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05-25-2010, 05:38 AM
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#1
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3 Rivet Member
1974 31' Sovereign
rozenburg
, netherlands
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 124
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Frame rotten
Help, my frame is rotten. It is worse than i expected. I removed te banana wraps and bellypan to inspect the frame.
Today i got a welder over here and he said that it wasn't an easy job, and it could be worse than we can see at this moment.
He said he could replace the whole frame, and that that would be much better.
But how can i remove the sell including the floor? Is that possible?
I don't like the idea , but he convinced me that it would be better.
This is my blog , unfortunately in dutch.
De Mazzel!
Ok time for some pics.
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05-25-2010, 05:52 AM
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#2
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Retired.
Currently Looking...
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, At Large
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,276
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Our '74 also had similar issues. I replaced the frame and several outriggers on the left front of ours, and more could be done. I used 5 inch box channel rather than the 5 inch C channel the trailer came with. It was a big job, but I got it done in a couple of weekends. Oh, ours was probably worse, the frame broke in half in the middle of the Mojave desert...
__________________
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
Terry
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05-25-2010, 06:04 AM
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#3
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Restorations done right
Commercial Member
1962 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Vintage Kin Owner
Currently Looking...
Baltimore
, Maryland
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,545
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not trying to break the rules here Moderators....
I would suggest you look at my blog below in my tag line. The one with my name in it. I am working on a 1973 Safari and the before pictures looked very similar to yours. Almost all the outriggers were rotten beyond repair, a cross member had to be replaced and many bad areas cut out of the frame and replaced with new metal. I love to weld so for me it was a true pleasure to do the repairs needed for my client. Being in the EU I can only imagine what the union welders cost.
The early 70's trailer have a number of design issues that allow water to easily get in.
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05-25-2010, 03:51 PM
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#4
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3 Rivet Member
1974 31' Sovereign
rozenburg
, netherlands
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 124
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Thanks. Looks like i will have to do a hell of a job But as we say: if you say A you have to say B.
I got some information about the new iron i need for the chassis, and those prices seem to be ok. But removing the shell.
I would like to laeve the floor inside the shell for strength and just remove the frame.
But what have to be disconnected?
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05-25-2010, 05:21 PM
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#5
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3 Rivet Member
1978 31' Sovereign
Madison
, Mississippi
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 120
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Is the floor not rotted?
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05-25-2010, 08:26 PM
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#6
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Site Team
1974 31' Sovereign
Ottawa
, ON
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 11,219
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I agree: hard to imagine that much frame rot without the matching amount of floor rot...
You're just having pre-full monte jitters. Once you accept that the floor and frame need done, you will start planning how you will make the bones of your trailer brand new.
__________________
“Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway.” ...John Wayne...........................
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05-26-2010, 01:29 AM
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#7
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3 Rivet Member
1974 31' Sovereign
rozenburg
, netherlands
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 124
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The floor need some new parts as well, but that is almost done now. My idea is when i have the floor done i can raise the shell including the floor, because of strength, and then i can leave the insidewall on the shell and dont have to reinforce it. But i don't know if that's possible?
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05-27-2010, 04:59 AM
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#8
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3 Rivet Member
1974 31' Sovereign
rozenburg
, netherlands
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 124
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Today i made an important decision. The frame is gonna be renewed and the shell is lifted. That means a whole lot of work but i decided to do it the wright way. Otherwise i will always have a feeling i didn't did it well.
Today i have taken a look how to..
So to be continued.
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05-27-2010, 05:17 AM
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#9
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Restorations done right
Commercial Member
1962 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Vintage Kin Owner
Currently Looking...
Baltimore
, Maryland
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,545
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the issue you will have with lifting the plywood with the shell is the way the floor was constructed. Under each seam in the floor is a rip of plywood that is screwed to the frame. This rip bridges the gap and strengthens the seam. I hope that makes sense. Door you have an indoor work place? If so you can easily lift the shell buy dropping a block and tackle though the center hatch and lifting straight up. Minimal cross bracing is required this way. just cut all the rivets around the belt line and lift it straight up.
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05-27-2010, 06:11 AM
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#10
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3 Rivet Member
1974 31' Sovereign
rozenburg
, netherlands
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 124
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Unfortunately i don't have the possibility to work inside.
So leaving the floor in is not that easy as i thought
So the floor has to go too. I am thinking about removing the lower inside panels and then cutting the bolts that hold the shell to the frame. Then reinforce the shell, removing the old floor, making a new floor(loose) and then lift the shell.
So the new floor can be mounted on the new frame and then the shell on again.
Sounds easy
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05-27-2010, 06:19 AM
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#11
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Restorations done right
Commercial Member
1962 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Vintage Kin Owner
Currently Looking...
Baltimore
, Maryland
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,545
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You won't be able to lift the shell with the channel still attached. The channel actually wraps around the floor. The front and back channel just sit on the floor, but the sides wraps around the floor. There is also a tall steel plate in the front and a shorter one in the back that connect the shell to the frame. You will most likely find a great deal of corrosion between those plates. The bumper hatch plate was almost totally gone....
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05-27-2010, 04:03 PM
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#12
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3 Rivet Member
1974 31' Sovereign
rozenburg
, netherlands
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 124
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So what will be the wright order to do?
I am starting tomorrow in emptying the interior so i have things to do for a while.
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05-27-2010, 06:34 PM
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#13
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Retired.
Currently Looking...
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, At Large
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qc1500
So what will be the wright order to do?
