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Old 09-28-2011, 10:35 AM   #1
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Hey y'all watch this... (shell game)

Or, "Shell-off after the Love is gone..."

Yesterday was a rain day so I organized some of my project pictures to make up yet another shell-off thread.

Honestly only a little extra spiritual energy exists to report posts on this the end of destruction of my 73 27' Overlander and I need to stay focused. Fine. For all my education and maturity I am leading this post with poop-chat but with a warning - cheery poster-logic witticisms, sayings and cuteness will be loathed and ignored

Seems as if long ago the entire plywood floor got soaked with septic stuff & formaldehyde; long term overflow, maybe a intentional flooding as vandalism or innocent city-water connected leak that geysered the BW tank while the residents were absent, or trailer caught in a flash flood reversing the plumbing...

Whatever it is someone should have gone to jail or been forced to live in it until they shell-off'd themselves.

Painting the floor helped only a little bit, even painting both sides – it is even in the fiberglass clamped between the frame-floor as well as all the hidden areas under the channels & frame blah blah so the floor is condemned 100%.

Removing liners erased a spacious rodent campus - rear end cap was the worst seconded by the entire galley side with the front lower sections third. Huge aroma makers

The shells' fiberglass insulation was wetted w/ a machine oil to reduce moisture holding & dust & squeak. This was one of the strong undertones to the aroma I detested - like a stalled electric motor overheating. I kept wondering if testing the batts for PCB’s would’ve condemned every early 70’s Airstream on the planet – remember Vietnam's Agent Orange problems came from carrier oils that were just from the lowest bidder and we know how cheap… er, I’ll shuddup now.

The liners are all out with both sides stiffly scrubbed with a deck-brush & spic'n span plus comet chlorine no-scratch cleanser scouring yet sniffing the stacked pile there’s still a bad smell on one or more sheets. Kind of reinforces the rain flood idea, stanky lower liner syndrome.

pictures.................
  1. Dregs of insulation glued to shell from spray-on contact cement after the batts have been torn out. Way depressing if one is hoping for a truly clean interior shell.
  2. One of the long term occupied mouse condos. Better than the Norway Rat burrows under the floor. Don't flinch at removing wraps or liners if things look mousey.
  3. Insulation dregs brushed off with a circular brush chucked up in a power drill. Extremely messy - body suit/respirator/face mask time. Of course the brush is no longer available anywhere, I'll include a picture of it later just to share my aggravation.
  4. Front ceiling vent showing signs of repair-replacement. Looks like I know where the new vent fan is going, though I'd hoped to put it in the middle location.
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Old 09-28-2011, 10:45 AM   #2
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Shell is free and resting on sleepers. I built pylons to hold cross-rails, so now shell is elevated.

And, of course, 60MPH wind gusts forecast yesterday for next county north had be scrambling to anchor elevated shell - ended up candy cane striping heavy rope through the frame and over top the shell as ballast. Glad I didn't pull the frame out first chance I got.

TIP - modern lumber fresh from the stores has been sprayed willy-nilly with silicone lubricant to lower wear and tear on the mills' machinery, and reduce energy costs handling it. That translates to any stick-built frame having very low friction where load bearing pieces have contact if not dovetailed with braces or pinned by screws and bolts. With just a 7" maximum tilt when lifting the front/rear over sixteen feet resulted in the shell drifting nearly eight inches down-slope as the various lifts and blocking occurred. At least the 3" side-to-side skew erased when the binding side groaned free. Make nylon wrap-frapped rope stays or notch the fulcrum point to keep shell from moving!


pictures...........

  1. $100 worth of stick lumber and $25 worth of screws and bolts. Lift height adjustable in 7-inch increments to match the bottle jacks' lift, able to lower shell to seventeen-inch height if weather is coming or winter arrives early.
  2. Detail of rear cross-brace & shell sleeper. Have plenty of 6x6" blocks for cribbing if you want to try doing it this way. Having the outside pylons higher than the cross-rail beams keeps shell from toppling if/when the bottle jacks tip over. Don't ask.
  3. Shell interior waiting for a couple of coats of insulating paint (to be covered later)
  4. Detail of variable height lift pylons.
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Old 09-28-2011, 10:49 AM   #3
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Next step was boosting the shell front for the wheel wells to clear the shell support rails & pull the frame/floor out from underneath. The bottle jacks I have give an eight-inch range of motion so I lift shell in seven and one quarter inch steps & slide the cross rails into the supports with notches to match. Also provided in these pylons is ability to lower shell to seventeen inches height to guard against wind damage.

pictures.........
  1. These all pretty much speak for themselves!
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Old 09-28-2011, 10:56 AM   #4
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Great pics!! Keep it comming!!
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Old 09-28-2011, 11:03 AM   #5
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Cut out six outriggers and have four welded back in. Heavied up the metal, hope no one catches one anywhere as it will tear the frame out before the outrigger gives.

