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Old 11-08-2006, 02:02 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Bigdaddy_2
The owners manual for my 2002 30' Classic says to find the "jack decal" towards the rear of trailer behind the tires and place the jack to change a tire on the riveted plate. It says nothing about jacking between the tires.

Does Andy know something I am missing?
The old Sears advertising comes to front stage.

Remember the Good, Better and Best?

Airstream suggested the good, but a prior post demonstrates all too well what usually happens. Facts more than tell you that lifting at the jack labels, is "wrong."

Do the best you can. It's cost is absolutely zero, and the safety is best.

Anything short of that is a compromise.

Some old sayings with Airstream, however wrong, just won't go away.

Andy
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Old 11-08-2006, 03:34 PM   #16
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OK. So if I interpret correctly, at least in terms of jack contact point, I will locate and use the spot between the tires (haven't looked yet). If nobody else comes back with alternative conflicting and compelling assurances, I will assume the correctness of this advice. Onward. Thanks

P.S.: My original concern, How do I fix the body/frame damage got side tracked. Anyone have info how to repair? Thanks
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Old 11-08-2006, 03:57 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by edfos2
OK. So if I interpret correctly, at least in terms of jack contact point, I will locate and use the spot between the tires (haven't looked yet). If nobody else comes back with alternative conflicting and compelling assurances, I will assume the correctness of this advice. Onward. Thanks

P.S.: My original concern, How do I fix the body/frame damage got side tracked. Anyone have info how to repair? Thanks

You can easily replace the damaged underbelly wrap.

It is available in prefinished material.

The width is fixed. You will need to measure the length.

It is sold by the square foot.

Repairing what you have will cost far more than replacement.

You would have to straighten stretched metal, which is near impossible. Then you would have to bondo the area, and then prime and paint it with a color that won't match very well.

From your photo's, I don't see any frame damage.

Andy
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Old 11-08-2006, 04:01 PM   #18
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edfos2, Sorry to hear about your circumstance.

This thread is interesting but it is also frustrating because of the confusion of the jack points.

On my trailer (2004), I have the "Jack" stickers and metal plates to, but if they were a reference point for the placement of the factory installed stabilizer jacks, then that means
AS really missed the mark on mine, because they are located nowhere near those stickers.

Unless they are meant for the placement of the pyramid stabilizers. I didn't think that AS shipped out any unit without stabilizers, standard equipment? You would think that with the hundreds or thousands of dollars in repairs awaiting because of a mis-labeled, mis-understood 2 cent sticker!!!

The same thing blows me away when trying to unravel the mysterious drawing in the owners manual for the water heater by-pass. The drawing shows one thing and the copy says another. When I called AS about this, the answer was to turn the three valves the oposite direction from the normal operating mode.

I still don't know if they got around to replacing that page.

Jonathan
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Old 11-08-2006, 04:13 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edfos2
OK. So if I interpret correctly, at least in terms of jack contact point, I will locate and use the spot between the tires (haven't looked yet). If nobody else comes back with alternative conflicting and compelling assurances, I will assume the correctness of this advice. Onward. Thanks

P.S.: My original concern, How do I fix the body/frame damage got side tracked. Anyone have info how to repair? Thanks
The curved sheet of Aluminum that got damaged should be removed for damage assessment.
You can remove it by first removing the molding that covers the seam from the curved piece to the side skin. You will have to remove the rivets that get exposed under the lower molding. Then remove the rivets that hold the belly wrap ( curved piece) to the actual belly cover.
See if any structural damage happened, repair it, and then either straighten and re-install, or replace the damaged metal. It is nothing more than belly pan metal, which comes in a straight section. It wraps arond the outrigger ends, and secures under the outer skin and by the frame rail.
This is a relatively easy repair, so long that no frame parts got bent.
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Old 11-08-2006, 07:49 PM   #20
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UWE,
Karma to you for finally answering this guys question on post #19. I gave him some ideas along the same lines on another thread and suggested he bring it here for some answers. I was quite sure that he would get a number of responses, I didn't think it would head in the direction it did.
Dave
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Old 11-08-2006, 08:17 PM   #21
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Sounds like I've opened a can of worms regards the jacking issue. Have to admit though that I'd rather be reading about the dilemma rather then living it. Along with the hassle having to take the time to repair it or have it repaired, I'm substantially dissapointed with AS because of the missinformation. I can't accept that this sort of thing could slip through the cracks and stay in the dark for so long. Inexplicible. Way too many people seem to have it wrong and should not. In fact, I think AS ought to accept liability and pay for my repairs. Sure, that's going to happen. Thanks so far for all your ideas/suggestions
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Old 11-10-2006, 09:07 AM   #22
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Forgot another concern about the incorrect jack spot. Since I got the trailer off the ground for a few minutes, it occurrs to me that the weight was supported by a series of inappropriate trailer structures and the weight must have been transferred from "wrong" section to other "wrong" sections. That being the case, is it likely I've got some hidden, missalignment or potential structural weakness issues? Thanks
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Old 11-10-2006, 11:20 AM   #23
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This makes me crazy!!!

