Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-02-2006, 07:04 AM   #1
Silver Mist
 
LI Pets's Avatar
 
1977 31' Sovereign
Riverhead , New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,008
Images: 28
cut the floor or drop the belly pan?

I fixed a few leaks but water got into the insulation, I guess I could drop the belly pan and take it out but all this would be on my back.

What I was thinking about doing was cutting a center section of the floor out about 30" wide most of the length of the trailer.

I could also check the tanks, frame etc without being underneath.

The same plywood could be put back with cleats screwed in along the cut outs.

I was planning on fiber glassing the whole floor anyway to prevent future damage.

What do you think?
__________________

__________________
Bob
'77 Sovereign Intl 31' CB
WBCCI R2 Rep VAC 11411 Metro NY VP

LI Pets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2006, 07:29 AM   #2
Well Preserved

 
1993 21' Sovereign
Colfax , North Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 20,189
I would drop the belly pan. It would not compromise the floor, and you could get to everything under the coach, replacement would only require a box of aluminum rivets, instead of cleats or fishplates, or gusseting the floor.
The downside would be that you would be doing the work lying under the coach (although you could catch a nap that way), and the fiberglass would tend to get all over you (wear old clothes you want to throw away anyway).
__________________

__________________
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
Terry
overlander63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2006, 11:30 AM   #3
Rivet Master
 
1973 31' Sovereign
Portland , Oregon
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,245
Images: 22
While it would be a bit messier working from underneath that is a reasonable way to do it. Consider using a mechanics crawler to lay on and roll yourself around. I bought one and it helps a lot. Of course you do have to jack the AS up a bit so that there is enough room to roll around underneath. Jack stands under the ends of the heavy metal strips that the axle is bolted to makes a great support. I also used a bottle jack under that metal in between my tires to raise the rig. I did find that I could not remove the part of the belly pan that was above the axles without removing the axles though. There were not difficult to get off but I did have to buy a small floor jack to do it. They each way 200+ pounds. Also you will find propane lines here and there in the way of taking off the belly pan. You will also have to remove the leveler jacks from underneath since they are in the way of taking off some of the belly pan. You might want to check the overall condition of your belly pan. I found that I needed to take some of mine off anyway since it was coroded here and there and needed to be replaced.

With all the stuff in the way of working from underneath cutting out the floor like you suggest might not be a bad idea too. Some strips of plywood along the seams would give you something to glue/screw the middle piece to. The glue and screws along the joint would make the results pretty much as as strong as the orginal. When I replaced my subfloor I left about 1/2 of my belly pan on since it was in very good shape. So I removed and replaced the floor in that part entirely from above with good success. I did use gussets at the seams like you suggest. If it can work for the whole floor I don't see why it wouldn't work for just part of it.

The bottom line is that both approaches would work and it is your choice which way would work best for you.

I hope that helps some...

Malcolm
__________________
malconium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2006, 11:50 AM   #4
Rivet Master<br><img src="/ugala/forums/images/5rivet.gif">
 
CanoeStream's Avatar

 
2006 25' Safari FB SE
St. Cloud , Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,279
Images: 19
Blog Entries: 3
Bob, there's no single answer. The bellypan area does get air circulation and wet insulation shouldn't do permanent damage while it dries out -- if the floor was sound to begin with and all leaks are fixed. Enclosing the trailer and using a dehumidifier for a week or so could speed the process.

Removing floor where you'd walk would bother me. The floor would lose its membrane rigidity in the horizontal plane. This is the same reason you want your home subfloor to cross multiple joists. Side-to-side frame crossmembers would greatly restrict any useful access you might make from above. You'd almost have to drop the bellypan anyway if your inspection actually found something to be done.

[on edit:] Y'know, these floors are only 1/2" anyway. I really wouldn't cut into it unless I had to and the area was under bed or cabinet where no foot load was taking place. Screws and a backing board just aren't going to hold up to load in my opinion.
__________________
Bob

5 meter Langford Nahanni

CanoeStream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2006, 12:16 PM   #5
Silver Mist
 
LI Pets's Avatar
 
1977 31' Sovereign
Riverhead , New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,008
Images: 28
With the axle and LP issues I think going thru the top is easier.

