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Old 07-28-2006, 01:43 PM   #1
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1962 16' Bambi
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Frame Coating Options and effect on what type of Primer

I've been reading the threads and am debating whether to powdercoat my frame or use one of those epoxy type sealants like POR that I keep reading about. I just dropped off my frame at a place that's going to sandblast it, weld up any rotten metal, and the guy said he had to put primer on it or it would start to rust again overnight. I'm wondering if it's necessary to use different types of primer on the frame if I was going to use the POR stuff or if I was going to powdercoat it, or does the underneath layer not matter with either of these systems.

To be honest I'm not totally clear about what powdercoating is other than that on the VAP they said it was an awesome coating for axles so to me it seems like doing the frame that way would be equally as awesome. It may be unrealistically expensive though. I've yet to find somebody who'll do it to something as large as a trailer frame.
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Old 07-28-2006, 02:36 PM   #2
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POR-15 is a liquid epoxy/glass type paint that is applied with a sprayer or brush. It adheres VERY well to lightly rusted surfaces as long as they are structurally sound. I believe it actully bonds better to the rust than to a primer.

Powder coating is the technique of applying dry paint to a part. In normal wet painting such as house paints, the solids are in suspension in a liquid carrier, which must evaporate before the solid paint coating is produced.

In powder coating, the powdered paint may be applied by either of two techniques.
  • The item is lowered into a fluidised bed of the powder, which may or may not be electrostatically charged, or
  • The powdered paint is electrostatically charged and sprayed onto the part.
The part is then placed in an oven and the powder particles melt and coalesce to form a continuous film.

There are two main types of powder available to the surface finisher:
  • Thermoplastic powders that will remelt when heated, and
  • Thermosetting powders that will not remelt upon reheating. During the curing process (in the oven) a chemical cross-linking reaction is triggered at the curing temperature and it is this chemical reaction which gives the powder coating many of its desirable properties.
I think you would be pretty hard-pressed to find an oven large enough and suitable to bake your frame with a powder coat finish...not impossible, but not a DIY project. An axle is a more managable size...

Shari
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Old 07-28-2006, 04:42 PM   #3
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Por-15

Thanks Shari,

Now that you describe the process I can see why a trailer frame is a difficult thing to do in powdercoat. That would take a big oven. I reviewed the POR-15 website and that stuff looks pretty bullet proof. I think it's probably the better option and certainly more appealing since I can do it myself and save a lot of money that could be applied towards my new powdercoated Dura-Torque axle!

Best!

Steve H.
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Old 07-28-2006, 05:29 PM   #4
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I also vote for Por-15
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Old 07-28-2006, 05:34 PM   #5
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pwder coating

there are two places in my area that can do frames. i think they bake @ 400fahrn! i have taken some things there and they do good work. i have seen anything from car parts, motorcycles, race cars and industrial racks for gm done there. a hard as nails finish. if you want pm me and i can get the numbers 4 u. you are about a 14hr trip away.

i have used por-15 as well and it is a good product. you definely want some rust to paint on to as it chemicaly bonds to the rust and changes the moleculer structure (per literature) to help stabilize. they also recomend to paint over the por-15 if exposed to uv's as it will discolor. that black opaque milky color. although on a frame probably not. i would repaint w/ cheap spray paint though.


crowbar
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Old 07-28-2006, 06:42 PM   #6
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Steve,
I used POR-15 on my frame. Great stuff. Hard to get it off your skin, though. And boy, there really are alot of surfaces on the frame!
It's true, too -- I coated it about 18 hours after the sandblasting was done, and you could see tiny rust specks forming all over.
As far as powder coating - I've used Ultimate Powder Coating in Shirley for smaller stuff (cast iron radiators, etc). They do a nice job...they do have a pretty big oven. But I don't know for sure if it's THAT big. They're open on saturday, I think, too. 399-4527.
But there's NO doubt that powdercoating will be the expensive way to go.
Is your frame in Riverhead?
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Old 07-28-2006, 07:25 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funchucky1
Steve,
I used POR-15 on my frame. Great stuff. Hard to get it off your skin, though.
you will definetly wear por-15 for a week or so before it comes off. i used latex gloves and long sleeve shirt, and still managed to get some on me.
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Old 07-29-2006, 12:44 PM   #8
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Sounds like it's POR-15 and a rubber body suit!

I'm getting a lot of thumbs up on the POR-15 front here. Chuck the frame's in East Hampton. The guy there was into it and didn't want to charge too much so I opted for the shorter drive, but I'm going to call the Powdercoaters in Shirley just out of curiousity. It really seems that Por's the stuff though and that everybody (body sticking coating not withstanding) really feels it's a good solution.

Thanks all!
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Old 10-20-2006, 08:44 PM   #9
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It sounds like getting access to a powdercoat facility might be a big task: http://www.airforums.com/forum...ame-26384.html

Por-15 is definitely for old steel -- a broken down finish and rust helps it adhere.
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Old 04-11-2007, 02:17 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsideOut
POR-15 is a liquid epoxy/glass type paint that is applied with a sprayer or brush. It adheres VERY well to lightly rusted surfaces as long as they are structurally sound. I believe it actully bonds better to the rust than to a primer.