80 foot of floor to frame interface that I am trying to keep squeak-free, considering using strips of 1/8" dense silicon aviation gasket, say 3" wide, and use anything I can (staples, spray adhesive) to keep it in place long enough to clamp the plywood down on top of it. Maybe 3M double-sided weather-stripping tape, leave the paper on the wood side. Still up in the air on that one.

Today (thread is now current) I am welding and prepping frame for paint - remember I'd already POR-15'd the entire frame except the areas hidden by the floor. I'd not felt such relief in a long time as I had when I'd cleaned the last of the malignant fiberglass from between the iron and plywood. I apologize to the assembly line crews for all the fond thoughts directed at you during the last few years.

Okay - I am out to work, will repost when I get time!!

  1. Evidence some nasty chemical reactions were at work - the #12 hardened steel screw has dissolved while nested in the double layer of plywood where a backer plate was.
  2. Three of six of the new outriggers installed
  3. More general nastiness and proof painting the floor won't disperse odors - the step aluminum sheet held a pool of water that reeked of the odd smell I dislike sooo much.
  4. Complete waste of 90¢ a square foot installation of Prodex Insulation w/ airspace, sealed with oil-based kilz, Vulkem caulk glued & monel rust-proof staples fastened floor on the way to the landfill. Proof-of-Concept successful, moisture and vermin free.
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Old 09-28-2011, 08:41 PM   #6
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Quote:
80 foot of floor to frame interfacing that I am trying to keep squeak-free
Any ideas?

And that title looks funky, it abbreviates it to just "Hey y'all watch this" so I think I'm requesting it to be changed to "Shell-off after the Love is gone..."
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Old 09-28-2011, 08:55 PM   #7
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Did I get this right? You did a bunch of work, put in the Prodex, then decided to replace the floor? That encourages me to just do the floor on mine now, even if it seems alright. Better safe that sorry!
Thanks for posting this info!
Carolyn
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Old 09-29-2011, 06:17 PM   #8
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Quote:
Did I get this right? You did a bunch of work, put in the Prodex, then decided to replace the floor?
Yup. I almost became that Joe Somewhen who covers up trouble for someone else to deal with (hiss!)... The floor insulation happened while the interior was in place except the bathroom, I'd expected to find one smell spot that would get the trailer back sweet-smelling. BZZZT, wrong. If you want the trailer to feel new and like its truly yours just do it.

I cut another three outriggers loose to adjust them, they'd stitch welded the vertical axle mounting plate and it flexed out inbetween the stitches where the shell bracket outriggers weight was borne; the brackets never tied into the top main ladder frame so they pulled the axle plate out. The outside edges were 3/8" or 7/16" below the frame rail height.

My guess is the old ALCAN highway about 1975 and 300 miles of washboard roads. I'll stitch across the opening with an add-in piece also.

I will add another outrigger on rear streetside to match curbside, and am thinking about some angle iron added to reduce floor flex but will probably skip that.

Gotta love the Miller 145 DX gasoline welder I glommed onto off Craigslist... We rinsed the tank and lines out and it started 3rd pull, the three-year dead battery will even electric start it. I was welding with too little amperage, I cranked it up and am laying nice beads now.

pictures..........

  1. Just look at the rotten bolts and screws! The trailers will thank you for going the whole refurbishment route! This is a magnet broom I made up to sweep paint-stripper wire wheel bristles up with (I got needled working on the ground) when I painted the frame a couple of years back.
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Old 10-01-2011, 04:11 PM   #9
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The last few days work makes nine outriggers R/R'd, for seven new metal and two repositioned. The repositioning with the old metal was an education how little it takes to blast holes in 40-year-old rusted metal, even 1/16" 6011 fresh rod merrily melt the steel if attempting more than just stitch tacking with long cool off periods! It would be a different story with a MIG or even flux-core wire welder.

I'm also seeing how poorly POR-15 bonds with any trace of the old frame paint left on - true, there is only a little rust happening but its like shrink wrap that will peel with saltine cracker sized flakes with a little worrying on it. I had previously wire-wheel and abrasive biscuit cleaned most of the frame and some spots kept a waxy sheen even with solvent wiping. The smartest person would have an appointment with a shop to have it stripped and painted but I am out of time, double coat of POR and keep marching

Also many of the coarse blisters of rust that I could not reach to scrape entirely loose had trapped water from the POR-15 locking it in that deepened the rust pits a bunch - undercutting too, but only on sizable rust blisters. Since I painted the frame before with the floor 'on' there were more than a few of those problem areas.

Also am seeing DeRusto flat-black aerosol was very ineffective - many of the inboard spars I only quick coated since they appeared 'nearly' new now have orange rust spots blooming all over them so they are on the paint list.

So... Now angle-grinder w/ twisted bristle brush cleaning as much metal as I can in this three hours until dark I have today, tomorrow the POR-15 makes its appearance.

No good pictures lately either, sorry, and my break is over so back to work
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Old 10-04-2011, 09:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
80 foot of floor to frame interfacing that I am trying to keep squeak-free
Wow - no feedback, zero. Strange. I would hate to glue down new flooring with Vulkem, any alternate ideas?

