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NY_Chairs · 06-22-2009, 04:51 PM

Shari,

I like the method of cutting around the perimeter to get the bolts out without dropping the belly pans, but I was wondering how you got the bolts back in since you would be laying a full sheet of 4' plywood back in its place...

putback · 06-22-2009, 07:33 PM

If anyone knows the answer to that they ain't sayin! You break or cut the bolts 'cause the heads are round and recessed and the bolt tails are intentionally bent.. The whole rusted bolt/nut spins when you try to unfasten. Befor or after the new floor is in place the belly pan comes down or you only use about 1/3 the nessisary bolts. To make it more difficult the axle interfears with lowering the belly. You either remove the X, or slit and patch the belly pan. Good news is you may as well pull the X, probably gonna need a new one anyway, and you're never gonna be closer! Odd I never had these issues with a tent and a pack!!

VIKING · 06-22-2009, 07:51 PM

Some folks have used screws from above the floor, going down into the frame members. I don't think it is strong enough to do that alone. I will definitely be installing new elevator bolts in the same configuration as the originals on my safari.
I have taken a different tack on the order of things from most here, I believe. I removed my floor and fixed/ painted the frame from above then put down new plywood flooring. I then screwed down through the C channel into the plywood to hold everything together and aligned. The next step will be to drop the bellypan, install new elevator bolts, then insulate with 3" rigid foam sheets glued to the underside of the plywood flooring. The bottom of the frame will get rust treatment and paint, like the rest already has. Then reinstallation of the bellypan.
Somewhere in there I will be fitting a new gray tank, just aft of the axle.
I could have done it another way, but this is working out fine. I've had the shell and bellypan intact through the winter, and It made it easier to coax myself out to work on it when I could stay warm and dry doing it. Also, I have chickens, and they would have loved to move into my safari if given half a chance.

This is a white cochin. Weighs about ten pounds- Chickenzilla!

Rich

InsideOut · 06-22-2009, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NY_Chairs

Shari,

I like the method of cutting around the perimeter to get the bolts out without dropping the belly pans, but I was wondering how you got the bolts back in since you would be laying a full sheet of 4' plywood back in its place...

We used a combination of Floor Repair Screws & Floor Repair Bolts (elevator bolts) from Vintage Trailer Supply. Where we could get to the open end of the c-channel, we used elevator bolts - where we couldn't we used the screws. We ended up with elevator bolts on all the plywood edges at the joints and screws at the mid-span of each sheet. Along the perimeter, we used the VTS screws when over an outrigger and smaller screws in between. We spaced both the bolts & screws closer together o/c than the original elevator bolts - the floor is very sturdy.

Elevator bolts & self tapping screws

Shari

putback · 06-25-2009, 07:24 PM

Hey Viking, I did similar progression on floor as you. Same reason, working outside in winter. Have a tank idea for you to mull over, we both have the same rig and limitations. I've done 2 early '60s non A.S. renos. Both have original black tanks above the floor that work well. What problems can you forsee if I use the original black tank for gray water and add a shallow black tank above floor & under the toilet? Makes plumbing and discharge a cinch at the original outlet point. Guessing an extra 125 lbs on the tail if I have to travel full? What-da-ya think?? Ill bet our ancestors kept chickens in there wagons when they traveled too!!!

VIKING · 06-26-2009, 09:57 AM

Putback,
I'm okay with that idea, except for the weight issue. When you see what's holding the rear shell to the frame it makes you want to cry. There are only 2 bolts and some rivets holding all of it together. I removed my bumper-mounted spare tire for this very reason.
I am thinking of adding a grey tank into the frame bay just aft of the axle. Inca plastics makes one that is about a perfect fit for this and you can do all of the installation from below, so no need to tear up the floor. I could then use the black tank as-is and just re-route the shower and sink drains to the new location, which would drop through the floor just underneath the furnace. The loss here is the furnace duct that runs under the floor here, but I'm losing the furnace and will replace with something different anyway. I have info on the tank if you want to explore this idea further.
I don't know if my black tank is original or not, but the metal box around it was definitely an add-on. It's made of aluminum diamondplate.
Rich

silverleeper · 06-27-2009, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VIKING

I don't know if my black tank is original or not, but the metal box around it was definitely an add-on. It's made of aluminum diamondplate.
Rich

The black tank is original. The old box probably rusted out. Looks like the replacement box is nicely done.

putback · 06-27-2009, 06:08 PM

Viking, I'm supprised the rear bolt down design made it over the 1st pothole '64! Two 1/4" bolts into a 3/16 x 1" piece of flatstock thats welded between the frame rails. I may find out I screwed up but I welded L brackets inside the frame rail & under the flatstock to get a solid anchor point for the rear shell/floor. Caught a break on the spare tire, mine has the front mount, 50#s less on the tail. I'd take the offer on graytank onfo. Will you route your gray tank drain pipe through the xmembers or under the bellypan? I'm wondering about slope?

