Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-06-2004, 12:43 PM   #15
1 Rivet Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 5
My husband is up in the shed pulling up all the rotten flooring (back end) on our '64 Trail Wind...we are keeping a log of hours...why I don't know. I am running up to talk to him and get him to read the stuff Malconium wrote. It looks like ours has rot only in back. Like many people who have bought things thinking it was a quick-clean job and off we go? We are totally renovating. Taking the bathroom out was fun. Taking the closet out to get the bathroom out was fun. Taking the folding door sldie out to get the closet out to get the bathroom out was fun. Now we have gutted the sewer pipes/stacks, gutted the plumbing. trying to get the water heater out...(how did they get that sucker in?). And every day I ask myself...are we having fun yet?
We are 1st time Airstream owners, okay we are 1st time travel trailer owners. Have we gotten ourselves into something of a nightmare?
What is the common belief on refinshing the cabinets? Looks like our had a 'pickled' finish. White wash? Anyone have a finish like that? Can we strip them and re-'pickle'? They are fairly gross. Tried Tung Oil but it doesn't do anything for the used look. We are aiming for as close to the original look as possible.
__________________

__________________
The Farm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2004, 02:14 PM   #16
Rivet Master
 
Ken J's Avatar
 
1956 22' Flying Cloud
Durango , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 1975 25' Tradewind
Posts: 3,363
Images: 14
The floor should not have self tapping screws - my guess is those are from a previous repair.

Ken
__________________

__________________
1956 Flying Cloud
Founder :
Four Corners Unit
Albuquerque National Balloon Fiesta
Rally
Vintage Trailer Academy - Formerly the original
restoration rally
Ken J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2004, 04:20 PM   #17
Rivet Master
 
1973 31' Sovereign
Portland , Oregon
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,245
Images: 22
Water heater removal...

I just took out my water heater yesterday. Your unit is older than mine so it could be different but here is what I found. The whole water heater is held in place by screws that go all the way around the outside flange of the water heater. This includes along the bottom edge of the flange which was in my case behind the rub-rail trim strip just below the water heater. I had to drill out enough rivits on the rail to be able to flex it down a bit so I could get to those screws. I also found that I had to not only disconnect the gas line but I had to pull it all the way out the bottom of the water heater enclosure since it would have prevented sliding the heater out. Once the water lines were disconnected, the gas line pulled out and the screws all removed I was able to slide the water heater out (toward the outside of the trailer). It was a snug fit so I had to wiggle it back and forth a bit before it made it all the way. Also I had to run a putty knife around the edges to break loose the various types of sealer that had been used under and around the flange.

I know what you mean about your restoration project growing. I at least started with a trailer that had a lot of the interior already removed. I am not entirely sure now whether that was better or worse. I have had to guess at how some of the things used to be. A very big help was to get a copy of the 1973 shop manual. It clued me in quite a bit as to where to look for things and what to expect. Fortunately I do not feel any strong compulstion to build the trailer back to its original state but like the idea of customizing it to suit us.

I think the fun part will come into play later when you get to brag that you did it all yourself - at least that is what I am hoping for.

Malcolm
__________________
malconium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2004, 04:26 PM   #18
Rivet Master
 
1973 31' Sovereign
Portland , Oregon
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,245
Images: 22
Some more questions...

So if shimming was common the fact that I have some may not mean that the cross members need to be replaced? How do I decide what to replace (other than for obviouse rust deterioration?

If I do replace any of the cross members would it be OK to torch weld them rather than electric welding? I currently have access to a torch but not an arc welder. Would they have to be completely welded or is tack welding enough? The couple that I have looked at so far do not seem to be all that well attached.

Is the c-channel at the edge of the plywood a separate piece or is it part of the u-channel above?

Thanks,

Malcolm
__________________
malconium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2004, 04:31 PM   #19
Rivet Master
 
1973 31' Sovereign
Portland , Oregon
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,245
Images: 22
Question Would self drilling/taping screws be OK?

