Help Needed Applying POR 15

[dbj216]

I did learn that silver color POR 15 has more solids in it than the black stuff, and more than the clear stuff. I purchased silver as I will paint the rear bumper and A frame with the POR silver top coat. I thought staying with the same paint system would be best. No use in trying to cover black POR 15 with sterling silver.

The POR 15 directions say two coats about 2 mil thick about 5 hours apart. This comment is right after the instructions for thinning and spraying POR 15. Has anyone simply brush applied a single coat of POR 15?

David

[lonewolf1977]

When my dad painted the frame last week, he did not thin it out, he simply poured it from the container into something else & brushed it on. It did wonderfully.

[Wabbiteer]

No, thinning is not required except maybe for spraying but I found it handy to stretch the paint coverage by X%.

Letsee. The first coat solvents will pickup any/all contaminates, rust dust, weevils, spider webs but then may cover those 'aggregates' suspended in the paint with a molecular thin layer (that then promptly fails leaving a rust pit) and I've also noted the first coat gets softened a little by dissolving a thin layer of the OEM base coat and dilutes itself where it finds it, meaning a somewhat lessened bond. It's the second coat that does the heroic stuff as it bites into the top of the near-solid first coat and encapsulates everything beneath it.

I used the aluminum the second time I painted my 27' frame - and it seems to coat the thin sharp edges better than the black did, edges like all the sheet-thickness sides of the stringer and outrigger stampings that just love to bloom with iron oxide as the knife edges had the paint 'pull back' away as it dried..

[dbj216]

I wish I had bought a quart of black and a quart of silver instead of just silver. Others have said it makes the second coat easier to cover. Sounds like two coats is mandatory. I'll gain experience with it after I crack a can. I plan on using a foam brush, although I'm not sure it is an advantage. Cheap I guess. I imagine it is a viscous as the Metal Prep and will be dripping all over. I can see how it will be difficult to cover sharp corners.

Will POR 15 transfer to a plastic container okay? Or will it dissolve plastics? The wife says the canning jars are off limits.

POR 15 application day may be Sunday. I sure hope the mice under there like my POR 15 frame!

David

[Wabbiteer]

Since you've volunteered for the floor on painting, another circle of purgatory to be experienced is high-pressure air to blast out as much of the fiberglass insulation that your drywall-knife razor blade missed as possible - if you soak the mat pressed between the frame and floor it will wick up tons of paint, weld the floor to the metal, and get fiberglass streaked throughout all the job.

A angled-tip 2" hair sash brush may be the least frustrating, remember all the serpentine, angled or jointed & stamped metal - get a couple, the heel of the brush will harden & crust up, I slightly damp wetted the brush with solvent to keep the filaments from wicking paint directly up. I'd forget about the foam brush, likely to melt and/or waste paint or time.

dbj - go buy your own mason jars. I used 'Planter's Peanuts Sunflower Seeds glass jars" cept they now come in plastic. Spaghetti sauce jars, gravy jars - mason jars... Paint should fill the jar without getting near the rim, once the lids/cap go on do not allow the paint to touch the seal area by tilting or jostling it - it is likely to weld the cap in place.

A power drill squirrel-cage attachment run in the can without drawing air down into the mixing turbulence can get the solids back in suspension but the aluminum is more likely to clump if the paint is not fresh - the last POR I applied was over two years old and had a large serum content since the aluminum had merrily glommed together. Mechanical shaking is not recommended, one of their minor solvents does not agree with friction heating - though I guess a 15-second shake at your local hardware store won't burst the can in the store, just on the drive home. If you do shake the can leave the shipping clips on it - that may be the only way the store will allow it in their machines.

On the sharp corners, a good-intention effort to double up a bead on the sharp edges like the outriggers that will have contact with aluminum is a good investment. Make sure you have all the belly pan rivets completely removed - the POR will weld the old rivets in place. Have an adult present to keep the bored kid painting from daubing it on any part not iron, the stuff is as bad as a can of sprayfoam held by a 4-beer redneck, always another spot that could use a little daub. Not.

