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Old 12-08-2013, 07:03 PM   #15
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My experience with the stuff is it will stick to any rough surface even dirty surfaces. It will bond to your skin and has to wear off. Most folks that are using this stuff are using it on old oil soaked car frames and nothing will stick to oil. Since you don't have an engine and the belly skin protects the frame from oil contamination from the road there is no motor oil covering your frame. You need to use the whole can or transfer it to dry glass jars or it will harden. Separate the stuff you will keep from the stuff you stuck the brush in. Any moisture will harden it.

Perry
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Old 12-09-2013, 04:40 PM   #16
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David, stop whinning and get to work!

Thanks for the idea to use a cheap garden sprayer. The wife had one on her shelf. Hopefully she won't miss it. Hopefully Metal Prep will kill broadleafs.

The metal prep sprayed well with the garden sprayer. Pumping now and then was easier than squeezing continually. The metal prep stayed wet for about 20 minutes. Then I wiped it down the best I could with a wet towel. Metal prep did remove some rust, I think it is quite caustic.

So I believe I'm ready for two coats of POR 15. I hope the first coat dries quicker than 5 hours.

David
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Old 12-09-2013, 10:45 PM   #17
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POR has a mineral spirits carrier that needs to evaporate AND a humidity-driven catalyst reaction that turns the paint glass hard.

IF you're painting in MN with the cold dry air? Remember heating outside air lowers humidity even further, the 0 air at 80%RH will go to 10%RH (or less) at 70F.. You mentioned 5 hours - not really enough humidity to get the POR to cure fast - can you get some steam, teakettle or water on boil in the shop?

The mineral spirit fumes are run of the mill to be around but beware once the paint catalyst starts firing is the hangover-producing part of being around POR, OR just when the first coat has the "slight finger grab' and you're brushing on the next coat is just when you should have fresh air - or a respirator which I did well with spraying my frame until I was cleaning the sprayer and breathed a solid shot of paint/thinner mist and had my gloves melt in solvent.
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Old 12-10-2013, 06:49 PM   #18
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Hello Wabbiteer in St Paul,

I hope you don't have to work outside in this cold. You know your POR 15. Thanks for the help. My rented shop space here in Delano includes a snow removal company. They have plow trucks dripping all over the floor. The floor is wet. The windows of the shop are steamed over. But I don't know the RH. My glasses fog over as soon as I step inside. We keep the shop at 55 to 60 F. It is 40k square feet, plenty big and lots of air.

Maybe I can do one coat the first day, and then a second coat the next day? My POR 15 may not dry too fast in these cold, dry weather conditions.

David
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Old 12-11-2013, 12:01 AM   #19
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With eyeglasses fogging thats enough to kick the paint. The cool will slow it down but not much.

1st round with POR I painted in until midnight or 1AM and temps dipped to 30F by the time I was finishing my 2nd/3rd coats. Paint cured just fine, just about the time you finish the first coat and inspect it for misses it's time to repeat the exact paint lay down so all parts have a nearly equal 1st coat cure time. Do the second coat immediately. Yes - get there at 5AM and paint until its done blah blah blah. I would paint and then go back over a 3 or 4 foot section quickly & then move on.

You want to catch the magic minute when the paint still has a little softness to it and schlep on that next coat - there's no negotiating with it. POR is a watery paint, goes on very fast - but may want to not 'fill' pits but leave an air bubble that usually puffs up and pops as it dries, thats what going back over it while its in an arms' reach or two really helps out.

I used a cheap 2" brush and was amazed how fast the POR goes on - I also used a hand-held 13w compact fluorescent drop light to fight shadows & catch the rust pit bubbles, missed or thin areas and to make sure the welds got saturated.

I decanted the quarts into smaller glass jars, used 'canned air' to flood the jars as I poured the paint in to keep air w/ humidity from mixing in and it worked perfectly, a couple of jars sat for 12 months with zero pressure build up from CO2 being released as paint cures.

About eight ounces at a time work well but even then the bottom of the jar had the paint turning into softened butter from dipping the brush so many times. The froth still painted and cured but it soon went 'click' and hardened. Especially important if your space is as humid as you mentioned - decant the paint outdoors and still use argon or canned air etc. Just a added little nuisance so after 10 hours of work your last pint hasn't hardened and leave you unfinished.

A mechanics creeper will help you discover muscles you've forgotten about. Bring a brown bag lunch or three.

If you get near the Metro I'd gift you with a pint of their solvent I have left over - I thinned their paint 2 or 3% and added a bit more when it started to thicken.
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Old 12-11-2013, 06:56 AM   #20
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Oh thank you kindly for sharing your POR 15 experiences. It is really helpful. I'm going to do more research before I start in. And I will make sure I have plenty of time for the second coat. I clearly now understand there is no deviation allowed in the time between the first and second coats. When it's skinned over, apply the second coat. I was going to do the second coat the next day. I'll bring the sack lunch instead. And I like the small jar technique. My idea of a paint tray for easy paint brush dipping and to help minimize the drips won't work with this stuff.

There is more to applying POR 15 than applying latex paint in the spare bedroom! Thanks for your help.