VIKING · 06-29-2009, 11:19 AM

Inca Plastics Inc. - 40 gal

Putback, check this out. I found this through Uwe at the vintage restoration rally in New Mexico. It will fit perfectly in the existing bay behind the axle. The outlet will be on the street side, about 12" behind the wheel, facing towards the rear. It will hang below the skin 4" on the drain side and be flush on the opposite side. Slope is built-in, so no worries there.
My spare tire will probably end up in front also. I think you did the right thing with your frame reinforcement. I'm looking into that next...
Rich

MRodriguez · 09-29-2009, 09:34 PM

I am about at the same place as you are - i've removed the bad section and am about to put the new flooring back in. I have a question - the back section has a metal plate between the skin and the flooring. Since all the bad flooring just fell apart - i dont know if the flooring goes under the metal plate or above it.. does any one know what i'm talking about.

VIKING · 09-30-2009, 10:16 AM

Hi mrod, Welcome to the forum!
Is it possible to post a picture of your metal plate? I don't think it's the same as ours on the '64s.
It's a good idea to read through the FAQs for advice on how and where to post in the forum to get the best replies for your questions. And pictures are really helpful if you can include them. I started by posting in the new members introduction section, which a lot of people look at, and progressed from there. Rest assured, you will find the answers you need here. It's a great forum.
Have a nice day!
Rich the Viking

putback · 09-30-2009, 01:53 PM

I'm with Viking, not shure on your year. From a '64 standpoint there is a metal strap aprox 1/4 inch thick X 1 1/4 wide by 50 something inches long that is/was welded between the main frame rails. Its welded to the top inside edge of the frame rails directly under the rear C-chanel. The plywood goes on top of said strap. Hold down bolts go down through the C-chanel > plywood > said strap. The welds were broken on both ends of mine so the strap just fell out with the floor! I Welded in L brackets inside the frame chanel extending out under the strap to insure a good tie in. While you're in there take a look at the area outside your frame rails rearward of the last outriggers. On mine there was no original floor support/holddown in that area so I welded in a short L bracket on each side just to beef it up. I noticed there are NO bolt holes in the 2 main frame rails, only in X members & outriggers, probably for good reason, thus I used welds only on the rails.

VIKING · 09-30-2009, 03:21 PM

I added metal "L" channels to the back corner areas on mine that run from the last full-sized outrigger to the main frame rails. They sit under the flooring, below the "C" channel, and follow the curve of the "C" channel. I did this because the original construction only has wood screws going down through the "C" channel into the plywood, which was GONE. I was able to drill holes down through the whole sandwich and bolt it all together. I also drilled the main frame rails for bolts at the back. I can't imagine why this wasn't done at the factory. There's no way that this junction was meant to flex, as flexing would mean "rearend seperation". IMHO it was severely under-engineered, and now is solid as a rock. The ~12' of "C" channel that goes around the rearend had two 1/4" bolts, and about six wood screws holding it down. That's all! I would bet that EVERY '64 that hasn't been restored has hidden or obvious rearend seperation. It was built-in at the factory!

Rich the Viking

Silverwanabe · 09-30-2009, 07:35 PM

And folks talk about the low quality on the new units.......

What years have high quality????

worldinchaos · 05-02-2011, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by putback

Off topic, while you guys are deep in the walls are you leaving any messages for the next fool!!!!! I used yellow tire chauk and wrote. "If you've come this far you're as big a fool as I was in 2009, I however used stainless hex head screws & washers. You're welcome. but your still as big a fool as I was"!!! { arrow down to c-chanel} Hey you never know...

Wow, i know this is an old thread but this is the first time out of all my hours of perusing the forums that I have seen this incredibly great idea mentioned.

I will absolutely die of laughter if I found that in a few weeks when I pull down the interior skins. I am definitely going to be putting writing in there. Maybe a few random jokes or comments on "current" events for potential future renovators to reminisce on. "Can you believe that this skin was replaced back when Osama Bin Laden was killed?" or "This insulation was installed when the USA only had 50 states"...etc.