Ah, yes... brings back memories...

[dbj216]

Thanks for the tip on the fiberglass insulation. I have exactly what you described stuck under the stringers and angle irons. I'll dig some more, and use my compressed air to blow the fuzz.

This POR 15 application is going to be interesting at best. At least I feel better prepared to get the job done.

David

[Silverflames]

Really it's not a big deal. Just like painting about anything else. I think the main thing to remember is to not paint directly out of the can. I used a cup, and just kept filling as I went. Keep water, sweat, any other fluid out of the paint.

When your done, 90% will be covered up, and no one will see it. I used silver as well, worked pretty good.

[dbj216]

POR 15 is a very special paint chemistry. It is not like hardware store enamal. It requires metal prep, dry metal, the right humidity, and a second coat at just the right time over the first coat. It is very thin and a mess to apply. And it dries hard where no solvents will remove it. It will be especially difficult applyinig this stuff on my back under the Airstream. Long rubber gloves, face shield, respirator, fans, are needed. The Air Forums participants have helped me prepare for this job.

I need a little more time to finish up cleaning the frame. I think application day will be tomorrow or the next day. I'm applying it from ball to bumper. I will report on how it went when I'm done.

David

[Wabbiteer]

Really it's not a big deal <--- AMEN.

The 3 P's apply, prior proper preparation. This stuff deserves respect, it can be a 50-plus year coating. From me stripping my frames first POR effort off and what I discovered, the next step up in comparison of places done correctly would be chrome plate. No lie, so its no big deal.

'in the end, the love you get is equal to the love you give'

I'm looking forward to dbj's commentary & any hint's and tips that arise...

[dbj216]

I applied my POR 15 today. What a job! I spent 7 hours on my creeper dabbing the stuff in nooks and crannies of the frame. I have a few observations.

I think the stuff is too demanding for an application when the shell is still on the frame. It is too difficult to get good coverage dabbing with a small brush overhead. The 2 to 5 hours between coats ties your hands. I gave up checking for the "slight finger grab". I had a hard time getting it on before it dried. The stuff is thin and runs and drips. It seems like it would be better sprayed. It would certainly cover better. And be 10x faster. And don't forget to store the stuff in glass jars.

I won't use it again unless I have the shell off and I have good access to the frame.

I picked silver POR 15 instead of black. Silver shows all the brush marks, runs and drips. I have one ugly frame. Hopefully it won't rust. I can't wait to get the belly pans back on to cover it up. I may have been better off with the black. The silver dries a sickly yellow hue. I hope the sterling silver top coat brightens the A frame, step and bumper.

I could have sprayed two coats of Rustoleum, primer and top coat, and been good enough.

What a mess POR 15 makes. My overalls and face shield are really spotted with silver. And so is my plastic drop cloth. And my creeper. And my rubber gloves. And my work boots. And the creeper tracked it all over the shop floor. I tied the gloves with rubber bands at my forearms to keep the stuff from dripping down to my elbows.

Not a fun day.

David

[desertair27]

It's a ton of work but I really believe it's a much better product than the rustoleum. Be happy you're done, I still have the back 10 feet of my frame to paint.

[perryg114]

Rustoleum is junk. I have painted stuff with it and it rusts worse than is was before it was painted.

Perry

[Wabbiteer]

...could have sprayed two coats of Rustoleum, primer and top coat, and been good enough.

dbj - now tell us what you really think! Ya know you've just increased the resale value by a fair chunk of change?

Rustoleum would be lucky to make three or five years in a dark airless place like the enclosed belly before it started bubbling and undercutting in places from perpetual humidity, and add in a little snow melt or black tank salts and it'd be game on. My OEM paint was part asphalt mixed with a cousin to creosote - okay until itself is oxidized away by age or needle pits let corrosion start - you've solved both of those problems, armored the frame similar to interstate bridge steel, someone in the future thanks you!

