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Old 12-18-2005, 05:46 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkR
I am still watching for the curved C-Channel solution. My '51 didn't even have a C-Channel at the curves, just little "tabs" of scrap aluminum at the verticals. When I start reassembling (hopefully within the next decade) I really want a continuous piece/channel at the curves. I'm guessing one solution is to make a C-Channel and then do a lot of "clipping" on the inside leg so it can be "bent" to make the curve, but I'd really like something w/ significant structural "integrity" out on that edge (that already seems like it's "hanging out in the breeze" so to speak).
Thanks again, Mark
Mark,
If you commision a metal shop to make you some long .040 C-channel in straight pieces, and follow your plan to cut triangles out of the channel in order to make it form a curve, you will be amazed how strong it gets once you bolt it down and connect some of the tabs with each other with rivets. Not quite a solid and pretty as a pre-formed piece, but definitely stronger than just little angle pieces.
I did this a few times to repair bent vertical ribs,ann the end result is very good and solid.
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Old 12-18-2005, 06:03 PM   #86
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Thanks Uwe.

Another thing I noticed when pulling everything apart was the bolts at each outrigger (at the c-channel) "ate" away the c-channel so they were no longer holding the channel down - technically they were holding the mush, I mean plywood down and the channel was screwed to the mush, I mean plywood so perhaps it wasn't that serious . . . Is there a special washer that will be compatible w/aluminum and steel to help prevent this from happening again?
(hope I'm not too far off topic for this thread)
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Old 12-18-2005, 06:22 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkR
Thanks Uwe.

Another thing I noticed when pulling everything apart was the bolts at each outrigger (at the c-channel) "ate" away the c-channel so they were no longer holding the channel down - technically they were holding the mush, I mean plywood down and the channel was screwed to the mush, I mean plywood so perhaps it wasn't that serious . . . Is there a special washer that will be compatible w/aluminum and steel to help prevent this from happening again?
(hope I'm not too far off topic for this thread)
MarkR,

I am afraid that the best you can do is just make everything as water proof as possible, at teh same time allowing a bit of circulation for drying out condensation. Eventually the corrosion will happen again, but it might not be for a very long time if you keep things as dry as possible. I made sure that as far as I can take it, all seams are sealed well, and taht the insulation is seamless as well, with little to no air gaps from inside to outside. I am hoping that this will slow down future corrosion. Some of it is also caused by dissimilar metal corrosion. Most of my floor was mush as well, and much of the c-channel was in bad shape. I made very many new pieces. The curved sections were in very good condition, however.
Maybe a carbon or hard plastic washer under the bolts would help some.
I'd say don't worry about it, and just go for it. The factory still does the same thing, if I remember correctly.
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Old 12-18-2005, 11:32 PM   #88
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Shrinker/Strecher

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkR
Thanks for posting all these pictures, issues, questions, answers . . .
I am still watching for the curved C-Channel solution. My '51 didn't even have a C-Channel at the curves, just little "tabs" of scrap aluminum at the verticals. When I start reassembling (hopefully within the next decade) I really want a continuous piece/channel at the curves. I'm guessing one solution is to make a C-Channel and then do a lot of "clipping" on the inside leg so it can be "bent" to make the curve, but I'd really like something w/ significant structural "integrity" out on that edge (that already seems like it's "hanging out in the breeze" so to speak).
Thanks again, Mark
Have you seen a tool called a Shrinker/Stretcher. They are use in aircraft construction as well the auto industry. See this web sight.
www.eastwoodco.com/ jump.jsp?itemID=1488&itemT...
If you look at the pictures in the section you will see that one tool makes an inside curve and the other makes an outside curve. It take some practice and time to learn to use these tools. What you could do is make both curves and then place on over the other and then bolt them into place. You might also look up your local Experimental Aircraft Association group and see if you can have someone give you a demonstration. You might also look for a DIY type site on the net that would explain how these tools are used.
Just a thought.
Don
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Old 12-19-2005, 12:32 AM   #89
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Don, took me awhile to figure out (picture in my mind) your idea . . . now I get it, sounds like a good strong solution. I think maybe if I have the curved plywd floor I could "train" the angle peice by attaching it at one end and then pulling/pushing it along the curve . . .
Thanks, Mark
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Old 12-19-2005, 10:54 PM   #90
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Shell pre fit

Today I started the prefit. The front and sides look good. The back is tight. So I will have to trim a small amount off the back and back corners. Move the C channel in to allow for the thickness of the belly pan skin. I need to look at things closer tomorrow, but It looks like most of the holes look like they are lining up. I know I will have to lift the shell off again to finish the floor and belly pan. But it sure was great to see the shell and floor of the trailer as one piece again. It was also nice that it warmed up so I could work. 54 degrees in the garage.
Don
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Old 12-21-2005, 10:46 PM   #91
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Pre fit a success!

