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dbj216 · 12-05-2013, 06:24 PM

I have dropped the belly pan and wire brushed the frame members on my 66 Trade Wind. I don't have very much rust. Yea! I can't sand blast it in the shop I'm in.

I need your good tips on applying the POR 15 by hand. It slmost seems like mission impossible. POR 15 instructions state:

1. Marine clean by spraying say 3 to 1 on the frame. By hand! The Airstream isn't oily or greasy, but the instructions say to spray this degreaser on the metal. Then I will have to wipe it off with a wet towel as I can't spray water in this shop either.

2. Metal Prep by spraying by hand! Leave wet for 30 minutes! Keep spraying! I'll have to wipe it off with a wet sponge or towel. There are lots of nooks and crannys in an Airstream frame as you well know. It may be several days before I can get back to begin POR 15 painting. Is that okay? I'll have a bad case of wrist tendenites befoe I'm done squeezing that hand sprayer.

3. Brush on POR 15 with good ventilation. Is a fan good enough? I'll wear my mask. I am working under my trailer with about 2' floor to frame. Second coat within 5 hours. I estimate it will take me 3 hours to brush coat the entire 24 foot frame. "Humidity best at 50%." I'll be lucky to get 30% during the winter months around here. The shop is 60 degrees F. It is a 80,000 sq foot shop that I rent 10,000 feet for the winter monthis. So it is a big area and the furnace runs a lot.

Do folks do sections of the frame one at a time? Let's say I can get about three frame "bays" done at a time using the leave 30 minute wet instruction for prep, and 5 hour dry instruction for POR 15 2nd coat.

Doing a Model T with POR 15 seems a whole lot easier than trying to do an Airstream frame on my back without runniing water.

Your experience would be helpful.

David

PS Picture below before removing old insulation and wire brushing...

lonewolf1977 · 12-05-2013, 07:00 PM

Hey David--you and I are in the same phase it appears. I'm doing a shell on resto, in NC where we are having 70 degree temps but 100% humidity. I did the marine clean & metal prep earlier in the week. To answer you initial question, we are doing the front & rear sections. We will be brushing it on, but if you have access to a sprayer you can probably get it done faster.

dbj216 · 12-06-2013, 05:14 AM

Thanks for your reply. I'm thinking a paint sprayer would cover me with POR 15 as I just don't have the room to get good angles and distance with a sprayer. I read those who apply with a brush ought to use a foam brush.

I may have to do the frame in sections to get the timing right. Four to five hours dry time between coats of POR 15 will make it a very long day.

How have others applied POR 15 to the frame with the body still attached?

Have fun with your renovation. Old Airstreams make great projects.

David

Ganaraska · 12-06-2013, 10:27 AM

You could buy a cheap garden sprayer.

65will · 12-06-2013, 11:16 AM

I did my Trade Wind with a brush, I have used POR on alot of auto restorations also, Make sure you cover anything you don't want it on, including yourself. It tends to get everywhere you dont want it. It is a great product. Take your time and have fun. Your frame looks great in the picture.

perryg114 · 12-06-2013, 11:30 AM

I think you could get by with just wire brushing and put the POR15 right on top of it without prep. If it is old weathered metal and paint then you don't need much prep. If you have new metal that maybe preserved with oil or other slick surfaces then they need prep. The worse the condition of the metal the better the stuff sticks. If you are going to all the prep trouble you can just use regular paint. The whole idea behind POR 15 (Paint Over Rust) is to make it easy to use.

Perry

desertair27 · 12-06-2013, 11:59 AM

I'd called POR15 direct and see what they say. You want to do it right the first time. Keep your head on the creepers headrest as much as possible or your neck will get strained before you know. Been there done that and no fun!
Mike

dbj216 · 12-07-2013, 05:36 AM

Maybe I will give POR a call and ask advice. I imagine they will say follow the instructions. My frame has been wire brushed with a small power tool. Maybe 10 hours worth of work. Wow, what a dirty job! The wire brush took a lot of the dust and surface rust off. Where the tool fit good, I have shiny metal. There are nooks and crannys where there is still dirt and surface rust, especially the outriggers and frame corners.