David
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:12 AM   #21
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I did learn that silver color POR 15 has more solids in it than the black stuff, and more than the clear stuff. I purchased silver as I will paint the rear bumper and A frame with the POR silver top coat. I thought staying with the same paint system would be best. No use in trying to cover black POR 15 with sterling silver.

The POR 15 directions say two coats about 2 mil thick about 5 hours apart. This comment is right after the instructions for thinning and spraying POR 15. Has anyone simply brush applied a single coat of POR 15?

David
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:22 AM   #22
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When my dad painted the frame last week, he did not thin it out, he simply poured it from the container into something else & brushed it on. It did wonderfully.
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Old 12-12-2013, 01:38 PM   #23
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No, thinning is not required except maybe for spraying but I found it handy to stretch the paint coverage by X%.

Letsee. The first coat solvents will pickup any/all contaminates, rust dust, weevils, spider webs but then may cover those 'aggregates' suspended in the paint with a molecular thin layer (that then promptly fails leaving a rust pit) and I've also noted the first coat gets softened a little by dissolving a thin layer of the OEM base coat and dilutes itself where it finds it, meaning a somewhat lessened bond. It's the second coat that does the heroic stuff as it bites into the top of the near-solid first coat and encapsulates everything beneath it.

I used the aluminum the second time I painted my 27' frame - and it seems to coat the thin sharp edges better than the black did, edges like all the sheet-thickness sides of the stringer and outrigger stampings that just love to bloom with iron oxide as the knife edges had the paint 'pull back' away as it dried..
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:48 PM   #24
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I wish I had bought a quart of black and a quart of silver instead of just silver. Others have said it makes the second coat easier to cover. Sounds like two coats is mandatory. I'll gain experience with it after I crack a can. I plan on using a foam brush, although I'm not sure it is an advantage. Cheap I guess. I imagine it is a viscous as the Metal Prep and will be dripping all over. I can see how it will be difficult to cover sharp corners.

Will POR 15 transfer to a plastic container okay? Or will it dissolve plastics? The wife says the canning jars are off limits.

POR 15 application day may be Sunday. I sure hope the mice under there like my POR 15 frame!

David
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Old 12-13-2013, 10:56 PM   #25
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Since you've volunteered for the floor on painting, another circle of purgatory to be experienced is high-pressure air to blast out as much of the fiberglass insulation that your drywall-knife razor blade missed as possible - if you soak the mat pressed between the frame and floor it will wick up tons of paint, weld the floor to the metal, and get fiberglass streaked throughout all the job.

A angled-tip 2" hair sash brush may be the least frustrating, remember all the serpentine, angled or jointed & stamped metal - get a couple, the heel of the brush will harden & crust up, I slightly damp wetted the brush with solvent to keep the filaments from wicking paint directly up. I'd forget about the foam brush, likely to melt and/or waste paint or time.

dbj - go buy your own mason jars. I used 'Planter's Peanuts Sunflower Seeds glass jars" cept they now come in plastic. Spaghetti sauce jars, gravy jars - mason jars... Paint should fill the jar without getting near the rim, once the lids/cap go on do not allow the paint to touch the seal area by tilting or jostling it - it is likely to weld the cap in place.

A power drill squirrel-cage attachment run in the can without drawing air down into the mixing turbulence can get the solids back in suspension but the aluminum is more likely to clump if the paint is not fresh - the last POR I applied was over two years old and had a large serum content since the aluminum had merrily glommed together. Mechanical shaking is not recommended, one of their minor solvents does not agree with friction heating - though I guess a 15-second shake at your local hardware store won't burst the can in the store, just on the drive home. If you do shake the can leave the shipping clips on it - that may be the only way the store will allow it in their machines.

On the sharp corners, a good-intention effort to double up a bead on the sharp edges like the outriggers that will have contact with aluminum is a good investment. Make sure you have all the belly pan rivets completely removed - the POR will weld the old rivets in place. Have an adult present to keep the bored kid painting from daubing it on any part not iron, the stuff is as bad as a can of sprayfoam held by a 4-beer redneck, always another spot that could use a little daub. Not.

Ah, yes... brings back memories...
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Old 12-14-2013, 07:05 PM   #26
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Thanks for the tip on the fiberglass insulation. I have exactly what you described stuck under the stringers and angle irons. I'll dig some more, and use my compressed air to blow the fuzz.

This POR 15 application is going to be interesting at best. At least I feel better prepared to get the job done.

David
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Old 12-14-2013, 11:56 PM   #27
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Really it's not a big deal. Just like painting about anything else. I think the main thing to remember is to not paint directly out of the can. I used a cup, and just kept filling as I went. Keep water, sweat, any other fluid out of the paint.

When your done, 90% will be covered up, and no one will see it. I used silver as well, worked pretty good.
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Old 12-15-2013, 05:36 AM   #28
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POR 15 is a very special paint chemistry. It is not like hardware store enamal. It requires metal prep, dry metal, the right humidity, and a second coat at just the right time over the first coat. It is very thin and a mess to apply. And it dries hard where no solvents will remove it. It will be especially difficult applyinig this stuff on my back under the Airstream. Long rubber gloves, face shield, respirator, fans, are needed. The Air Forums participants have helped me prepare for this job.

I need a little more time to finish up cleaning the frame. I think application day will be tomorrow or the next day. I'm applying it from ball to bumper. I will report on how it went when I'm done.

David
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