Any thoughts about the viability of the self-drilling and taping screws for holding the new flooring down once I get around to installing it? I could at least install them all from above. With the elevator bolts I would have to do some of the work from above and some from below and this, of course, assumes that I have adequate access from below too.
__________________
malconium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2004, 05:33 PM   #20
Site Team
 
, Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,940
Images: 59
There waas a pretty thorough discussion here:http://www.airforums.com/forum...ad.php?t=11104
__________________
markdoane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2004, 02:18 AM   #21
Rivet Master
 
1973 31' Sovereign
Portland , Oregon
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,245
Images: 22
Bolts vs screws...

I read the discussion about the merits of screws versus bolts. In myh mind it was not entirely conclusive. It seems that we could use some specific information about the relative stregth of different types of connections. There is no doubt in my mind that a bolt would be stronger as far as pull out is concerned compared to a screw of the same size but how much stronger? Would 2 or 3 screws equal one bolt for example? Also I wonder if the main forces on the attachment would be trying to pull it out or trying to shear it off?

Some other types of blind fastners come to mind that were not suggested as candidates. I wonder if a moly or toggle bolt of some sort might be a good idea? Do pop rivits come in sizes that would be big enough to use? Can they be had with a flat head so that they would finish flush with the wood surface like a flathead screw? I think I will do some further investigation if I have time.

Malcolm
__________________
malconium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2004, 09:54 AM   #22
Patriotic
 
Chuck's Avatar

 
1973 23' Safari
North of Boston , Massachusetts
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,533
Images: 260
I just had the pan off my 73...I'm confused about a couple of things. I did something similar to your drawing as a temporary measure, to shore-up the rotted floor along the back wall of the trailer. (about six inches or so is just completely gone) I don't understand why you want to do that instead of a single sheet of plywood that extends all the way out under the u-channel.

I also don't understand what the big deal is about dropping the bannana wraps. I had the back corner one's off in 2 minutes. and what I found was soaking wet insulation, as well as soaking-wet and rotted plywood battery-box supports. (get that insulation OUTTA there! ). The rear outriggers (only one's I uncovered) were in good shape, though...but there isn't anything supporting the plywood floor back there at all, and on the curbside corner, it was pretty badly damaged. I would think that a solid piece is the way to go.

Another forum member replaced the rear flooring with a type of 3/4" plastic that is used in boats...I'm thinking about going with that. it'll never rot. ever. allegedly, it cuts and holds screws just like plywood. another argument for that type of material is that the outer skin doesn't extend down far enough to cover the edges of the flooring...water will eventually get to this edge, one way or another. someone had smeared caulking along the edge of the plywood on my trailer as an attempt to protect it. don't know that it really did anything.

Oh, and that "shim" you mentioned: I noticed that there is a 5/8ths splice between the cross member and the floor, 48" from the rear edge of the trailer. I'm pretty sure this must be "factory", considering that its above the x-member at 48", and that the x-member is 5/8ths shorter that the other x-members to accomodate it. it is there to strengthen the seams in the plywood flooring panels.
__________________
Air:291
Wbcci: 3752
'73 Safari 23'
'00 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 QC
Chuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2004, 10:24 AM   #23
Rivet Master
 
Ken J's Avatar
 
1956 22' Flying Cloud
Durango , Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: 1975 25' Tradewind
Posts: 3,363
Images: 14
Dropping the belly is has to be one of the yukiest jobs in the world - but your right - it does go very quick and easy - and in my opinion, it needs to be done on most any older trailer. Its a good idea to wear a hat, gobbles and paper resporator - all kinds of junk will fall out.

I've done it 3 times and this week will be my 4th - trying to work up the motivation to do it, lying on my back drilling up with not much room and all kinds of junk falling out - just can't wait - but I also know the project is at a standstill until I get it done.
__________________
1956 Flying Cloud
Founder :
Four Corners Unit
Albuquerque National Balloon Fiesta
Rally
Vintage Trailer Academy - Formerly the original
restoration rally
Ken J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2004, 11:44 AM   #24
2 Rivet Member
 
mbatm01's Avatar
 
1963 22' Safari
Broomfield , Colorado
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 48
Images: 19
Regarding screws vs. bolts, for what its worth...