Well I completed the pre fit of the shell and the trailer floor on my 63 Bambi today. It was extra work but I'm glad I did. If you look at the attached photo, you will see that I had to move the back curved C channel in. On the left side the move was 1/2". On the right side the move was 1/4". This was accomplished by trial and error and measuring the inside length of the floor front to back between the C channel. After the excess plywood was trimmed, I then slipped .250 shim material in between the shell aluminum and the plywood floor at the overlap. I did this all the way around to make sure there would be room for the belly pan metal later where the shell goes on for keeps. The next steps I have planned are.
1. remove the shell again.
2. remove the C channel and reinstall with a thin layer of Valcum between the C channel and the plywood. All screws and elevator bolts will be fastened for the final time.
3. Then I will flip the trailer bed upside down to work "factory" style. I have created a double chain block and tackle system similar to the one shown in old factory pictures to accomplish this.
4. Next insulation of the belly and install the belly pans, holding tank, etc.
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Old 12-21-2005, 11:38 PM   #92
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I have a lancaster shrinker and stretcher set. They would work for this application if you made the C channel from two L shaped pieces. The outer part of the C channel would have the section of the L that is on the floor shrunk and the inner section would have its corresponding piece stretched.

After forming the C channel (one piece) I cut slits with a nibbler to make the curves like Don did. No need to cut wedges. Prior to installing the inner skin I'll mark on the floor where the best places to drill through to the C channel.

The bomber solution would be to take an extruded C-channel and have the curve put in with a ring roller. You would need to bring a curve template to the fabricator. I'm with Uwe that the original way seems plenty strong.

As for the bolts that attach through to the outriggers you might consider bending up a C channel that will fit inside the corroded section.

I'm using zinc coated bolts and I'm considering spraying them with battery terminal treatment stuff. Any thoughts on that idea?
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Old 12-22-2005, 07:19 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig T
As for the bolts that attach through to the outriggers you might consider bending up a C channel that will fit inside the corroded section.

I'm using zinc coated bolts and I'm considering spraying them with battery terminal treatment stuff. Any thoughts on that idea?
Like a double C-Channel where the outriggers are! Why didn't I think of that when I had the opportunity to do it....I used large washers instead.

Battery terminal coating often is for neutralizing acid, and will likely have little effect on the longevity of your bolts. I believe the best way to prevent corrosion is to do a thorough and clean job, making sure that the installation is water proof. Also, it seems that some ventilation near the bottom of the inside skin of the trailer might be a good idea, to aid in dispersing possible condensation. This would depend, of course, on the method of insulation used.
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Old 12-22-2005, 09:38 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uwe
Also, it seems that some ventilation near the bottom of the inside skin of the trailer might be a good idea, to aid in dispersing possible condensation. This would depend, of course, on the method of insulation used.
This seems like the better approach. I'm using a closed cell insulation that does not soak up water. I also caulked the window frames. Several base vents around the perimeter will be part of the plan. An Airstream tech suggested the same for the belly pan when I contacted them for information awhile ago. Silver streak and Boles Aero used exterior vents for their walls. I used round, louvered aluminum vents for the soffets on the shop that should do the trick (in a smaller size).
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Old 12-28-2005, 08:11 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig T
I used round, louvered aluminum vents for the soffets on the shop that should do the trick (in a smaller size).
pics, please!



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Old 12-28-2005, 11:32 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig T
I used round, louvered aluminum vents for the soffets on the shop that should do the trick (in a smaller size).
Indeed, I would love to see some pictures showing how you did this.

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Old 12-31-2005, 11:33 AM   #97
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Pics

Craig T, I'd like to see pics or your work as well.
Don
Update: I have the shell off again, and I am ready to start on the finnishing of the underside of the trailer. Yreka had 4.81 inches of rain yesterday. We are wet!
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Old 12-31-2005, 03:40 PM   #98
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bolts

I was concerned with the glav. steel bolts going through the aluminum channel, and in moisture, making a di-electric contact. There had been evidence of this kind of corrosion, so I used screws through the u-channel with washers with a neoprene gasket, gasket against the al. channel. It seemed like a good idea at the time...

Peter
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