Perry, your idea is a nice throght. POR says you can paint directly on sand blasted surfaces. I have 48 year old "seasoned metal". I have brushed most of the dirt and surface rust off of it. I would like to brush POR 15 directly on to the metal without all the wet prep stuff. I'll call POR 15 and see what they say.

I wire brushed my 86 frame and then used rattle can Rustoleum primer and paint. Cheaper and easer, but I have no idea how it is holding up. POR 15 is a proven product.

David

dougandlori · 12-07-2013, 09:22 AM

I have used POR 15 on a number of projects, it works great, it is messy. No matter how I cover myself I always seem to find some product on my hands and it does take a good week for it to be completely gone. With that the down size I would use it again.
Doug

Silverflames · 12-07-2013, 09:41 AM

No matter what paint you use, you will need to clean the dirt, fiberglass, mouse poop, and other funk off the frame. The cleaner the metal is the better bond the paint can make. POR 15 Worked great for me. Even the drips get rock hard. I had to do the same thing, wash and wipe the frame down. The Marine Clean is just a de greaser. Metal prep is for new metal or is your painting over a smooth surface you want to scar up. The wire brush should have scared it up plenty.

I second coated the next day. No problems so far. I painted over old rusty frame, and new galvanized steel.

And yes, once thus stuff dries on you it has to grow off..

dbj216 · 12-07-2013, 04:51 PM

Thanks Silverflames. Your preped frame kinda looks like mine after I cleaned it, but yours looks better! Most of the funky stuff is cleaned off. POR likes surface rust. And the stiff wire brushing certainly left scratches and swirls on the surface of the old metal.

I hear ya about getting it on me and my clothes. Maybe I need a HazMet suit. I do have a respriator, fan, face shield, long rubber gloves and coveralls.

I'm thinking I will paint it with POR 15 as it sits.

David

Silverflames · 12-07-2013, 05:29 PM

Just a FYI that is the painted silver Por 15. If it sits in sunlight it will yellow in about a week. But yes tough stuff. I used a full face mask, long gloves, t shirt, and old pants. I just rolled down my selves at work for a week. It was mid summer in Fl so that was all I could stand to wear.

perryg114 · 12-08-2013, 08:36 AM

There is some stuff that is similar to POR15 called Aluthane and it can be used as a top coat. It is Aluminum filled polyurethane.

Perry

dbj216 · 12-08-2013, 05:09 PM

I'm thinking I'm going to apply POR 15 directly to my wire brushed frame.
It has surface rust on it, but otherwise not too bad. I'm thinking about it because I'm lazy!

David

perryg114 · 12-08-2013, 06:03 PM

My experience with the stuff is it will stick to any rough surface even dirty surfaces. It will bond to your skin and has to wear off. Most folks that are using this stuff are using it on old oil soaked car frames and nothing will stick to oil. Since you don't have an engine and the belly skin protects the frame from oil contamination from the road there is no motor oil covering your frame. You need to use the whole can or transfer it to dry glass jars or it will harden. Separate the stuff you will keep from the stuff you stuck the brush in. Any moisture will harden it.

Perry

dbj216 · 12-09-2013, 03:40 PM

David, stop whinning and get to work!

Thanks for the idea to use a cheap garden sprayer. The wife had one on her shelf. Hopefully she won't miss it. Hopefully Metal Prep will kill broadleafs.

The metal prep sprayed well with the garden sprayer. Pumping now and then was easier than squeezing continually. The metal prep stayed wet for about 20 minutes. Then I wiped it down the best I could with a wet towel. Metal prep did remove some rust, I think it is quite caustic.

So I believe I'm ready for two coats of POR 15. I hope the first coat dries quicker than 5 hours.

