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Old 10-19-2010, 07:59 AM   #85
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2004 22' International CCD
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I am talking about patches welded to the frame covering a crack. Outriggers should not be welded 100%. They should be stitched. Plus outriggers generally dont span the full 4 inches of the frame.
I built trailer frames when i was younger and the general rule with frames,any frames. Do not weld vertically.
Welding is my business so lets just say i know a few things about frame repair.
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Old 10-19-2010, 08:43 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by TankerIP View Post
I have an '02 22' International A/S - a different model than the CCD but the same frame. We have no belly pan so I can see the frame easily. So far not problem. I did buy at a good price, but later had floor rot that cost over $4K to repair and replace. Still - we are very happy to have this trailer. I do not know how different the weight distribution is on the A/S versus the CCD version that might affect frame performance

However, I now am very careful of the frame. I inspect when I can. I keep the holding tanks empty always when moving. I try to never load up the rear end in any way. I always put down my support jacks in the rear when parked, etc., etc.

Bottom line: Depending on how good your deal is, I would take it. You could ask someone how much frame repair will cost, when and if you need, then factor that in on the price you pay.




Nevertheless, do inspect carefully. Frame and floor integrity around the edges are especially important. Make sure yours has the frame stiffener done by the recall they had several years ago.
Never travel with any fluid in the rear tanks of any '22 CCD. And I wouldn't store anything inside rear either. Also I would not put any ''bumper stickers'' on your bumper!
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Old 10-19-2010, 09:02 AM   #87
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Regarding what I am thinking might be a good deal on this unused 22' 2004 International CCD . . .

I've looked online and haven't found any like this for sale. Found many of the same year or close to it in other models in similar lengths. Then I compared some NADA pricing to asking prices. It's shocking. NADA is usually about half of the asking prices.

So how do I determine if something is the right price?
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Old 10-19-2010, 01:42 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zedex View Post
I am talking about patches welded to the frame covering a crack. Outriggers should not be welded 100%. They should be stitched. Plus outriggers generally dont span the full 4 inches of the frame.
I built trailer frames when i was younger and the general rule with frames,any frames. Do not weld vertically.
Welding is my business so lets just say i know a few things about frame repair.
How do you suggest cross members be welded to the frame?

Andy
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Old 10-19-2010, 05:03 PM   #89
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Correct Price

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimelmoreiii View Post
Regarding what I am thinking might be a good deal on this unused 22' 2004 International CCD . . .

I've looked online and haven't found any like this for sale. Found many of the same year or close to it in other models in similar lengths. Then I compared some NADA pricing to asking prices. It's shocking. NADA is usually about half of the asking prices.

So how do I determine if something is the right price?

The correct price is "in the eyes of the beholder" RV 2004 AIRSTREAM M-22 CCD prices, specs and options at NADAguides.com These guys seem to be way understated. It says retail is $40K (new), retail now about $15K. If you can get it for that, I would say you are doing real good. Look around on the internet for dealers, etc who are selling 22' trailers and make a comparison to decide what you are willing to spend. Good Luck!!!!
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Old 10-19-2010, 07:14 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
How do you suggest cross members be welded to the frame?

Andy
Crossmembers welded 100% on the top and stitched at the bottom . If the crossmember is the same height as the frame then its welded 100% top and bottom. A small stitch in the center. Depending on how the frame is designed you weld accordingly. Not all rules apply.
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Old 10-19-2010, 07:14 PM   #91
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I have read through this thread and have a question. What is the location of the failing out riggers?

If the frame is cracking aft of the rear axle that would put additional load on the outriggers forward of that point and those are the outriggers that I would expect to fail.

As far as welding vertically on the frame. The outriggers have 2 failure considerations just as any cantilevered beam. Shear and bending. Bending on a cantilevered beam is minimal close to the fixed point, and not generally a consideration. Shear can be better controlled with a tab welded to across the top of the frame as that is the point of greatest load on the outrigger. Welding the complete vertical seam is a waste of welding rod as any crack will start at the top and work its way down the weld.