I had a Sherwin-Williams automotive products salesman look in on me today, he got interested listening to my questions, and he gave me an hour of his time and more than a few tips, and tried to sell me nothing. Looked over my set-up and just said go-go-go! I've asked him to research what to paint the shell innards with to seal up odors and help with insulation, the sprayed glue for the fiberglass is going to get covered up for sure!

I'm about to join the elite club of whomever has shell-offed a DIY frame rehabilition: R/R bad frame elements, stripped an AS frame by hand w/ angle grinder and wire wheels, 3M biscuits and flap sander... Bead blast inside corner welds, solvent wiped everything to clear off the dregs of the asphalt based frame paint, degreased it with scouring pad and zinc treat the metal to finish then with two coats of POR-15... and it hurts. Ouch. I am ready to spray POR-15 but only need to finish the zinc-etch step. yeah!

I have a good report on the POR-15 metal prep items - the marine-clean is similar to products I used working for a Subway System, diluted 5 or 8 to 1 it still kicks but. The Prep and Ready product simply works, leaves the bright iron looking like 600-grit wet-dry paper..

The thing done here at this house that made the interior tear-out possible was building a tarp-tent shelter to stage interior pieces and tools etc out of... $800~ shelter... including the 9 tons of fill dirt needed to raise and level the site, the sleeper rails pinned to into the earth, eight buried deadman anchors, an inch of packed peat moss below the flooring and indoor/outdoor carpet to make it easy to stay inside it...

pictures.....

  1. Its been up almost a year - the tarp stuff seems to be handling MN sunshine okay so far. It only has to last till mid-summer next, to stage the parts trailer interior pieces in before they get used in project trailer.
  2. $35 of chipboard flooring, $17 clearance carpet, some recycled fence sections for knee-walls and flooring, a couple of CFL lamps and its ready for...
  3. Junk!
  4. Donor trailer on left - 1972 w/ bent frame and roll-over damage, and a little foreshadowing of the incentive I have to get this buttoned up soon... (winter happens)
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Old 10-04-2011, 09:42 PM   #11
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And a photo of the frame this morning, before degreasing started. You can see four-year-old POR-15 on the axle mounting plates and the rear frame section where I'd already pulled a floor sheet out. Very happy with POR-15, put on bare metal w/ two or three coats it takes a grinding wheel to grind it away and even then it just does not give up easy.

What PO-15 is left on the frame now stays on the frame now, its been sanded in prep for the new coats. The UV exposure of our weaker MN sun only turned a thin surface layer into soot, I'll top coat the hitch A-frame, axle mounting plates and bumper supports with something or another - thinking maybe bedliner paint.

Also pictured is one of Andy's new axles, now over three years old with ZERO highway miles.

EDIT - yanno I'd already POR-15'd the frame w/ floor on, but mostly it was a quick bandage over the old paint - and it merrily flaked and peeled off under the wire brush. The black left on in random places it where it managed to get a grip, I'd tried some solvent wiping (brake cleaner) and that really almost worked well as a quick fix w/o doing the POR-15 system, frame rails I'd wiped down had well-bonded paint.
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Old 10-06-2011, 03:01 PM   #12
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Rivet HVLP POR-15 spraying!

Taking mid-day break ~ that's first quart of POR-15 applied, got all except two center spars painted 1st coat w/ one quart. Now I have to wait an hour or more for this coat to harden before over-coating.

I used a $25 w/ coupon 20oz gravity feed HVLP gun and its working great, I bet the little bit of paint I was short is exactly what I used to practice and adjust the gun with...

Next quart will be harder since there is no color difference - these quarts are the aluminum flake silver color and painting over black and bare metal was easy!

I keep daydreaming about having a frame jig to flip frame or hold it vertical and how it sure would be nice about now. Between laying down to paint lower sides and high-stepping between frame partitions this could be hazardous to one's health. The organic vapor cartridges in the respirator makes fumes a non-issue.

The $14 in-line desiccant has turned evenly half 'red' from blue, its a discard when its all red. Having air lines running on cold ground 100-foot to the local tank and sprayer line seems to get a lot of condensation, more so than if the lines were hanging in the air. Just a thought.

Anyhow - time to go ponder stirring the POR, thinning it and then decanting into three portions to quick load the sprayer...

Pictures when I finish
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Old 10-06-2011, 07:15 PM   #13
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~ Woot ~ 26 minutes after sunset, second quart sprayed, all thats left is to clean the gun ~ Woot ~



Dew Point: 37.9 F (3.3 C) Relative Humidity: 20%
^^ the paint isn't kicking, not enough moisture!!
Temp: 82.0 F (27.8 C) Wind: 17 MPH gusting to 24 MPH
^^ bugs, leaves, small mammals plastered into first coat..
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Old 10-06-2011, 08:48 PM   #14
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As long as yer first coat dried completely, the second should be fine, humidity notwithstanding. I think I saw on the Weather Channel that Twin Mosquitoes was actually warmer today than Atlanta. You'll be ok. I painted mine on in cool, dry weather. No problems noted to date.

Keep it up, and hurry up before the snow gets there.

Jim
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