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Old 02-01-2012, 05:04 PM   #253
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Marzboy, I am truly impressed. I bought my 69 Sovereign a couple of years ago from PO in Fl. it looked great on the out and in. I had to replace the floor in the front and rear soon after I got it because of rot. An being a newbie at AS repair have to replace the rear floor again. I pulled everything out this past weekend. Having a friend build me a black water tank holder, buying a new tank and then replumbing the water lines while everything is out. I will have to do a frame repair at the guy who is building my tank well, the curb side c channel is pretty bad. Reading your posts have helped in a lot of ways especially where to purchase items. Keep up the great work! I'm proud to have you as fellow Airstreamer!
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Old 02-01-2012, 10:44 PM   #254
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Marzboy, I am truly impressed. I bought my 69 Sovereign a couple of years ago from PO in Fl. it looked great on the out and in. I had to replace the floor in the front and rear soon after I got it because of rot. An being a newbie at AS repair have to replace the rear floor again. I pulled everything out this past weekend. Having a friend build me a black water tank holder, buying a new tank and then replumbing the water lines while everything is out. I will have to do a frame repair at the guy who is building my tank well, the curb side c channel is pretty bad. Reading your posts have helped in a lot of ways especially where to purchase items. Keep up the great work! I'm proud to have you as fellow Airstreamer!
Thank you so much! When I started this project almost 2 years ago I knew nothing about Airstream restoration. Now I know how to buck rivets, differences in aluminum alloys, how to MIG weld, and so much more. Mainly from the people of these forums. So kind and willing to help (even if it hurts a little). I am not a shy person. I believe in asking questions if you want answers. I am so grateful to all who have helped me, its nice to be able to give back. It is a little funny when someone says they learned something from me. Crazy! If you need more detailed pics check out my blog. I usually upload more pics there.
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Old 02-02-2012, 01:21 PM   #255
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While I have the rear end apart I am going to replace the old copper gas lines with new black pipe, and a new switch valve. I was lucky enough that when I bought the AS it had the 30 gal aluminum tanks. It looks like all the lines run outside the skin underneath so it shouldn't be to hard to replace. I will have to buy or rent a pipe threader though. Wish me luck.
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Old 02-02-2012, 02:14 PM   #256
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While I have the rear end apart I am going to replace the old copper gas lines with new black pipe, and a new switch valve. I was lucky enough that when I bought the AS it had the 30 gal aluminum tanks. It looks like all the lines run outside the skin underneath so it shouldn't be to hard to replace. I will have to buy or rent a pipe threader though. Wish me luck.
Isn't copper better for LP? lucky for me my friend is a plumber and can help me with the LP, water and drains. Good luck!
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Old 02-02-2012, 02:21 PM   #257
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Not sure on this one, seems like they use it on all new home construction, the only thing I can think of being a problem is the rigidity of the pipe vs copper tubing. Will have to look into this more I think.
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Old 02-02-2012, 04:14 PM   #258
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Not sure on this one, seems like they use it on all new home construction, the only thing I can think of being a problem is the rigidity of the pipe vs copper tubing. Will have to look into this more I think.
As a heating contractor, we mostly use copper(miles every year), 25yrs ago steel pipe was more the norm but is more time consuming to install and usually has more joints to leak. Unless the line is somewhere it could be damaged I would use copper with what they call around my area as heavy or forged flair nuts, don't use the thin cone shaped ones as they can crack and are against code to use in our area.
Here is a picture of the two types, most hardware stores should have them: Flare nut with JY4422 products, buy Flare nut with JY4422 products from alibaba.com One more thing is copper should be installed so there are no joints that are not accessible, make sure to leak check all of your lines when done, that first voyage would not be as much fun if it involved a big bang
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Old 02-03-2012, 10:12 AM   #259
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As a heating contractor, we mostly use copper(miles every year), 25yrs ago steel pipe was more the norm but is more time consuming to install and usually has more joints to leak. Unless the line is somewhere it could be damaged I would use copper with what they call around my area as heavy or forged flair nuts, don't use the thin cone shaped ones as they can crack and are against code to use in our area.
Here is a picture of the two types, most hardware stores should have them: Flare nut with JY4422 products, buy Flare nut with JY4422 products from alibaba.com One more thing is copper should be installed so there are no joints that are not accessible, make sure to leak check all of your lines when done, that first voyage would not be as much fun if it involved a big bang
I agree, copper is pretty resilient stuff. Even the LP lines I removed looked to be in decent shape after 45 years of neglect. I also believe it is best to have all the joints under the trailer. You don't want gas leaking inside the belly pan. I believe that propane is heavier than air and will sink and dissipate.
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Old 02-03-2012, 11:51 AM   #260
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I believe that propane is heavier than air and will sink and dissipate.
Correctimundo. Propane is 150% the density of air. It will sink. If it is a small leak out of a fitting, it will only be noticeable by the ethyl mercaptan smell. If a catastrophic failure occurs, it will probably do a pretty poor job of dispersing given how low to the ground it already is. Then you will have a low vapor cloud that will find an ignition source and turn your Memorial Day trip into the Fourth of July...



