Frame Failure - 22 foot International

[dongubrud]

Originally Posted by zedex

I will fab and weld in my own stiffeners. What i think is happening is the outriggers are creating undo stress cracks on the frame. Thats why the cracks are running horizontal. The stress cracks weaken the frame where it should flex normally. If you fab plates that distribute the stresses on the frame ,the frame will flex like it should but not crack. I will use my rig as an experiment. Its all i can do really as i doubt very much Airstream will accomodate me being from Canada.
Stress cracks are not a rare thing in frames. Alot of trailers have stress cracks.
In fact a 30 ft arctic fox came into my shop. My business partner had to rescue it from the side of the road.These folks were just leaving on a trip when this happened. One of the rear axles broke away from the frame and rotated and bound up into the other axle.The axle had to be strapped with tie downs to be towed to the shop.
What had happened is the rear axle spring hanger was welded across the bottom web of the frame. That weld created a weakness in the frame and the axle hanger actually tore the bottom of the frame off right at the welds. In the welding business you see all sorts of things that most people have no idea about.
Obviously there are a **** load of airsteams out there that have frame cracks. How does one communicate with these people that have no idea what is going on under their feet? No idea. Sure as hell Airstream will not divulge this info.
Colin

I am pretty sure Airstream will send you there replacement outriggers free of charge. These replacement ones are larger and extend down to the bottom of the frame. When you weld them on do not do any vertical welding. Weld across the top and just tack at the bottom. Now why did your outriggers cause the frame to crack? Because your frame bent behind the rear axle! You must straighten out the frame and beef it up. This is a difficult job with the body setting on the frame, but to take the body off is one major job.
What is the first thing to fail on our model Airstream? The water pump? A light bulb? Maybe something with one of the electric brakes? No, the frame silly.

[zedex]

Actually. The lightbulb in the bedroom did fail. The other one is still good though.
Don? Are you still in contact with Airstream about your frame failures?

[Airstray]

My serial # and DOM: 515320--Jan. 2003 Does anyone know how we can list all our serial numbers on one post? The Attorney General in WA. state says, online, used cars sold "as is" with no warranty are still covered by what is called an "implied warranty". This supersedes any other statement, written or oral. I will call the AG tomorrow and see if non motorized vehicles are covered. Airstray

[Airstray]

Dealer Guidelines > Implied Warranty

Implied Warranty
Under state law RCW 62A.2-314, every used car sold by a dealer in Washington for a customer’s personal use has an "implied warranty of merchantability.” This means that the dealer promises the used car will be fit for ordinary driving purposes, reasonably safe, without major defects, and of the average quality of similar cars available for sale in the same price range. A car can only be sold without the implied warranty if the customer knowingly agreed to waive the warranty and was provided with a statement of the particular characteristics or parts of the car that aren’t covered.
Absent the required disclosures and your customer’s explicit consent, an “as is” sticker in the window of a car or a signed waiver is not sufficient to waive the implied warranty. The implied warranty can’t be waived under any circumstance if a written warranty is offered with the car or the customer purchases an extended service warranty from the dealer within 90 days of buying a used car.

Whatever the status of warranty, dealers shouldn’t sell cars that, due to defective or missing safety equipment, aren’t legal to drive on public roads. Here are some general guidelines for meeting your obligations under state law:

• Washington consumers have a right to trust that any purchased vehicle will be reasonably safe, efficient and comfortable.
• If a customer has major problems with the vehicle, then the dealer may be obligated to meet the customer’s request for repairs or repayment of the purchase price.
• Courts have ruled that the implied warranty is legally waived only if both of the following conditions are met:

1. The consumer explicitly negotiates and agrees to the fact that the car does not have an implied warranty, and
2. The dealer gives the consumer a statement of the particular characteristics or parts of the car which are not being warranted.

• A general discussion of vehicle size, style, model, color, power, extra equipment and price is not a specific discussion or explicit negotiation of a waiver of the implied warranty of merchantability.
• The use of an “As Is” sticker does not circumvent the Implied Warranty of Merchantability rules.
• A signed, pre-printed form may not be evidence of explicit negotiation.
• A clause waiving the warranty in a preprinted sales agreement is not evidence of explicit negotiation.
• The burden is on the dealer to prove evidence of an effective disclaimer or waiver of a warranty.
• If a customer buys an extended service warranty contract within 90 days of buying the used car, the implied warranty of merchantability cannot be waived under any circumstances – even if previously negotiated.

