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Chuck · 09-27-2015, 05:32 PM

Since the sheet-metal shop is closed today, and I remembered that I already had them bend up the bumper flashing, I thought I'd have a crack at forming the bumper "corners".
I had the shop bend me a straight piece of .032 to use for flashing along the center panel...perfectly straight. I happened to have my steel hold-down plate with me when I was at the shop, so we used that to get the angle, which works out to 80 degrees. I also had them make a couple short pieces, about 8" long, with a wider base to make up the distance, so there would be adequate material to attach the bumper trunk lid to. They wanted no part of trying to form the curve, though.

I didn't want to spring for a shrinker/stretcher that I'd only ever use once...and even so, it won't do a piece this long. (limited to an inch or 1 1/2..the base of this piece needs to be at least 3".).

So I came up with my own method for making the straight metal conform to the compound curve. You've heard of the "English Wheel?" Well, this ain't that.
I call it: "The Irish 2 x 4".

I took a piece of cardboard, and traced out the curve in question on the back corners of the trailer, then transferred this to a scrap piece of 2x4 (right down the middle). Then took my jig saw, adjusted the shoe to tilt back 10 degrees, and made the cut.
Then I took the straight piece of angle, and squeezed it between the 2 2x4 halves using some clamps. Yes, I had to fuss with it a bit, as the metal was reluctant to conform, but after tapping here and there, using a bench vice, squeezing from different directions, I worked it into something that looked pretty close to what I was aiming for. So, I took it out to the trailer, and wouldn'tcha know--it fits.
Now I just need to square off the overhanging bits and cut it, and it'll be ready to go.

Its really sad when you think about it...all of those innocent trailers had to suffer rotten floors for lack of something I could finagle in a couple of hours, and cost only a few dollars. I'm sure a skilled metal worker, like, say....in a factory where they make aluminum trailers, could do this in a couple of minutes.

Chuck · 09-27-2015, 06:43 PM

Here's a couple of pix of the fiber-optic sensor and boot. Couldn't focus any closer than this, but I left the uploads full size, so you can zoom in for more detail.

Jim & Susan · 09-27-2015, 07:25 PM

Thanks Chuck! I was all fired up to go out and finish the repair on mine over the next couple days, but alas, all rain in the forecast. Can't catch the proverbial break.

Jim

robwok · 09-30-2015, 12:27 PM

Id suggest the sheet metal on the bottom of the pans too. The only thing to think about though is galvonic. You'll almost always have some water or antifreeze in those tanks. Air in the belly pan will condense on a cooler surface. I had galvanized metal straps on my 1/4" ABS tanks. I just painted them where they'd touch the belly pan, but for the most part they never touched. Just something to think about. You don't want to corrode a hole in the belly pan.

Chuck · 09-30-2015, 01:03 PM

the straps are painted with por15; If I add a sheet of galvanized for added support, do you think I should paint that, too, or is the galvanized coating enough?

HiJoeSilver · 09-30-2015, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck

the straps are painted with por15; If I add a sheet of galvanized for added support, do you think I should paint that, too, or is the galvanized coating enough?

Galvanizing on the metal is enough.

Chuck · 10-03-2015, 05:07 PM

So my new tank arrived today. I ordered one in the larger size (that didn't exist when I bought the others), which was made with the '70's frames in mind...1" taller, and 5" longer. The actual height is 4 3/4".
I wanted to swap one of the originals for this larger tank because it'll give 6 more gallons of capacity, I needed to change the drain configuration, and also, it'll work properly with a see-level gauge (need 4 3/4 minimum).

So, I put it in place, and it is a tight fit being supported by the straps. The top of the tank is the exact height of the top of the x-members. The straps are 1/8th thick, and I mounted them so that they're slightly above the bottom of the x-members, to keep the tank from sagging into the belly pan, but that consumes all of the space. I'm concerned that the tank will be squeezed to tight in there.

So I'm wondering now if I should get rid of the straps, and get a piece of diamond plate, and bolt it up to the bottom of the x-members. I could use riv-nuts so blind bolts can be used. That'll hold the tank up , support it entirely, and can be the "belly pan" for that frame section.

Thoughts?

Jim & Susan · 10-03-2015, 06:12 PM

I'd go with the Diamond Plate idea for the extra strength. I suspect the tanks will get pretty heavy with liquid in them. I saw some diamond plate made of aluminum once. Might help keep the weight down some.

Jim

HiJoeSilver · 10-03-2015, 06:21 PM

Diamond plate will support the weight. It'll be more expensive because of the diamond premium. Plain sheet same thickness will work fine, aluminum will support as long as it's thick enough. Self tapping 1/4" bolts into the frame or drill and tap some 1/4" holes will work too.