Likewise fish plating the vertical sides of the cracked frame is a waste. A box beam achieves it's strength from the separation of the top and bottom plates of the frame. To correct a failure in this type of beam the top and bottom plates of the frame should be welded or fish plated to achieve max. strength. Unfortunately to d it right that would require removing the body to get to the top of the frame.
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Old 10-20-2010, 01:12 AM   #92
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Frame cracks!!!1

HowieE, Take a look at my photos. The horizonal cracks are at the bottom of the curbside outriggers just forward of the front axel. The frame is actually pushed in and cracked. I understand that the buckled frame has put pressure on these outriggers. What's your thoughts. Airstray
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Old 10-20-2010, 08:12 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In View Post
How do you suggest cross members be welded to the frame?

Andy
FYI, the factory has replacement outriggers that span the full 4''. They are to be sister welded to the original outriggers. These new ones will not buckle the frame at the bottom of the ''short'' riggers.
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Old 10-21-2010, 12:59 PM   #94
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Airstray's photos!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DON GUBRUD View Post
FYI, the factory has replacement outriggers that span the full 4''. They are to be sister welded to the original outriggers. These new ones will not buckle the frame at the bottom of the ''short'' riggers.
My '03 22ft. CCD. The frame cracks are curbside just forward of the axel. The buckled frame is, of course, behind the axels. [ATTACH][ATTACH][ATTACH][ATTACH][ATTACH][ATTACH][ATTACH][ATTACH][ATTACH]Click image for larger version

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Old 10-22-2010, 11:52 AM   #95
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my friend with the 22' 2003
We both have the same model, same problem, same solution.
We both bought a lemon and are stuck with it unless we can bring legal action against AS. Not only is your frame a total failure[ and outriggers] notice the rust on it. The paint they used was water base, not oil.
Your solution is the same as mine. Patch it up the best you can, keep a eye on new cracks as they will continue to accrue. It is simply a poor design and the factory will do a little as posible to correct it. Consider converting your RV to a construction field office or a hot dog stand.
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Old 10-23-2010, 12:22 PM   #96
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Quote:
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my friend with the 22' 2003
We both have the same model, same problem, same solution.
We both bought a lemon and are stuck with it unless we can bring legal action against AS. Not only is your frame a total failure[ and outriggers] notice the rust on it. The paint they used was water base, not oil.
Your solution is the same as mine. Patch it up the best you can, keep a eye on new cracks as they will continue to accrue. It is simply a poor design and the factory will do a little as posible to correct it. Consider converting your RV to a construction field office or a hot dog stand.

All true, and add mine to the list of 13 22' CCD's, including the one up there at the same time that I have know of as mine that they said had nothing in common with my damage. That one was only 4 SN's less than mine, probably the same day or couple of days off the line, what could they have changed in that time.

I now do have the frame kit installed - much to their disagreement that it would solve my or anyone elses issues with floor rot and frame warp.

I will quote them "It's all how you maintain your trailer, it's not Airstreams fault!"

Good luck to all of you, Mike
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Old 10-23-2010, 02:05 PM   #97
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Airspray

Would you explain each of you pictures as to just what we are looking at and from what angle.

Your 5th and 6th picture. Is there any deflection in the vertical flange of the channel or just the deflection that is clearly seen along the bottom?

What are the new pieces you show and where are they going?

My early comments were based on the assumption that Airstream was still using a box beam frame. A channel frame for trailer of this weight is a joke. I would expect them to fail if the fat lady walked to the back of the trailer while parked.
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Old 10-23-2010, 09:16 PM   #98
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I wonder if they had a bad shippment of frames during that time or? I have a 2004 and my frame looks good and is not rusty like yours. Curious to know if the floor of the airstream is an integral part of the whole structure. Floor rots out due to leaks or high moisture climate. Integral part of structure is lost, frame collapses. With a channel frame the floor should be part of its structure if you ask me.
Those dinky little brackets looks pretty lame. WTF airstream?
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