivet guy (me) is scared.

I had the local tire ship check the tires and we did jack the trailer up by the the axle to balance the tires. Did I change the alignment? How do I know?

Andy feel free to chime in.
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Old 11-13-2006, 10:54 PM   #49
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bent torsion

I'll try to take a picture tommorrow.I have studied this thing for a long,long time.There are no marks of any kind on the square tubes,they appear to have the same bend in the center that my other 3 trailers have,and everything is tight.It's as if some one had slid her sideways into a curb and bent the spindles downward at the outboard end.I plan to pull the wheels and drums off in the next couple days and further investigate.This is ofcourse precursor to dropping the axles out and replacing them.Not a big deal---took me 6 hours,single handed to change the axles on my Overlander a few years ago.Altho' I've had a third back surgery since then and am not moving quite as fast[not to mention turning 60 the other day].Plus am planning to use Dexters this time and not sure what extra work may be involved there.I really like the Dexters,we've had them on a couple horse trailers that we carried some pretty valuable horse flesh in and never had any problems.Altho' I must keep in mind,the horses came with their own built in suspension as well,and they never complained.But maybe that was a result of the threat of the glue factory hanging over their head.--------The other possibility I've considered is maybe that just always been that way-----you know,from the factory,defective. But maybe I'm just too picky.30 years of experimental aircraft building tends to make a guy that way. Will keep ya' posted,Butch
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Old 11-13-2006, 11:35 PM   #50
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I did in fact say myself that Andy had in fact talked about pulling the trailer
up on a ramp for tire changes ,or as he has said ,blocks .Many have seen the airstream film (at ralleys mostly) that clearly shows removing the flat and then proceeding on your way ,this is an old film 70s I think it is ,but does indeed show that then and today ,a method to be able to go ahead on your way to the nearest service station by airstream itself. Now I myself don't think anyone here is planning to drive 200 miles on three tires..... as was said and clearly would be going to go the shortest route to get the tire fixed.
that said ,im sure if you had the spare with you ,indeed it would be installed
right there,but say the studs were sheared off (familiar problem ) you could go ahead and proceed to the rest stop or town or tire shop ,which ever it is
getting off the side of the road and go to where you can be helped.so that
makes this dual torsion axles feature viable or even tandem leaf springs also
could be done in this way ,again fairly short term .so its doable and Id not
hesitate to proceed in this situation .certainly common sense comes into it
and most would proceed with caution and safe driving practices.Id agree to
proper jacking on these torsion axles in the correct position ,and we need to
get the right scoop for you torsion guys and gals.

Scott
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Old 11-14-2006, 11:04 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDL
Ok now the 2 rivet guy (me) is scared.

I had the local tire ship check the tires and we did jack the trailer up by the the axle to balance the tires. Did I change the alignment? How do I know?

Andy feel free to chime in.
Take the trailer to an alignment shop and have them check the alignment against the following specs.

Toe in 1/16" plus or minus 1/16"
Camber 3/4 degree plus plus or minus 3/4 degrees

All tires should be the same. As an example if one tire has a tow in of 1/16" then the others must have the same.

Same is true for the Camber. All tires should be the same.

Compare the results with the above specs. If they are out, then post them and I will try to help you from there.

Andy
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Old 11-15-2006, 11:59 AM   #52
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alignment

Andy,so when we go to the alignment shop,[that is if we can find one that will do trailers,and so far I've had no luck there]and they find missalignment,can it be adjusted?In looking at the axles,I can see no means of changing or moving the spindle position. After examining mine close up ,I am now more convinced than ever that they were improperly jigged at manufacturing.In other words---the spindles appear to have been welded into the torsions at an improper angle. There is no apparent damage and everything is tightly bolted in place as it should be.And yet my right side tires set only on the outboard 2" portion of the tire. Thanks,Butch
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Old 11-15-2006, 12:18 PM   #53
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Andy,so when we go to the alignment shop,[that is if we can find one that will do trailers,and so far I've had no luck there]and they find missalignment,can it be adjusted?In looking at the axles,I can see no means of changing or moving the spindle position. After examining mine close up ,I am now more convinced than ever that they were improperly jigged at manufacturing.In other words---the spindles appear to have been welded into the torsions at an improper angle. There is no apparent damage and everything is tightly bolted in place as it should be.And yet my right side tires set only on the outboard 2" portion of the tire. Thanks,Butch
According to Henschen, it is near impossible to have the spindle improperly welded into position, simply because of the tight fit.

I would suggest you check to see if it's a Henschen axle, and if so what is the serial numbers of those axles.

I would also suggest that if it is a Henschen axle, that you check very carefully to see if someone did indeed change the spindle. Check for signs of a cutting torch and/or sloppy welding.

Torsion axles are aligned by bending the square shaft. Even "if" the spindles were improperly positioned, the automated alignment equipment that Henschen has, would have bent the square sheft to the correct alignment specs.

People can do strange things.

Andy
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Old 11-15-2006, 03:36 PM   #54
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A Better Way

Boy, did I ever start something with the ramp suggestion.

Andy, Thank you very much for supporting the ramp idea.

Charles Surman
WBCCI 1322
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Old 11-15-2006, 04:31 PM   #55
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Back in '43

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbwwjd
Andy, so when we go to the alignment shop, [that is if we can find one that will do trailers,and so far I've had no luck there] and they find missalignment,can it be adjusted? ...
My Father-In-Law's passion is restoring old Ford sedans. His '43 sedan had a problem with the alignment which, nowadays, is adjusted by loosening a locknut & dialing in the correct adjustment. Old cars were adjusted by bending things with brute force. But since that was the way it was done back then, the alignment shops of the time had all the necessary equipment to do it.

About three years ago, he located a shop in Albertville, AL who still had all the original equipment from that era, and from my FIL's description, the shop's owner was old enough to have been an original operator.

From Bob's description, the gear consisted of substantial hooks in the shop's concrete floor, and come-alongs with a finer action than typical. It sounded like the equipment itself was not that elaborate, but operator skill was important.

The Man knew what he was doing, and my FIL drove his now-aligned antique home confident that he would not chew up tires... during the whole five miles per year he accumulates on the car.

Tom
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Old 11-16-2006, 09:27 AM   #56
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Leaf Springs

So... will the ramp trick work for changing a tire on an old trailer like mine that doesn't have torsion axles, but leaf springs?
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