The integrity of of the floor is not an issue in my mind see this link

http://www.glen-l.com/wood-plywood/scarf-butt.html

then fiber glass over the whole floor.

Next question, what kind of insulation should we use to replace?
__________________
Bob
'77 Sovereign Intl 31' CB
WBCCI R2 Rep VAC 11411 Metro NY VP

LI Pets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2006, 01:00 PM   #6
Rivet Master<br><img src="/ugala/forums/images/5rivet.gif">
 
CanoeStream's Avatar

 
2006 25' Safari FB SE
St. Cloud , Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,279
Images: 19
Blog Entries: 3
You can easily cut inspection panels in belly wrap and rivet slightly larger patches back in place.

Frame and crossmembers are in full contact with the floor underside. Glassing the floor could add significant weight that is not in the original design and would reduce your useful load correspondingly. Get to a CAT scale after project completion to assess fully.

Insulation has its best input on the trailer sides and above you. Sad to say the shell insulation is pretty minimal in R value. I wouldn't go overboard on floor insulation -- fiberglass stapled to any floor you reinsert should be good. Most foam will fall all apart with vibration & structural movement while underway. I would be concerned about it hiding & holding moisture up against the floor underside -- but I have done it under a gaucho -- pictures here. The foam was laid in and supported on the A-frame which was the right thickness below the main structural frame -- I didn't have to puzzle over fasteners. I then stapled fiberglass to the new floor outside the frame between the outriggers.

I'd still hesitate doing this just to dry out fiberglass -- that stuff is only 2" in the first place. Inspection value from above is still minimal IMO and you'd be challenged to do anything useful from above. By comparison crawl under your trailer and imagine how much easier cutting and patching a 2' x 3' hole in bellypan would be! Belly skin lap joints never were intended to be watertight and should not be sealed due to need for circulation/drying.
__________________
Bob

5 meter Langford Nahanni

CanoeStream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2006, 01:13 PM   #7
Silver Mist
 
LI Pets's Avatar
 
1977 31' Sovereign
Riverhead , New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,008
Images: 28
If you take of the belly pan or parts of it can you get to the area outboard where the out rigger framing is or is that blocked by the frame?

What about using foam board not styro the good stuff and gluing it up under the floor with some screws the right length top help hold in place.

I suppose I'm guessing because I haven't seen it first hand, or how about spray foam insulation?
__________________
Bob
'77 Sovereign Intl 31' CB
WBCCI R2 Rep VAC 11411 Metro NY VP

LI Pets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2006, 01:32 PM   #8
Rivet Master<br><img src="/ugala/forums/images/5rivet.gif">
 
CanoeStream's Avatar

 
2006 25' Safari FB SE
St. Cloud , Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,279
Images: 19
Blog Entries: 3
You can remove an edge piece of belly skin right where it meets the side wrap. Is the width of your trailer just under 8'? The fore and aft main frames are somewhere around 4' on center and outriggers are approximately 15". So yes, you can access outrigger areas this way.

Around any plumbing or trailer perimeter I would hesitate very strongly before installing foam right up against the underside of the floor. Any moisture between that and the floor would never dry and you'd get floor rot for sure. Short answer -- a strong 'no' to spray foam.

There are all sorts of hits about if you search the Forums on: aluminum .025"
__________________
Bob

5 meter Langford Nahanni

CanoeStream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2006, 05:13 PM   #9
Rivet Master
 
pinkflamingoes's Avatar
 
1967 24' Tradewind
Alameda , California
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,569
Images: 38
Blog Entries: 3
Send a message via AIM to pinkflamingoes Send a message via Yahoo to pinkflamingoes
I don't know which way is better, but I have been able to get quite a bit of work done under the trailer while it's up on my homemade ramps. Gives quite a bit of extra room, but that doesn't mean it's fun. Here's a picture.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	onjacks2.jpg
Views:	116
Size:	36.5 KB
ID:	25496  
__________________
"Let's look Death in the face and say, 'Whatever man.'"
~ Hurley

ingrid
1967 24' Tradewind #19104 ~ Forums #4449
pinkflamingoes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2006, 05:43 PM   #10
Rivet Master<br><img src="/ugala/forums/images/5rivet.gif">
 
