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Old 09-06-2006, 08:01 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by uwe
Geez, Lynn, I go for a little motorcycle ride and when I come back you got the whole thing torn apart! Very good progress! You and John are definitely on your way now. Remember, it's uphill from here - everything will be like new and perfect!
A motorcycle ride right now sounds like a great bresk!
Don
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Old 09-06-2006, 09:38 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by NorCal Bambi
I have only 2 outriggers on both sides of the frame after the wheel. There is no sign of any outriggers ever being welded any further back. I'm considering putting a small outrigger back behind the two existing ones. Similiar to the two short ones in front. What do you think.
Don
We have two outriggers behind curbside wheel and one after streetside wheel. This is not including the one directly behind the wheel that the well attaches to. Our thoughts were exactly like yours...putting short outriggers farther back beside that last cross beam. That is where our bed and trunk will be and it seems we could use the support as our water heater may end up under the bed.

Lynn
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Old 09-06-2006, 10:10 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cloud55
We have two outriggers behind curbside wheel and one after streetside wheel. This is not including the one directly behind the wheel that the well attaches to. Our thoughts were exactly like yours...putting short outriggers farther back beside that last cross beam. That is where our bed and trunk will be and it seems we could use the support as our water heater may end up under the bed.

Lynn
I think that a few additional outriggers are a grand idea. They will not only stabilize the floor without adding too much additional stiffness, but also give additional support for bolts through the floor channel.
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Old 09-06-2006, 09:20 PM   #60
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don

Here's the pics I promissed. The picture of the twin beds - the one on the right side behind the bathroom is the one the solid waste tank is under (as well as under the toilet itself).

The picture of the counters and then the next one shows the doors open and the grey waste tank on the floor. HOpe this helps and it sure works slick, easy access if there's ever problems, and they are up and competely out of the way.
Barry
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Old 09-06-2006, 10:11 PM   #61
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Barry, I like your ideas. I'm going to give it serious consideration. It looks like it would make the plumbing much easer.
Thanks Don
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Old 09-06-2006, 10:21 PM   #62
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Sand blasting begins.
Don
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Old 09-08-2006, 12:56 AM   #63
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Sorry folks, no 55 work today... Don did a few finishing items that were waiting in the Bambi! My fault.

Mrs. NorCal Bambi (traveling in S Tardis)
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Old 09-17-2006, 12:01 AM   #64
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Looking for design ideas

Howdy, fellow Airstreamers. I working on layour designs for The 55 Flying Cloud. I have included three pictures for your comments. The first "Curb Side" shot shows the proposed placement for the fresh water tank, Black water tank, and the walls which will be cabinet for the Fridge. The second picture is from the "Street Side" and shows the 3 walls proposed for the bath layout. There will be no sink in the bath just the kitchen area. The next two walls will be used as a closet. I haven't come up with an idea for the placement of the Gray tank. Open to all suggestions. I'm planning to place all tanks in the frame to save inside space. In a later post I will be looking at the drain plumbing. The purpose of this trailer is to create a livin art studio. The third picture shows the fiberglass black water tank I am current thinking about building to fit in the area shown in the above pictures.
Don
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Old 09-17-2006, 11:32 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal Bambi
Howdy, fellow Airstreamers. I working on layour designs for The 55 Flying Cloud. I have included three pictures for your comments. The first "Curb Side" shot shows the proposed placement for the fresh water tank, Black water tank, and the walls which will be cabinet for the Fridge.
I believe that your fresh water will be a substantial amount of weight. If this weight is very close to the hitch, then it's variation when you're using water will inevitably change the way your trailer tows. If you keep it closer to the axle, then the effects of that will be much less. This is especially true for larger capacities. Your trailer was originally very light, so this percentage will really make a big difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal Bambi
The second picture is from the "Street Side" and shows the 3 walls proposed for the bath layout. There will be no sink in the bath just the kitchen area. The next two walls will be used as a closet. I haven't come up with an idea for the placement of the Gray tank. Open to all suggestions.
Generally, a flat grey tank that reaches uner the cabinetry on both sides should work in all applications. You can go as deep as 6-8in without making it look odd from the outside. I would place the tanks as close as possible to the axle. You might consider beefing up the frame, as your trailer only has 3in of open C-profile frame.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal Bambi
I'm planning to place all tanks in the frame to save inside space. In a later post I will be looking at the drain plumbing. The purpose of this trailer is to create a livin art studio. The third picture shows the fiberglass black water tank I am current thinking about building to fit in the area shown in the above pictures.
Don
Nice design, but why? If you're doing a tank that is on top of the floor, then why not keep it there? Unless you need huge capacity and want to make a combination black/grey. Simple works best, in my experience..
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Old 09-17-2006, 12:21 PM   #66
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Design surch