Used cars also have another implied warranty under state law RCW 62A.2-315, called Warranty of Fitness for a Particular Purpose. This provides that when the seller knows the vehicle is going to be used for a particular purpose, such as racing or towing a trailer, and the buyer is relying on the seller’s expertise to provide a suitable vehicle, a warranty is created that the item will actually be fit for that purpose.I don't know yet if there is a "statue of limitations" on this, but will inquire.

[Airstray]

1999-2004 HOLIDAY RAMBLER ALUMASCAPESTRUCTURE:FRAME AND MEMBERS
Units affected: 3439MONACO COACH CORPORATION
Report Date: 2004-10-05Summary: ON CERTAIN FIFTH WHEEL TRAILERS, A DEFICIENCY IN THE STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY OF THE MAIN FRAME RAILS COULD CAUSE THE RAILS TO CRACK AND AXLES COULD SHIFT, CAUSING THE FIFTH WHEEL TO PULL ERRATICALLY.Airstream should be ashamed. Airstray

[dongubrud]

Originally Posted by Airstray

1999-2004 HOLIDAY RAMBLER ALUMASCAPESTRUCTURE:FRAME AND MEMBERS
Units affected: 3439MONACO COACH CORPORATION
Report Date: 2004-10-05Summary: ON CERTAIN FIFTH WHEEL TRAILERS, A DEFICIENCY IN THE STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY OF THE MAIN FRAME RAILS COULD CAUSE THE RAILS TO CRACK AND AXLES COULD SHIFT, CAUSING THE FIFTH WHEEL TO PULL ERRATICALLY.Airstream should be ashamed. Airstray

Yes Airstream should be ashamed.
My thinking is this;
We live in a capitalistic structure and bottom line is profit. With material, such as our trailers, it comes down to sales. Now they already have your money for the RV you have, when comes time to buy another RV, what brand will you probably buy? Another Airstream! There is no ''bottom line'' motivation for them to spend their profit money on our frame problem. Notice i said ''our problem''.

[dongubrud]

Originally Posted by zedex

Actually. The lightbulb in the bedroom did fail. The other one is still good though.
Don? Are you still in contact with Airstream about your frame failures?

The simple answer is no. The last contact I had was maybe a year ago when I asked them if they would weld on a channel to the frame if I brought my RV to them. This is a factory supplied channel. They told me that my unit is out of warranty, so they will but at their standard labor rate.

[clancy_boy]

This continuing saga of frame failure/destroyed floors (connected issue - I would say so) is a sad thing to read. Having lived through this ordeal and delt with AS directly (costly) I would say they have little if any incentive to assist or help out the current owners. I do see that some late model (2007 and newer) trailers have been repaired under "warrenty" but this has not been passed on to the rest of us. It's a hit or miss repair warrenty where they apply it to the owner of random fortune. Sad for an American icon like AS, my Toyota 4x4 was recalled 11 years after purchased and had $2800 in refit and repairs done for free.

[Ag&Au]

Originally Posted by clancy_boy

This continuing saga of frame failure/destroyed floors (connected issue - I would say so) is a sad thing to read. Having lived through this ordeal and delt with AS directly (costly) I would say they have little if any incentive to assist or help out the current owners. I do see that some late model (2007 and newer) trailers have been repaired under "warrenty" but this has not been passed on to the rest of us. It's a hit or miss repair warrenty where they apply it to the owner of random fortune. Sad for an American icon like AS, my Toyota 4x4 was recalled 11 years after purchased and had $2800 in refit and repairs done for free.

Have any of you contacted the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration to report this a a safety issue? It certainly seems to be one.

Ken

[HowieE]

Question to the Modes.

Is there a way to search the membership list by year and model of Airstream owned?

If so someone should start to compile a list and contact those possible effected.

Some owners may not even know they are at risk yet based on age or limited use to date.