CanoeStream's Avatar

 
2006 25' Safari FB SE
St. Cloud , Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 13,279
Images: 19
Blog Entries: 3
.... and by the way. You don't want to use tin snips to cut any aluminum -- the edge gets twisted & warped all sorts of ways. There's a good manual tool for small jobs -- see pics & links in lewster's post here. I've used it quite a bit and it works well if you're patient (better ones available if you have air tools and $$). Also look at this thread. Lots of useful info all through both -- there's a link for Metal Supermarkets -- probably one of those near you. .025" might be a special order.
__________________
Bob

5 meter Langford Nahanni

CanoeStream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2006, 12:12 PM   #11
1 Rivet Member
 
Currently Looking...
Currently Looking...
Toms River , New Jersey
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 19
Images: 5
Putting fibreglass (or any sealer) on only one side of a board, especially one exposed to wide variations in temperature and humidity, can do more harm than good. Moisture can be trapped or escape through only one side of the panel.
This can cause twisting or warping, even delamination of the plys.
Besides that, waterproofing the floor isn't addressing the problem.
I'm refurbishing a '63 Avion 24' and a '73 Sovereign, both have floor problems.
I'll be working from above and below on both units, though I'll take the shell off of neither.
Properly scabbed, your floor patch idea will work fine. I'm planning on using the same technique and hoping to engineer it so that the panel or "hatch" can be easily reopened if necessary.
Jeff
__________________
Dovetail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2006, 04:57 PM   #12
Rivet Master
 
Over59's Avatar
 
1959 26' Overlander
Putnam , Connecticut
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,064
Images: 37
I may not be understanding the problem you are trying to fix. If you are just concerned about water having been under the floor and the insulation being wet between the floor and the frame members then it will dry out as you drive. If the leaking was a flood with water running out of the belly pan seams I would suggest the following.

If the side to side frame members are of a year that doesn't have hole then check the tightness of the belly pan to the frame. You will want air to move the length of the trailer. If the frame has holes you are all set.
Cut some nice holes in the belly pan as far back as you can in front of the last frame member. Like 5 one-inch holes. Engineer some way to blow warm air into the belly pan from the other end. A pvc pipe with T's at the hole connected to a shop vac in the rear to pull the air would help. The idea is to pump warm air through the space to dry it out. Leave it run for a week. If the leaks haven't been ongoing and the insulation repeatedly wet for long periods then you should be fine.

Now if these leaks were around for awhile like 5 years you need to beware of the adage..... don't look unless you are prepared to do the Monty. It's not an issue of are there problems, it's how bad is it and how much worse it will be when you start cutting out sections of floor. This could get out of controll really easy.
__________________
Over59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-27-2006, 05:49 PM   #13
Silver Mist
 
LI Pets's Avatar
 
1977 31' Sovereign
Riverhead , New York
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,008
Images: 28
Here is what the result of this thread started out to be

See here

Also I dropped the bannana skins
__________________

__________________
Bob
'77 Sovereign Intl 31' CB
WBCCI R2 Rep VAC 11411 Metro NY VP

LI Pets is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Removing Belly Pan garp Belly Pans & Banana Wraps 5 07-06-2016 01:48 PM
where belly meets floor meets shell JrnymnJay Repairing/Replacing Floor &/or Frame 6 01-09-2006 01:05 PM
Fixing the Floor 61BambiCanada Repairing/Replacing Floor &/or Frame 6 01-06-2004 10:21 AM
Need HELP! Need help quick - dropping the belly pan escapeez Belly Pans & Banana Wraps 8 12-30-2002 07:03 PM
Question re how to cut aluminum sheeting and get a clean edge... williamhenshall Ribs, Skins & Rivets 7 06-12-2002 06:58 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.