Uwe, Thanks for the input. And you are right Simple is best "KISS". I am not a math person. And I often wish I was. My bigest question is how does one make all these weight and placement changes and keep the tongue weight in the right envelope. I would be willing to learn the math, if there is someone out there who would be willing to share formulas and the time. I'm all ears. Originally the FC had a fresh water tank right in the front of the inside of the trailer above the floor. Maybe it held 10 gallons. Not that much weight. I use to have and fly a 1959 Bonanza aircraft. Weight and balance is very important in the safty of flying a small aircraft. In the weight and balance charts there were a variety of stations along the length of the plane that could be used to calculate the passengers, luggage, etc. so the aircraft could be kept within the limits of weight and balance. It would be a good tool if something could be developed for the design of trailers. As you know tongue weight and balance is very important in the handling of a trailer. On another wavelength, Our Bambi is a fair weather camper. I'm thinking about modifying the FC so it could be a very cold weather camper. The challange would be to design a system that would keep everything form freezing in very cold weather. Maybe that exploration should be on a separate thread.
Don
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Old 09-17-2006, 03:01 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal Bambi
Uwe, Thanks for the input. And you are right Simple is best "KISS". I am not a math person. And I often wish I was. My bigest question is how does one make all these weight and placement changes and keep the tongue weight in the right envelope.
Don,

I unashamedly and generously borrowed ideas from existing designs that Airstream uses. My Tradewind was the model used for the Overlander layout.
Consider a/c, furnace, water heater weight, stove, refrigerator placement, battery position, and tanks as the main culprits for permanent weight distribution concerns inside the trailer.
Then the closets and storage areas, as well as tanks, for weights that fluctuate depending on how much stuff and water you need to bring. I have tried to concentrate much of the sort of weight that can change a lot by using the systems over or very near the axles. So far I am very pleased with the results. I am not a math wiz or scientist either. Maybe I just got very lucky!

Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal Bambi
I would be willing to learn the math, if there is someone out there who would be willing to share formulas and the time. I'm all ears. Originally the FC had a fresh water tank right in the front of the inside of the trailer above the floor. Maybe it held 10 gallons. Not that much weight.
Well, 10gal is just not a huge concern. Once youre going near 40gal capacity, you will have substantial weight. I would not think that going through the effort of adding subfloor tanks is worth it if you can't get decent capacity.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal Bambi
I use to have and fly a 1959 Bonanza aircraft. Weight and balance is very important in the safty of flying a small aircraft. In the weight and balance charts there were a variety of stations along the length of the plane that could be used to calculate the passengers, luggage, etc. so the aircraft could be kept within the limits of weight and balance. It would be a good tool if something could be developed for the design of trailers.
I will eventually take my traielr to the scale with full, and then ampty water tanks and try and put a little science to this madness. Stay tuned for that one, might be a while.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal Bambi
As you know tongue weight and balance is very important in the handling of a trailer. On another wavelength, Our Bambi is a fair weather camper. I'm thinking about modifying the FC so it could be a very cold weather camper. The challange would be to design a system that would keep everything form freezing in very cold weather. Maybe that exploration should be on a separate thread.
Don
Don, I believe that for cold weather, you should provide a space for a powerful furnace that can be ducted in the tank cavities for tank heating.
Or, provide electrical wiring for installation of electric tank heaters. That's what i did. It limits me to hookup camping when it's freezing. Fine by me..
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Old 09-21-2006, 08:15 PM   #68
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Here's what we decided to do about the tanks

Your 3d images are so impressive. I would share our plan but it is pretty primitive...just drawn out on paper and I don't think it would show up if I scanned it.

Two of our tanks came in today so I can share pictures of those. I still have to pick up the fresh tank.

I wanted to use tanks that were stocked sizes since we are not handy enough to fabricate them and didn't want to pay more for custom sized ones.

It looks like your bath is going to be in apprx. the same spot as ours. One of the things I wanted to achieve was to have the tall size sealand toilet with tank under floor. Our toilet will sit to the inside of the wheel well. I found a waste tank that is wide enough to go under the toilet and come out from the wheel well enough to drain. It had to be long enough to drain to streetside as our bathroom is curbside. We ended up with tank #H36 from www.incaplastics.com It is a little larger than we will ever need at 20 gallons but has a good drainage and is 7" at the deepest point. In the picture you can see that the 3" drain that came stock on this clears the frame nicely. This tank cost $145.

The white tank in the photo is going to be used for our greywater. It also came in today from inca. It is tank #66 a 26 gallon fresh for $110. It will go in the space behind the black tank. It is 7" deep and we will need to put a bit of a slope to it. I couldn't find an in stock waste tank that was right so we will use this one. Uwe suggested using two of the H36 that we are using for black but we wanted a little more capacity.

I need to pick up the freshwater tank. It is going to be a 32 gallon #RV69W from www.roncoplastics.com It will go in the space in front of black tank near axle.

We will be moving a couple of crossmembers to accomodate the tanks. The ones in the photo with blue tape do not move...they are where the plywood lines up. We are going to take the frame in and have the welding done. The welder will reinforce the areas where tanks go.
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Old 09-21-2006, 08:29 PM   #69
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let me try posting the photos again ???

Here are the photos that I mentioned in the previous thread. The photo with both tanks is taken curbside and the one with John holding the tank is streetside.
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Old 09-21-2006, 08:37 PM   #70
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forgot to mention

I also forgot to mention that there is apprx. a 5" gap between tanks and frame along curbside to run our lines. Our galley sink and bathroom will all be curbside.

The most important thing I forgot to mention is how we figured this out....Uwe helped us....cause we don't know crap about this tank stuff!!!

Thanks Uwe!!!
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