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Wabbiteer · 02-02-2010, 06:32 PM

I've commented before on subfloor dew cycles - there is a limiting factor of a finite amount of water vapor available if the wrap/ band seam & the bumper trim is caulked correctly. Although the non-vented space may hold a higher humidity during some parts of the day, at other times being 'static air space' arrests the cavities from gaining more humidity that would condense out into live moisture.

As an example the vapor pressure of damp earth holding the morning and evening dew cycles at just the right height to be drawn into a vented subfloor section. Here in Minnesota anytime the ground is not frozen that humidity boost rusts my disc brake rotors overnight and generally wreaks havoc with any metal implements not kept in a controlled air space.

Bowmans · 02-07-2010, 04:46 PM

Adwriter,
I am with you on not wanting to drop the bellypan. I may need to eventually but it seemed in great shape for 30 years old and really didn't need all of that just yet on ours. If you go that route, let us know how it went.

Thanks for the compliments on our trailer. Any questions you have on what we have done, feel free to ask. I took tons of photos and am just waiting on the snow to go away to try and finish the interior. The snow isn't cooperating much this year though...

Becky B. · 02-07-2010, 06:39 PM

Adwriter,

Your frame looks to be in great shape compared to my 1986 Sovereign. Some of my outriggers were rusted through. They were directly under where the trailer had leaks when purchased. My son just welded a bunch of new ones on for me last week. If this area is the only area you had leaks, I'd just POR-15 the rusted frame that you can get to & figure the rest of the frame is in decent shape as well. Look up my thread Terrified of the bellypan! and you'll see why I would avoid dropping that thing if I could. If you do drop it, you really should remove all the insulation while you have it off. It's a really big job that I'm still working on (and waiting for the weather to break!) I personally think yours would be fine.

adwriter73 · 02-14-2010, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VIKING

Do use a rust convertor. Primer and paint alone do not do the same job.

Rich the Viking

Rich, are you saying not to rust converter because it will have a negative effect on the aluminum? A couple of others recommended using a rust converter. Just want to make sure I'm clear on the pros and cons of this.

VIKING · 02-14-2010, 11:31 AM

Rust convertor changes the rust through a chemical process. The rust becomes a protective barrier. Rust inhibiting primers and paints, like Rustoleum, don't have this effect. The rust will come through the paint pretty soon. Iv'e never heard of a problem with rust convertor and aluminum, but thats probably because they really don't come into contact with each other except at the botttom of frame and the ends of the outriggers. I had the bellypan down when I did that part, so when it went back together the aluminum was only in contact with the surface paint.
So, I'm saying definitely do use a rust convertor if you are using rustoleum paints. For those who use POR-15 I have never heard of them using a rust convertor. I suspect it's not necessary with that paint, though someone with direct experience may have more info on that.

Best to you,
Rich the Viking

Quote:

Originally Posted by adwriter73

Rich, are you saying not to rust converter because it will have a negative effect on the aluminum? A couple of others recommended using a rust converter. Just want to make sure I'm clear on the pros and cons of this.

adwriter73 · 02-14-2010, 03:15 PM

Just realized you said "do use a rust converter". Haha. I read it as "do not." Sorry. I bought Mar-Hyde rust converter at the auto paint and body shop. Hopefully this will do some good.

Becky B. · 02-14-2010, 03:16 PM

Por-15 adherese (sp) to rust. First you wire brush the metal, use their product called Marine Clean to degrease the metal, and then use their product called Metal Ready before painting on the Por-15. It is expensive, but leaves a very smooth, hard finish. You have to recoat it after 5 hours. It will fade in color if exposed to the sun, but obviously your frame isn't exposed so you don't have to worry about the appearance of the color. I used it & am very happy with it.

VIKING · 02-14-2010, 06:58 PM

Do you mind letting me know approximately how much it cost you to do this? I kept track of what I spent on material to do mine with 1qt Jasco rust convertor, 2qts Rustoleum rusty metal primer, and 2qts Rustoleum red paint, plus brushes and solvent, rags etc. I'm into mine for about $75. The POR-15 is about $38 per quart, but I hear it goes a long way. I didn't know about the other products you mention here though.

Rich the Viking

Quote:

Originally Posted by beckybillrae

Por-15 adherese (sp) to rust. First you wire brush the metal, use their product called Marine Clean to degrease the metal, and then use their product called Metal Ready before painting on the Por-15. It is expensive, but leaves a very smooth, hard finish. You have to recoat it after 5 hours. It will fade in color if exposed to the sun, but obviously your frame isn't exposed so you don't have to worry about the appearance of the color. I used it & am very happy with it.

Becky B. · 02-14-2010, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VIKING

Do you mind letting me know approximately how much it cost you to do this? I kept track of what I spent on material to do mine with 1qt Jasco rust convertor, 2qts Rustoleum rusty metal primer, and 2qts Rustoleum red paint, plus brushes and solvent, rags etc. I'm into mine for about $75. The POR-15 is about $38 per quart, but I hear it goes a long way. I didn't know about the other products you mention here though.