I've been one of those who was evidently foolish enough to follow the jacking directions in my official 2004 Internation Trailer Owner's Manual, page D7:

"To CHANGE A TIRE with a jack see the label affixed to the underbelly to the rear of the wheels. This label, says JACK with an arrow and points to a plate riveted to the mainframe rail where the jack head must be placed.

I see no apparent damage on my 16 foot single-axleToasty, but it's always scared the poop out of me to place a jack in what looks like nothing more than any other stretch of flimsy plastic underbelly, except for a flimsy aluminum plate with a label pointing at it. This plate and the underbelly immediately deform, albeit minorly, as the jack is raised.

I find it simply UNBELIEVABLE and unaccaptable that Airstream's own official literature recommends a procedure which is likely to damage their product.

So, the concensus is NOT to use the official jack points and NOT to use the axles right, but rather to use the frame which supports the axle?

Fuming,
jon
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Old 11-10-2006, 11:52 AM   #24
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hi toasty how ya been?

i agree we've been 'jacked' on this jacking issue...

all the owners manuals still give the same locations and directions,

using the marked areas on th underbelly and aft frame...

yet the experts ALL use the axle mounting frame plates behind or between the wheels...

see the first picture in this thread canoe stream already linked...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/178629-post1.html

i'm been to the factory service center and even THEY use this position...

so why is the info provided customers is so different from what the experts do?

it could be that airstream has just missed this old advice or not had the energy to change the owners manual...

but i suspect its something else, like liability or legal issues...

is it possible that they've the notion using the axle mounting location is dangerous to us? is jacking in this closed space a greater risk to the novice, while using the 'marked' location is safer...even IF it stresses the frames?

that's just a wild guess but i cannot believe they've missed this issue...
when some many ask about it or need to change a tire...

for double axle or triple axle trailers needing a tire change
it is easier to just roll the good wheel up on a ramp like the 'trailer aid' and change the flat,
than jack it up anywhere...

http://www.traileraid.com/traileraid...CategoryId=267

cheers
2air'
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Old 11-10-2006, 12:44 PM   #25
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It is interesting that this is one of those issues that never gets resolved and keeps coming up.

In the 75 owner's manual it states 'under the main frame rail' and notes that a label is provided to help you find it. It also shows a hydraulic lifting point just aft the wheels with the stabilizing point much further aft. I thought I saw somewhere a warning against axle plate lifting but a quick look under jacking in the manual is vague and doesn't mention this.

It seems that the axle mounting plate makes more sense. That plate appears that it could be subject to twisting if lifting was not strictly vertical. Its rather thin on my Ambassador. I heard about a strengthening for this plate for mid 70's to help prevent buckling.

The main frame also makes sense but its biggest risk is making sure you hit it just right and there isn't much leeway in that targeting.

I am thinking that for normal wheel work I use something like Joe linked to. I worry about the load on one wheel or axle but this seems to be OK running at reduced speed so a couple of hours stationary shouldn't be a problem. This method has many advantages with safety being high on the list.

For multi wheel work or storage, I think I'd get a 4x6 that was long enough to go from one side to the other. Then jack that on both sides under the frame locations. It would be good to place that under a crosswise frame rail just aft the wheels I think.

Andy's test of proper main door operation is a good one to keep in mind, I think.

What also gets in here are some of the warnings about stabilizer jacking against lifting and the stresses they put on the frame. And when that gets tied in with frame droop and separation there is a lot of uncertainties to keep one worried and start a path to paranoia about frame health.
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Old 11-11-2006, 11:27 AM   #26
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Still kind of mystifies me that a manufacturer, after so many years of building essentially the same product would possess no knowledge of the proper lifting method. Seems kind of basic to me.
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Old 11-11-2006, 12:38 PM   #27
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Still kind of mystifies me that a manufacturer, after so many years of building essentially the same product would possess no knowledge of the proper lifting method. Seems kind of basic to me.
GM is older and much larger than Airstream ever could be.

GM has more people that sweep floors than Airstream has all together.

"Yet" GM still makes mistakes, year after year after year.

Sometimes the seemingly "simply things" may take two acts of cingress to correct.

What would we all do, if life was "perfect?"

Dunno.

Andy
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Old 11-11-2006, 03:02 PM   #28
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What would we all do, if life was "perfect?"
I know! Go camping!
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