Widget · 10-04-2015, 07:10 AM

Chuck - Did you get that new larger tank from VTS too? The bigger the better since I'm only going to be doing a single gray. Still pulling the belly pan and finding out how much rust/rot I have. This thread is like a textbook for my re-assembly!

Bauxter · 10-04-2015, 07:33 AM

Chuck, Have you installed the sensors on the side of the tanks yet? Is the tank poly-ethylene or ABS? The outside of my abs tank isn't quite smooth and has kind of a textured surface. Wondering what your thoughts were concerning the ability of the see-level sensors to adhere to the textured surface.

mike

Chuck · 10-04-2015, 05:01 PM

Tank is from VTS...21 gallon.

These grey tanks are polyethylene, but I'm not sure about the black tank. No idea on how that'll work out, now that you mention it. One of the reasons I chose this particular tank is because it had a flat vertical wall that runs the entire height, so the see-level will work with it.

I didn't do much this weekend, after seeing how the new grey tank fits in...have to ponder it for a bit. One problem with bolting up a plate underneath is that one of the x-members (the forward-most) is obscured a bit by the axle tube. So...not so easy to drill into it from beneath. I think I may have to get another piece of angle-iron to marry to the face of the x-member. I can drill and bolt the vertical leg of the angle to the face of the x-member such that the horizontal leg wraps around the bottom edge, and forms a ledge that the tank support plate can slide into...then bolt the other edge of the plate to the aft x-member.
Of course, this leaves nothing to attach the belly pan section that will cover the next 2 frame bays (to the front of the trailer). Solution: get another piece of angle-aluminum bent up, and rivet that to the back of the steel angle.

Bauxter · 10-05-2015, 06:00 AM

Tanks

I used 1" angle for a frame around each tank, and started using metal strap, but switched out to 3 mini wood trusses under each tank (doubled -up 2X4 scribed to the contour of the bottom of the tank) that were bolted to the angle. Diamond plate sounds like a better solution...wished I would have thought of that.

The one thing I wished I would have done before putting it all back together was to put a tank heater under each tank, as I am not going to heat under the floor. Even If I didn't use it, it would be there just in case... I did stub out a 120v line, in case I needed it, in the rear of the trailer

Chuck · 07-03-2016, 07:03 AM

Can't believe I haven't updated in months...

.

Well, I did get the tanks mounted, as described above. Got it all plumbed, too, then ran out of summer, and had to put it away for the winter. I wasn't able to get hooked up with local helpers to finish flashing the back/bumper area...will get to it, eventually.

Over the winter, I decided that it just doesn't make sense to re-furb half the trailer. I've gone this far; doesn't make sense to not pull it all, get rid of the musty fiberglass, etc. So I've been picking away at the inside, totally gutting the rest of the interior. As I was pulling up the remaining pergo flooring, guess what I find? MORE FLOOR ROT.

Totally hidden by the pergo...in the small space between the galley and the gaucho. I had no idea there was a leak; it was totally hidden. But the floor was so saturated there, I could put my hand right through it.

The rot is centered at the front main bow, where the end-cap attaches to the straight sides of the camper. Not sure of the leak source, yet (haven't pulled the wall there, yet--maybe today), but its likely the tv antenna, or possibly the awning arm attachment. (have a full-length window awning on the street side).

After pulling everything else out so I can see the entire floor, there is damage on 2 of the 3 remaining original floor sections. Its mostly the big leak section in the front street-side corner area, but this spans the front 2 plywood sections. There is also a little dry-rot on the curb sides of these sheets. The area near the entry door is a little punky...evidence of an old leak...a little more up in the front curbside corner.

So now, the next big question is: repair (patch), or replace entire sheets?
I'm going to consult with some local friends who have done this before, but I'm thinking I'm probably going to wind up doing the same thing in front that I did in back.

Chuck · 07-24-2016, 07:00 AM

So the gutting is pretty much complete (except for the endcaps), and the belly pan is removed.
What was once a "fix floor and add grey tanks" project has now become The Full Monty™ .

The front 2 floor sections need to be replaced. The middle sheet (only one remaining) is actually not bad...but who replaces 4/5ths of a floor?

If you zoom in, you can see daylilght under the u-channel forward of the door.

And I realized, as I've been neglecting the thread, that I never posted the obligitory "new floor installed" shot of the aft end:

As far as the leak goes: I saw no evidence of any water coming in from above. No streaks on the wall, no leaking rivets, no soggy insulation. I believe that the rot was occurring from the bottom, up. (or side/end-grain).