[zedex]

There should be a sticky on every forum . But even so that would be a miniscule %age of people owning ccd,s with faulty frames. I am hoping "airstray" comes back with something we can use legally.
On a side note i contacted "airstream" today. I talked to a guy in customer service about the cracks in my 04 22' ccd. He acted all surprised like..... "where are these cracks on your trailer"? No word of a lie i just smiled to myself, "well. These cracks are on the curb side under all the outriggers" The guy..."really" "Can you send photos and the model # of your trailer and we will see what we can do"
I am sure he just looked over at his associate and pointed to his phone while i was telling him where the cracks were. As if to say.. "We got another one"

[VIKING]

Originally Posted by HowieE

Question to the Modes.

Is there a way to search the membership list by year and model of Airstream owned?

If so someone should start to compile a list and contact those possible effected.

Some owners may not even know they are at risk yet based on age or limited use to date.

Airstream Forums - Members List

Member list- search members- advanced search-
enter 1st trailer information and scroll down to the search button.
There are 29 members with 2004 22' intl ccd's, but some may be duplicates or out of date.

Rich the Viking

[HowieE]

Originally Posted by VIKING

Airstream Forums - Members List

Member list- search members- advanced search-
enter 1st trailer information and scroll down to the search button.
There are 29 members with 2004 22' intl ccd's, but some may be duplicates or out of date.

Rich the Viking

Nice work. How many years are involved with the frame failure?

[clancy_boy]

Originally Posted by zedex

There should be a sticky on every forum . But even so that would be a miniscule %age of people owning ccd,s with faulty frames. I am hoping "airstray" comes back with something we can use legally.
On a side note i contacted "airstream" today. I talked to a guy in customer service about the cracks in my 04 22' ccd. He acted all surprised like..... "where are these cracks on your trailer"? No word of a lie i just smiled to myself, "well. These cracks are on the curb side under all the outriggers" The guy..."really" "Can you send photos and the model # of your trailer and we will see what we can do"
I am sure he just looked over at his associate and pointed to his phone while i was telling him where the cracks were. As if to say.. "We got another one"

PM me for phone number exchange if you want - you have no idea how true your thoughts are in your post. Been there, done that, paid dearly.....

[dongubrud]

Originally Posted by clancy_boy

PM me for phone number exchange if you want - you have no idea how true your thoughts are in your post. Been there, done that, paid dearly.....

We all should be a little carefull what we say on this forum. Big daddy probably reads these. In fact I'm very sure one of the middle managers there does indeed read these. I can't name names however. Perhaps we should set-up an E-mail chat group.

[Airstray]

Ph. #

Originally Posted by w7ts

Have any of you contacted the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration to report this a a safety issue? It certainly seems to be one.

Ken

I just got off the phone with NHTSA and filed a complaint. Everyone involved needs to file a complaint. Please. Airstray 1-888-327-4236

[Airstray]

Originally Posted by DON GUBRUD

We all should be a little carefull what we say on this forum. Big daddy probably reads these. In fact I'm very sure one of the middle managers there does indeed read these. I can't name names however. Perhaps we should set-up an E-mail chat group.

Don, I agree. How do you want to do this? I'm not to computer savy. Airstray

[newroswell]

If Airstream is reading this, all the better. It's better if the 22' owners are very clear with them they intend to pursue NHTSA complaints and a class action filing if that's the plan. I can't see how a sneak attack makes the owners case any stronger.

I would encourage everyone with an issue to document it here with pictures. Contact Airstream, when they act surprised and say they've never heard of this issue, send them the link. I would go so far as to post the name of who you speak with, so the same guy can't keep saying he's never heard of the problem.

Publicly holding their foot to the fire will be more effective.

[Airstray]

Originally Posted by VIKING

Airstream Forums - Members List

Member list- search members- advanced search-
enter 1st trailer information and scroll down to the search button.
There are 29 members with 2004 22' intl ccd's, but some may be duplicates or out of date.

Rich the Viking

I checked and there are about 50 '03 owners on the members list. Who knows how many are out there.

[Airstray]

The dealer where I purchased my CCD said it would cost $3000.00 to repair the frame. They are trying to work with us and offered to split the cost but that's money we shouldn't have to shell out. Airstream should take responsible. The WA. Attorney General says an 'implied warranty" does not pertain to "non motorized" vehicles but I'm still researching the subject. I've contacted a few attorneys but was told "we don't handle such cases". I don't know what category our problem falls under, legal wise. Any help appreciated.