Powder coating is the technique of applying dry paint to a part. In normal wet painting such as house paints, the solids are in suspension in a liquid carrier, which must evaporate before the solid paint coating is produced.

In powder coating, the powdered paint may be applied by either of two techniques.
  • The item is lowered into a fluidised bed of the powder, which may or may not be electrostatically charged, or
  • The powdered paint is electrostatically charged and sprayed onto the part.
The part is then placed in an oven and the powder particles melt and coalesce to form a continuous film.

There are two main types of powder available to the surface finisher:
  • Thermoplastic powders that will remelt when heated, and
  • Thermosetting powders that will not remelt upon reheating. During the curing process (in the oven) a chemical cross-linking reaction is triggered at the curing temperature and it is this chemical reaction which gives the powder coating many of its desirable properties.
I think you would be pretty hard-pressed to find an oven large enough and suitable to bake your frame with a powder coat finish...not impossible, but not a DIY project. An axle is a more managable size...

Shari
I am planning on touching up the tongue and rear bumper on the Excella this spring. As I was poking around last weekend it occurred to me I should touch up some of the exposed frame underneath as it is rusted, nothing extensive, just what is exposed.
I am planning on wire brushing the tongue and rear bumper, then priming and spraying with Rustoleum.
I am not so sure what to do with the frame. As it is not exposed, cosmetics are not an issue, I am just trying to control some of the oxidation. My first thought was to sandblast and then prime and spray with Rustolem. It does not look practical to wire brush the frame as it is more difficult to access, so I thought the sandblaster might do the trick. I can borrow a portable blaster, set up some tarps, etc. A little complicated, but not too bad.
Then I saw this about POR-15 and I have some questions;
  • Would this be a better/easier option for the frame (not the tongue and bumper, I am all set with that…I think?), sounds like POR would be easier than the blast-prime-paint option.
  • If using POR-15 and it is best to have rust to bond to, is any prep needed? Sanding? Wire brush?
  • Am I kidding myself that there is any value in just touching up the exposed frame without pulling off belly pan and doing the whole thing?

I used POR-15 on a truck chassis some years ago, but don’t remember the details…

Thanx, Bill
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Old 04-12-2007, 01:01 PM   #11
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POR-15 advice?

OK-I have done some more research, it seems that it is very popular among Streamers, I still have some? for you POR-15 experts.
  • If I am going to touch up the tongue-rear bumper area-and exposed portions of frame, should I just use POR-15 grey (not silver, there are 2 different ones) instead of just painting the tongue and bumper area with Rustoleum? In other words, POR-15 for everything and just skip paint all together.
  • Does POR-15 give a finish as nice as paint?
  • There is much rust underneath (frame) no soft spots or “rot” that I have seen yet, but it is very rusty. Is any mechanical prep needed for POR-15? (Sanding, wire brush) or is there primer sufficient?

As you know, this is not a job I wish to repeat to often…

Thanx, Bill
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Old 04-12-2007, 01:44 PM   #12
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Hi Bill -- Wire brush as much as you want. You'll still not get every last bit of rust off and that's actually desirable. I had some pitted areas on my Argosy that'd have been impossible to get all cleaned out. If you're going to Por-15 areas with paint remaining I'd be sure to use some very aggressive sandpaper to give some 'tooth' to the surface; the manual probably says to remove all paint but this is not always easy or practical. Follow Por-15's instructions from MarineClean, thru MetalReady, then Por-15. You'll want your final coat to be a UV blocker. Por-15 is self leveling and leaves a surface slightly smoother than the substrate -- not much for brush marks at all.
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Old 04-12-2007, 02:47 PM   #13
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Thanks Bob; does this mean you can skip wire brush all together on the heavily rusted frame if rust is a desirable bonding surface (no evidence these have ever been painted or otherwise coated (1989 Excella))?

Should I just Rustoleum the painted tongue and bumper (of course, these are painted, and not rusted or in bad shape at all, just wanted to “spiff em up” before they do rust)?

Would hate to remove good paint just so I could re-coat with POR., or is POR so good that I should make the extra effort?

Is the grey (not silver with particles) the way to go?

Summary;
  • Frame is heavily rusted, not corroded or soft.
  • Tongue and rear bumper need cosmetic work

Thanx again. Bill
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Old 04-13-2007, 09:46 AM   #14
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Hi Bob, called POR this a.m.
I think I may go with Rustoleum on tongue and bumper as they are not in bad shape and it sounds like I would have to strip the (good) paint in those areas for POR to be effective.
I will use POR on the heavily rusted exposed frame areas underneath.
I still am not sure if I should mechanically prepare (blast/brush/sand) these areas or just go right over the rust with POR's Metal Ready?
Can I skip the hassle of of sanding/blasting?
What has been your experience?
If results are better with a sanded/blasted surface I will do this, but it is a little confusing as they say a "rusted" surface is better to bond to; HOW MUCH RUST?

Thanx, Bill
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