Rich the Viking

I used 1 quart of Por-15 on the front section of my 31' Sovereign. I'll use less than that on the rear portion of the trailer (waiting for it to get above 50 degrees). I'll have used a $10.99 container of Marine Clean and a $15.99 container of Metal Ready by the time I'm finished with the frame & outriggers. I used a different kind of rust converter by Eastland paint products & used the Rustoleum over that on the rear bumper section of my trailer last year. It didn't hold up well at all. I thought I'd try that because I could spray it rather than brush. I then used the Por-15 on my tongue section of the trailer & really liked it. It's REALLY tuff. All of the Por-15 items you need are at Vintage Trailer Supply. I use throw out .50 cent brushes from Harbor Freight.

VIKING · 02-14-2010, 07:25 PM

Thanks, I still need to address my A-frame and rear bumper areas and I was concerned about using the Rustoleum there due to the constant weathering. I think I will use POR-15 on these areas.
Happy Valentines day!

Rich the Viking

Wabbiteer · 02-14-2010, 08:14 PM

Add around the stairs, black tank and battery box, solid outriggers at the wheel wells, exposed frame at wheel wells as minimum to your POR-15 work.

I got the entire frame (except inside the ladder frame forward of axles to the hitch frame welds) for two coats, three in places that needed it in just one quart - but I did add 5% of their thinner to the quart and that helped stretch it. It was cool the whole time I painted but around 2AM the temps had dropped below 40F as I was finishing up and it all worked out great.

BEWARE the vapors when you are applying the second coat, its the kicking product that will tag you with a gobsmack hangover the next day so try to stay upwind or have the right cartridges in your respirator. Second coat should go on just as the 1st coats film has just a slight drag when brushed with fingertips.

I used a lightweight 11w fluorescent drop light (with remote ballast) and held that in left hand while I was painting with the right and that good lighting made for a great paint job even if half of it 'was in the dark'...

adwriter73 · 02-23-2010, 11:11 AM

Ok, so I went a little crazy the other day and decided to go ahead and open up the belly pan. I realized that taking off the belly band and just dropping the banana wraps and sides wasn't a complicated thing and would allow me to remove the pink insulation and address some of the rusted frame issues. It also let me get a better look at what kind of rust problem I really have. Here is my question now: Is it pointless to treat one side of the rusted frame? Meaning, I can only treat the areas I can reach with the sides opened up. Obviously the bottom of the frame that touches the belly pan and the interior side of the frame won't get addressed.

In the pics you can see that I have coated the outriggers and the outside-facing area of the main frame with a rust converter/neutralizer. I'm going to go back with Rustloeum primer and Rustoleum paint.

Becky B. · 02-27-2010, 04:48 PM

Did you only drop the banana wrap & not the center belly pan? I'm thinking that's what you've done. On my trailer, most of the rust was on the outriggers. The center of my frame was fine. The part that wasn't fine was that the pink insulation had been nested in by something & was nasty. If you haven't had any leakage in the middle of your trailer, the frame should be alright. I wouldn't worry about not being able to reach all sides of your frame. Unless you do a frame-off restoration, you'll never be able to paint all sides of it. Not too many people attempt that with a 31' trailer!

adwriter73 · 02-28-2010, 08:36 AM

yeah, i just dropped the perimeter skins. pretty easy to do, all things considered.

VIKING · 02-28-2010, 03:35 PM

The center pan is actually pretty easy to drop if you are inclined to get rid of the insulation, which I always recommend. The frame looks great, so I wouldn't open it up for that reason alone. The insulation adds to the issue of frame rusting as it holds moisture against the frame and against the plywood in some areas, too. All in all, it probably makes sense to remove it and solve any issues down there now, while you are already into it this far................

We call this "The Slippery Slope"
Welcome!

Rich the Viking

adwriter73 · 02-28-2010, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VIKING

The center pan is actually pretty easy to drop if you are inclined to get rid of the insulation, which I always recommend. The frame looks great, so I wouldn't open it up for that reason alone. The insulation adds to the issue of frame rusting as it holds moisture against the frame and against the plywood in some areas, too. All in all, it probably makes sense to remove it and solve any issues down there now, while you are already into it this far................

We call this "The Slippery Slope"
Welcome!

Rich the Viking

Don't temp me!

C Johnson · 02-28-2010, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beckybillrae

Por-15 adherese (sp) to rust. First you wire brush the metal, use their product called Marine Clean to degrease the metal, and then use their product called Metal Ready before painting on the Por-15. It is expensive, but leaves a very smooth, hard finish. You have to recoat it after 5 hours. It will fade in color if exposed to the sun, but obviously your frame isn't exposed so you don't have to worry about the appearance of the color. I used it & am very happy with it.

I used it too and this stuff is as hard as concrete. I did my whole frame with it. The amazing part is that when it is cured you can hit it with a hammer and it will not chip, at all, no matter how many times you wack it.