David

Wabbiteer · 12-09-2013, 09:45 PM

POR has a mineral spirits carrier that needs to evaporate AND a humidity-driven catalyst reaction that turns the paint glass hard.

IF you're painting in MN with the cold dry air? Remember heating outside air lowers humidity even further, the 0° air at 80%RH will go to 10%RH (or less) at 70°F.. You mentioned 5 hours - not really enough humidity to get the POR to cure fast - can you get some steam, teakettle or water on boil in the shop?

The mineral spirit fumes are run of the mill to be around but beware once the paint catalyst starts firing is the hangover-producing part of being around POR, OR just when the first coat has the "slight finger grab' and you're brushing on the next coat is just when you should have fresh air - or a respirator which I did well with spraying my frame until I was cleaning the sprayer and breathed a solid shot of paint/thinner mist and had my gloves melt in solvent.

dbj216 · 12-10-2013, 05:49 PM

Hello Wabbiteer in St Paul,

I hope you don't have to work outside in this cold. You know your POR 15. Thanks for the help. My rented shop space here in Delano includes a snow removal company. They have plow trucks dripping all over the floor. The floor is wet. The windows of the shop are steamed over. But I don't know the RH. My glasses fog over as soon as I step inside. We keep the shop at 55 to 60 F. It is 40k square feet, plenty big and lots of air.

Maybe I can do one coat the first day, and then a second coat the next day? My POR 15 may not dry too fast in these cold, dry weather conditions.

David

Wabbiteer · 12-10-2013, 11:01 PM

With eyeglasses fogging thats enough to kick the paint. The cool will slow it down but not much.

1st round with POR I painted in until midnight or 1AM and temps dipped to 30°F by the time I was finishing my 2nd/3rd coats. Paint cured just fine, just about the time you finish the first coat and inspect it for misses it's time to repeat the exact paint lay down so all parts have a nearly equal 1st coat cure time. Do the second coat immediately. Yes - get there at 5AM and paint until its done blah blah blah. I would paint and then go back over a 3 or 4 foot section quickly & then move on.

You want to catch the magic minute when the paint still has a little softness to it and schlep on that next coat - there's no negotiating with it. POR is a watery paint, goes on very fast - but may want to not 'fill' pits but leave an air bubble that usually puffs up and pops as it dries, thats what going back over it while its in an arms' reach or two really helps out.

I used a cheap 2" brush and was amazed how fast the POR goes on - I also used a hand-held 13w compact fluorescent drop light to fight shadows & catch the rust pit bubbles, missed or thin areas and to make sure the welds got saturated.

I decanted the quarts into smaller glass jars, used 'canned air' to flood the jars as I poured the paint in to keep air w/ humidity from mixing in and it worked perfectly, a couple of jars sat for 12 months with zero pressure build up from CO2 being released as paint cures.

About eight ounces at a time work well but even then the bottom of the jar had the paint turning into softened butter from dipping the brush so many times. The froth still painted and cured but it soon went 'click' and hardened. Especially important if your space is as humid as you mentioned - decant the paint outdoors and still use argon or canned air etc. Just a added little nuisance so after 10 hours of work your last pint hasn't hardened and leave you unfinished.

A mechanics creeper will help you discover muscles you've forgotten about. Bring a brown bag lunch or three.

If you get near the Metro I'd gift you with a pint of their solvent I have left over - I thinned their paint 2 or 3% and added a bit more when it started to thicken.

dbj216 · 12-11-2013, 05:56 AM

Oh thank you kindly for sharing your POR 15 experiences. It is really helpful. I'm going to do more research before I start in. And I will make sure I have plenty of time for the second coat. I clearly now understand there is no deviation allowed in the time between the first and second coats. When it's skinned over, apply the second coat. I was going to do the second coat the next day. I'll bring the sack lunch instead. And I like the small jar technique. My idea of a paint tray for easy paint brush dipping and to help minimize the drips won't work with this stuff.

There is more to applying POR 15 than applying latex paint in the spare bedroom! Thanks for your help.

David