The yellow sheen likely is remnants of the OEM paint getting suspended in the POR carrier solvents, and as far as I can tell NOTHING short of shell off and a methodical bead-blasting with virgin media will prevent it from happening, there are just too many pits and pores of the metal filled with it.

A wire brush slings it off the old paint pretty well but inevitably leaves a thin film that even 2x or 3x wiping with aerosol solvent like carb cleaner won't chase clean. Been there & done that, wanted silver and got gold. Worse case is coating unbroken OEM paint the POR will flake off when the frame goes through the salvage yard shredder somewhen in the future - otherwise you've got it encapsulated for keeps. It's also noticeable when welding, the base paint relaxes and three to six inches of over-coated POR simply lifts away.

I sprayed my final frame paint session. The driveway is silver, the neighbors deck and storm windows metal-flaked, the silver tribal tatoos have faded with time, the premature silver hair left on the barbershop floor. Even after using five or six cans of B12 cleaner and terry cloth shop towel wiping I have some yellow tones.

Exit $50 for respirator, $20 for in-line desiccant cartridges, $20 for cheap HVLP spray gun and $20 for their thinner/solvent - took same amount of time, still had to spend hours on mechanics creeper. A $6 paintbrush is cheap in comparison, I got great satisfaction looking at the newly painted frame but would've had the same pride in a brush-painted one too.

Its a parallel waste of paint by being forced to recover large areas if the first pass doesn't hit everything right; sags, runs and drips just as easy and orange peal if you hit it again too early.

One day and two quarts and its painted - then the next half day creeping around with a pint or two and a brush to hit the places missed spraying. Those lightening holes in spars and outriggers are paint-wasters, can't spray those meandering beveled openings without 20-50% of paint joylessly flying past the metal or invoking sags & drips.

So you've polished your technique of sidearm painting, painting through neck cramps and fogged goggles & accommodated some rather kinky paint, and even posted semi-politely through a POR-15 hangover... Whatcha exciting and fun thing ya gonna do next?

[dbj216]

Okay Wabbiteer, you calmed me down some. I admit I was tired after 7 hours under that trailer.

Today, I feel better about it. The stuff is shinny and hard. And not as gold as it was when I left last night. Some of the brush marks have melted in as it cured. I'm convinced POR 15 does the job for rust prevention, it is just a rascal to apply overhead with a 1.5 inch brush on a 24' long frame. Yes, spraying the stuff would be messy too, but I just figured you had a complete paint booth!

I was fitting my new waste water tanks today and noticed some spots I missed! Hard to see through silver dripped shields and poor light conditions. So I guess I am 98.5% done.

I'm very happy it is DONE! And I will take photos and add it to the list of positive attributes for my Trade Wind along with the new furnace, water heater, fridge, bathroom, waste water tanks, axles, hitch, PEX, etc, etc. The downside are never ending leaks, and it is very OLD.

David

[Ganaraska]

When I store paint in glass jars I put 1 or 2 layers of wax paper on before screwing on the lid, then trim the excess wax paper from around the lid.

This makes a gasket or seal and if the paint sticks to the wax paper who cares? The top will still unscrew and you cut off the wax paper.

To mix paint, leave the can upside down overnight and it will mix itself. Even better, store the can upside down and turn it right side up overnight when you are ready to use it.

[dbj216]

POR 15 suggests you put a barrier between the container and lid to prevent the lid from gluing itself to the container. I used saran wrap. I also store upside down and flip the can before use. My silver POR 15 had a lot of solids that settled on the lid. I stirred by hand for a good ten minutes, but they eventually dispersed into the solution. Silver may have more suspended solids than black or clear.

This special handling is just another requirement to successful application of POR 15. Airstream Forums members were very helpful training me to use the stuff.

David