As I have mentioned in my other posts - the PO yanked the original floor and threw in the "Psuedo Floor" - thats what I am calling it at least. They just used self tapping screws and screwed down a patch work quilt pattern of very small pieces of plywood - never anchored the walls at all. We drove the trailer 1300 miles back home - not knowing how weak things were back there. Anyway, even with all of those small sheets sheering and moving, none of the screws were loose when I removed the Psuedo Floor.

So, I think that screws hold okay if you need to use them in a pinch to get things done. Just my two cents...

Kevin
__________________
mbatm01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2004, 12:36 PM   #25
3 Rivet Member
 
upallnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 163
Images: 15
I would like to point out that on my A/S at least, maybe yours too I don't know, but there are no penetration's of the main frame at any point, the only attachment penetration occurs on the crossmembers. I think putting self-tapping screws or drilling holes for rivets could weaken the frame.
__________________
Leonard

LotalaborAZ
upallnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2004, 12:46 PM   #26
Rivet Master
 
TomW's Avatar
 
1967 26' Overlander
Huntsville , Alabama
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,918
Images: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by upallnight
I would like to point out that on my A/S at least, maybe yours too I don't know, but there are no penetration's of the main frame at any point, the only attachment penetration occurs on the crossmembers. I think putting self-tapping screws or drilling holes for rivets could weaken the frame.
I noticed the same thing in my '67 Overlander with the exception of the aft portion of the shell - the shell's U-channel was attached to the frame with elevator bolts.

Tom
__________________
TomW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2004, 01:12 PM   #27
3 Rivet Member
 
upallnight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 163
Images: 15
Tom

You are correct, upon reflection mine is the same way.
__________________
Leonard

LotalaborAZ
upallnight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2004, 03:20 PM   #28
Rivet Master
 
1973 31' Sovereign
Portland , Oregon
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,245
Images: 22
To drop or not to drop...

Chuck,

First of all let me explain that I might not end up using the approach I suggest depending on what exactly I actually end up needing to do to my floor and frame.

My initial motivation for the propsed approach was a perhaps nieve thought that I might not need to drop the belly pan and banana wrap. I thought that if I were to take all the floor panels off I certainly could remove and replace the insulation from above and vacuum out any junk. So I thought maybe an approach that let me replace the floor entirely from the top might make sense. I also wanted to avoid lifting the body off if possible. The proposed approach could be done entirely from the top and without lifting the body. As it turns out I already have about 1/2 the belly pan off for various reasons.

The idea of having a shim and splice around the edges was motivated partly by the fact that it would allow me to securely tie down the walls working only from above. If I were to use bolts and nuts I could access both the top and bottom entirely by myself. With the full sheet of plywood in place I would have to have someone help me tighten them up (one person above and one below). It was also motivated partly by my thought that it would be easier to ease shims into place under the walls than it would to slide a whole sheet into place. I could, for example, lightly persuade the shims to slide into place with my rubber mallet. Another factor that I was considering was that the splice strip would also help strenthen the edges by giving me twice as much plywood thickness around the edges where the body attaches. At that point in my thinking I was not aware that there were no side rails between the outriggers so I might like the extra strength even if I were to run the plywood all the way out. I was also partly thinking that I could make the shims and splice strips out of something more waterproof and use more common (and therefore less expensive) plywood in the middle if that were to make sense from a budget perspective. Since making the proposal I have also discovered that I have c-channel under the u-channel. That would make it virtually impossible to use the clam-shell approach for inserting a full sheet of plywood under the ends of my trailer. Doesn't your 73 also have the c-channel under the u-channel?

I would be intersted in knowing more about the 3/4" plastic that you referred to. I am interested in considering alternative materials and have done some investigation along those lines. If you have any specific pointers to what was used I would like to know about them.

That is an interesting point about the shims. I am going to have to look more closely and see if my cross members are shorter where the shims are used. Thanks for the tip about that.

Thanks for the comments,

Malcolm
__________________

__________________
malconium is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.