My impression of the black iron v. copper: the advantage of using black iron for the main header, and then teeing off to copper, is that it provides more rigidity in the case of a foreign object on the road, i.e. "Oh golly, something must have bumped up into my undercarriage".

While copper would smush (technical term), the black iron would hopefully do a little bit better. Some of my 50 year old copper lines, while intact, were definitely "smushed". Just my guess/ understanding/ opinion of the black iron advantage. (although I still might just do 100% copper).
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Old 02-03-2012, 02:20 PM   #261
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Correctimundo. Propane is 150% the density of air. It will sink. If it is a small leak out of a fitting, it will only be noticeable by the ethyl mercaptan smell. If a catastrophic failure occurs, it will probably do a pretty poor job of dispersing given how low to the ground it already is. Then you will have a low vapor cloud that will find an ignition source and turn your Memorial Day trip into the Fourth of July...



My impression of the black iron v. copper: the advantage of using black iron for the main header, and then teeing off to copper, is that it provides more rigidity in the case of a foreign object on the road, i.e. "Oh golly, something must have bumped up into my undercarriage".

While copper would smush (technical term), the black iron would hopefully do a little bit better. Some of my 50 year old copper lines, while intact, were definitely "smushed". Just my guess/ understanding/ opinion of the black iron advantage. (although I still might just do 100% copper).
I don't believe that you are suppose to connect copper to steel. Something about electrolysis, right?
I would also think that copper would also be better in the flexibility dept. Oh well I have many threads to read before I even get involved in those debates! I'm just tryin to stay focused on my project of the moment the windows. If I get too far ahead of myself my A.D.D. gets the best of me.
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Old 02-03-2012, 03:19 PM   #262
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I don't believe that you are suppose to connect copper to steel. Something about electrolysis, right?
I would also think that copper would also be better in the flexibility dept. Oh well I have many threads to read before I even get involved in those debates! I'm just tryin to stay focused on my project of the moment the windows. If I get too far ahead of myself my A.D.D. gets the best of me.
Electrolysis is a really good point. Don't know. I might ask my metallurgy/corrosion expert at work for his thoughts.

And as for the ADD, I know what you mean. My objective is supposed to be the bed an learning to make cabinets, but I keep thinking of doing the propane and water systems.
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Old 02-03-2012, 06:08 PM   #263
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Electrolysis is a really good point. Don't know. I might ask my metallurgy/corrosion expert at work for his thoughts.

And as for the ADD, I know what you mean. My objective is supposed to be the bed an learning to make cabinets, but I keep thinking of doing the propane and water systems.
Electrolysis is not to much of a problem, brass connectors and adapters are used to hook up the copper. I will be running all of my gas lines internally but no concealed joints, I don't like the idea of the lines exposed to road debris or ??. Even if the lines run underneath you still have many joints inside so why not keep them all out of harms way? If the lines were underneath you could hit some and not know it and have a leak created inside, more likely a problem IMHO. Pressure test before using system and soap and water on final connections, if pressure testing with air pressure don't put excessive pressure on the appliances.

And as for the A.D.D., I know what you mean. I think it is very common with all of us here
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Old 02-03-2012, 09:55 PM   #264
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Windows are a lot of work, period! Going on six days, ten windows. Broke two more frames trying to clean out what looked like painters caulk So I have three windows left to clean, replace glass, and replace glazing. Hope finish next week. Hope that is.....
Hey Jav,
I read this post and have had it in my head constantly ever since. The hot knife through plastic is King Dingleing! I have been working on '66 Safari windows for what seems like months now. Then, last weekend, we were out rummaging through all the antique and random stuff stores here and I saw something that I knew right away I had to have! Here are some pics of it.
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It was made in West Germany. It is the King of King Dingleings! A moulding cutter. Makes me happier'n a little pig scratchin' its a$$ on a board fence.
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Old 02-04-2012, 09:39 AM   #265
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Hey Jav,
I read this post and have had it in my head constantly ever since. The hot knife through plastic is King Dingleing! I have been working on '66 Safari windows for what seems like months now. Then, last weekend, we were out rummaging through all the antique and random stuff stores here and I saw something that I knew right away I had to have! Here are some pics of it.
Attachment 150237Attachment 150236
It was made in West Germany. It is the King of King Dingleings! A moulding cutter. Makes me happier'n a little pig scratchin' its a$$ on a board fence.
What tha...!! That sir is a score right there! It would have come in handy when I still had moulding to cut. Well I actually have two windows left, broke some glass trying to set it in the butal tape
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Old 02-04-2012, 10:39 AM   #266
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That is a very cool tool! I have to confess that after 18 years of cutting wood to 45 degrees, I just wing it, not saying close enough is good enough but I can wing it better than most can use a miter gauge to line it up. The miters at the corners are actually easy because the frame lines you up.
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