Above shows the hole; much of the material around the hole that you can actually see--this could be pulled out as easily as pulling out fiberglass insulation.

Here is the cuprit:

If you look close, you can see where the outer skin hangs below the edge of the plywood in the encap area, protecting it from water...but as it transitions to the straight-side wall, it is trimmed up to where it meets the u-channel for the wall, exposing a small piece of ply. Either *not* trimming like that, or sticking in a teeny little strip of flashing would have prevented this. (sigh). Since the banana wraps attach on the outside, a small gap in the trim allowed water in, it was directed by the banana wrap to this exposed piece of wood. All of the insulation in the belly section below was soggy, too.

Those wraps were a bee-yotch to get out, too. held in place by hidden pop rivets, (which should be considered a crime against humanity

). They really did not mean for this to e v e r come apart.

Chuck · 07-24-2016, 07:15 AM

Next up is to remove the fresh tank, and the water heater.
I made an attempt at the fresh tank yesterday, but wasn't able to get the plywood to budge. I borrowed a come-along from a friend, and threaded an eye-hook into the endgrain, but the come-along just bent the eye-hook open. Need to pick up some more heavier ones at the hardware store, and try again. Its funny, the plywood moves up and down if you push up from below, so it seems "loose", but it doesn't want to slide forward.

The frame and outriggers all look fine, from what I can see, so it should be a fairly straight-forward wire-wheel/prime/paint once the floor comes out.

I'm wondering if its worth investing in a cheap sprayer from HF to spray por-15. I remember when doing the back half with a brush, thinking "this would be so much easier if I could just hit it with a spray-can.

Chuck · 08-04-2016, 07:44 AM

got the tank out.
come-along worked, with a bit of fussing. had to put in 2 heavy eye-hooks, spread appart a bit, then slid a piece of re-bar through the holes, and attached the come-along to that. still bent the rebar, but it did come out. got stuck in a couple of spots, and had to wiggle, jiggle, bang and thump, but it eventually came out.
Tank is in good shape; just has a lot of gunk (solid bits of debris) in it, and its impossible to just "flush it out", due to the odd shape, and the fact that the only entry/exit points are not in a low spot. I did some experimenting, and think I've got a way to vacuum it out...just need to hit the hardware store for pieces-parts.

Next up is the floor. It took about 2 days to get all the fasteners out. Some just didn't want to budge, others were just really hard to reach. Got the frame cleaned up; now to wire-wheel and get ready for paint. Its amazing how some sections still look fine--particularly the angle-iron cross member in the water tank bay--looks like it was installed yesterday.

more here:http://www.airforums.com/photos/brow...c=3457&userid=

Aerowood · 08-04-2016, 10:49 AM

Man I've seen this shot before. I picked up a cheap HF touch up gun to spray my POR 15 and just pitched it after I used it. Check out my 71 Globetrotter thread on how I insulated the "A" frame area. It worked out well. When I installed my new sub floor in the front I put the forward piece in first. I left the sides loose so that I was able to bow the sides out to install full width sheets. You're at the easy part know, installing new sub floor is much easier then removing old.

Chuck · 08-04-2016, 02:32 PM

I'll have to go check that out.
After doing a couple of quick google searches, it seems that you should have the protection of a full space-suit to spray the por, so I think I'll just suck it up and brush it.

I need to talk to you about one of those dent rollers, too.

got a few small dents (dimples) in front (from stones picked up on the road, no doubt), and I figure since everything is out of there, might as well have a crack at smoothing them out, if its possible. Would a small headed rubber mallet be appropriate? I took one larger one out (mostly) with the bottom of my fist. (like pounding fist on a table). there was a little bit of a crease in that one, and its still visible. I don't know if that should be "rolled", or heated, or what. School me!

spent all day wire-wheeling the frame today. dirty dirty dirty...probably as bad as polishing!

Chuck · 08-09-2016, 03:22 PM

Ok, on my "vacation" last week, I managed to get the floor out, frame cleaned up, prepped, por-15-ed, new floor sourced, and cut.
then I ran out of vacation.

Next weekend, I'll finish prepping the floor...sanding, cutting rabbets (mortise?), etc. (there's a 1/8th angle-aluminum piece in the doorway area that sits on top of the outriggers that should be accommodated, as well as the 1/8th or so thick wheel wells). probably won't get to put it in place, just yet, as "coats" (epoxy/varnish) will have to dry.

here we are all prepped:

and, the money shot:

Here's a shot of the original floor, all laid out:

And the new:

and no, the front piece is not wider than the other 2; I just don't have 3 sets of the same height saw horses.

Now all I gotta do is slide all this to the left.