I am starting tomorrow in emptying the interior so i have things to do for a while.
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Take lots of pictures of everything you do, and where everything is. That way you'll know where it all goes when it's time to put it back together.
Airstream built these trailers starting at the rear, and installing everything going to the front. So, start at the front, and work back. Start with the front couch, then the credenza, dining room table, kitchen counter and cabinetry, water pump and furnace, then the divider, fridge, pantry, oven, divider, beds, underbed storage, dividers, closets, water heater surround, toilet, converter, bathtub, bathroom sink. The other little odds and ends should be obvious.
After you get all that out, you will need to drill out the rivets along the base of the walls, lift the walls from the bottom, and remove the screws that attach the floor channel to the floor. After that, you will need to remove the belly pan wraps, the banana wraps, the belly pan and LP lines. Then, go back in and remove the bolts that go from the outriggers to the bows, which go through the floor channel. There will be 4 bolts and nuts, two on each end of the trailer, that will need to be removed, one from each corner. You'll then be pretty much ready to lift the trailer, support the shell, and lower the frame and floor.
__________________
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
Terry
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05-27-2010, 08:41 PM
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#14
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Site Team
1974 31' Sovereign
Ottawa
, ON
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 11,219
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This IS a ton of work, but if you were ever considering doing work on the major plumbing system, such as increasing the black and grey tank sizes, you will never again have as good an opportunity to do so.
Ditto if you want to change the fresh-water plumbing from the original copper to PEX.
If you have not yet changed out the AC to DC converter (Univolt) do it now also. It is nearly impossible to do with the closet and bathroom in place if you have the mid-twin bed layout. It would also be much simpler to repair any rear-bath area wiring for the lighting, which appears to be a frequent complaint in that year and model.
Then too, it will also be the easiest time to make any furniture changes you may have been contemplating, such as putting in a new kitchen setup. Most '74s have no obvious spot to put a microwave, for example. It might be fun to put in something like the following, if you have the time and money.
__________________
“Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway.” ...John Wayne...........................
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05-28-2010, 03:19 AM
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#15
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3 Rivet Member
1974 31' Sovereign
rozenburg
, netherlands
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 124
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Wooooh that is looking amazing! I decided to go on, it looks like a lot of fun, anger, fear..... But this forum is great and when i finally done it, i will be in heaven
Our Airstream is a double rear bed model. The bathroom will be changed and the tank for the toilet will be removed, and another toilet will be placed.
Because in Europe it is not that easy to empty the original one.
The kitchen area will be updated as well, a new fridge. And a double bed. Maybe the front seating area will be changed as well. But i want to keep original features as well.
It will be a great challenge but i am preparing for it. Got a couple cases of beer so when i don't get trough.....
Let the fun begin.
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05-28-2010, 04:22 AM
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#16
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Restorations done right
Commercial Member
1962 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Vintage Kin Owner
Currently Looking...
Baltimore
, Maryland
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,545
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The order Terry gave is kind of right. The side channel wraps the floor. You will need to cut the belly line rivets and lift the shell leaving the channel in place. Skip the remove screws part till the shell is off, for half of them will be a bugger to get out and the extra clearance will make it much easier.
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05-28-2010, 05:19 AM
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#17
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3 Rivet Member
1974 31' Sovereign
rozenburg
, netherlands
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 124
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Ok, in a few weeks i have my summerholidays and want to do a lot. Till then i only have a few hours a day.
Today i started to remove the interior. Made pictures and numbered screws in bags.
Everything in front is empty, and removed the fridge and the cabinet left to it. And what a mess..
Tomorrow another part. Thanks for your info guys, it's helping me a lot
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05-28-2010, 05:42 AM
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#18
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Retired.
Currently Looking...
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, At Large
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 21,276
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After you get everything out, and the shell off the floor, lay fresh plywood on top of the original, before you remove it, crawl under the frame and floor assembly with a pencil, and trace the floor onto the new plywood. Every cut and hole is there for a reason, unless it is rotted, and it's a lot easier to have all the stuff put directly onto the new wood. Number the new plywood, starting with "1" being the front, and an arrow on each one pointing forward, on the top of the plywood.
__________________
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
Terry
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05-28-2010, 01:10 PM
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#19
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3 Rivet Member
1977 31' Sovereign
Severna Park
, Maryland
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aage
I agree: hard to imagine that much frame rot without the matching amount of floor rot...
You're just having pre-full monte jitters. Once you accept that the floor and frame need done, you will start planning how you will make the bones of your trailer brand new.
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I love that phase "pre-full-monte jitters"...I have had that about six times so far and I'm only about 25% through the monte. Each time it sets in after the discovery of some unanticipated phase of the restoration. Generally I spend a day or night searching the forum educating myself on the particular aspect of the work and soaking up encouragement from the members. It takes about a day to recover then I dive back in with renewed enthusiasm! All the while knowing that will be an awesome thing when done.
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05-29-2010, 05:18 AM
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#20
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3 Rivet Member
1974 31' Sovereign
rozenburg
, netherlands
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 124
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I know the feeling, every time it is great to get something done, sometimes my wife stays at a safe distance till the job is done
Today about an hour of time. I dismanteld the wardrobe closet. The pipeline that goes to the roof is gone as well. Why is this thing so long? Couldn't it go straight up?
Another thing i am wondering myself, is what is that waterline that comes out of the floor and goes to the backside of the trailer?
In the meantime the trailer looks like there has been an explosion First i have to look for some space to store the parts, the garage is allready filled
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