On 3/3/12 I purchased a 1965 20' Globetrotter to build from the frame up. The PO has removed all interior cabinets, appliances, and tanks.
It simply is just a shell, minus one rear floor board. ( Thanks PO for gutting it for me)
Windows are in decent condition, although 3 have been caulked and 1 is missing. But still, not bad hardware. I have an original rear electric roof vent.... anybody want it?
The PO replaced the curbside front lower exterior skin, but it is not complete. After the partial install it was dented. In addition the road side lower exterior panel also has a minor dent.
At this point I have the front right lower interior skin removed, and the center lower skin removed, exposing the lower C-channel rail (I think this is what it's called). I have marked the front floor board up with a square to get measurements. I also have marked all bolt holes and stringers (vertical C-channel). I have began digging out the elevator bolts 36" south of the front wall. My technique has been to use a 1 1/4" hole saw bit with the center drill bit taken out ( I hacked sawed it off). So I'm basically using just the hole saw part, it doughnuts right over the bolt.
I did notice that the upper front interior dome cap (fiberglass with cabinet) sits about 4-6" lower that the front exterior lower curbside panel top row.
Can you buck rivets behind th the upper interior front panel?
Also, I've used a multi tool from Sears to get under the C-channel and hack off the bolts bolting the Lower C-channel to the floor.
Question, Do I have to remove the exterior lower panel lowest row rivets (or the lowest row of rivets around the whole trailer for that matter) to remove the floor board?
I am doing a complete floor replacement, frame resto with POR15, 5/8" marine ply (need suggestions for sealing edges/bottom, as I will leave belly off). I will be installing a new grey water tank (wondering about grey tank that a little... what is the largest that can fit in frame?
The belly pan will be my next move, just didn't have time in the evening, wanted to work inside the trailer at night!
Hope you'll follow this thread, as it may take a while!!!!!
Redsled, We have just finished a shell on floor replacement in our 65 Safari. I removed all lower inslide wall panels to get to the C-channel. We just slightly flaired the outside walls to install the floor panel. Before we installed each floor panel we sealed the marine plywood (top, bottom and all edges) with an poly.deck/porch paint. I also installed a 25 gal. gray water tank and a new 15 gal black tank. The gray tank fit behind the axel.
Right now I have rebuilt and refinish all the original cabinets and have installed them, except the dinnette area. That is the next project.
I have attached a few pictures. The first picture shows the gray tank installed behind the axel prior to the new floor being installed. The next two pictures show the finished floor, and a picture of the floor in progress. The last picture is the underside of the trailer showing the gray tank.
OOoh This is gonna be good. The windows are pretty tough, just be glad you dont own a 64. I just completed a shell off. I am at the insulation phase. Check out my thread.
Redsled, We have just finished a shell on floor replacement in our 65 Safari. I removed all lower inslide wall panels to get to the C-channel. We just slightly flaired the outside walls to install the floor panel. Before we installed each floor panel we sealed the marine plywood (top, bottom and all edges) with an poly.deck/porch paint. I also installed a 25 gal. gray water tank and a new 15 gal black tank. The gray tank fit behind the axel.
Wow, thanks for those... that looks incredible. Just what I'm going for.
Where did you get your 25gal. grey Tank?
What holds it in place?
Will you go back with a belly pan? If not will you protect the gray tank somehow?
Do you think you could drive the trailer with just the lower interior removed? I have to take it to a guy to help with my door & vents, and am wondering about integrity while driving with interior panels removed.
Do you have a link to your rebuild? would love to follow
OOoh This is gonna be good. The windows are pretty tough, just be glad you dont own a 64. I just completed a shell off. I am at the insulation phase. Check out my thread.
Yeah, I have been following yours, it's coming along very nicely. I think I'm going to veer away from the exterior work.... not that I don't want to get into riveting and all that, but I have a guy who can do 2 panels for me, and he is going to show me as well so I don't screw it up and waste money.
I would love to, but I'm not quite the "tool hoarder" my wife will let me be.
Aaahh, choose your battles. (LOL)
The good thing is once I learn I can do the work next time, as I also have a '58 18' Traveler I'll do next.
However, I do have some questions.
What did you seal your exterior skins on the INSIDE with? alot of people seems to be using something black in color.
Also, how thick was the reflectix insulation you installed? Did you put one on the exterior (inside) and one layer on the outside of the interior (creating a dead air space so to speak)?
Keep up the hard work, lookin good!
Thanks in advance,
Yeah, I have been following yours, it's coming along very nicely. I think I'm going to veer away from the exterior work.... not that I don't want to get into riveting and all that, but I have a guy who can do 2 panels for me, and he is going to show me as well so I don't screw it up and waste money.
I would love to, but I'm not quite the "tool hoarder" my wife will let me be.
Aaahh, choose your battles. (LOL)
The good thing is once I learn I can do the work next time, as I also have a '58 18' Traveler I'll do next.
However, I do have some questions.
What did you seal your exterior skins on the INSIDE with? alot of people seems to be using something black in color.
Also, how thick was the reflectix insulation you installed? Did you put one on the exterior (inside) and one layer on the outside of the interior (creating a dead air space so to speak)?
Keep up the hard work, lookin good!
Thanks in advance,
TIMK
I'm stalking you now.
The black stuff you are seeing is probably the sealant that was sprayed on at the factory. I used a Henry brand elastomeric roofing sealant. It is very gummy, applies thick for extra protection, and flexes with the trailer (temperature and shear stresses). Many others just use TONS of TremPro 635 and spread it on the seams.
I believe the reflectix insulation is 3/8". Being up in NorCal and near the Sierras where you actually get cooler temperatures, you might want the double layer like you mention. There is something to be said about keeping it off the actual outer shell though, and using spacers followed by Reflectix, followed by spacers, followed by a final layer. That simply allows any leaks to run the water down the insulation directly and to the floor so you can catch it faster. Otherwise it could get caught between the foil and the metal and go anywhere before it actually gets to the inside of the trailer in a visible spot. This would not only be more difficult to catch, but would mislead you as to the leak location.
Yeah, I have been following yours, it's coming along very nicely. I think I'm going to veer away from the exterior work.... not that I don't want to get into riveting and all that, but I have a guy who can do 2 panels for me, and he is going to show me as well so I don't screw it up and waste money.
I would love to, but I'm not quite the "tool hoarder" my wife will let me be.
Aaahh, choose your battles. (LOL)
The good thing is once I learn I can do the work next time, as I also have a '58 18' Traveler I'll do next.
However, I do have some questions.
What did you seal your exterior skins on the INSIDE with? alot of people seems to be using something black in color.
Also, how thick was the reflectix insulation you installed? Did you put one on the exterior (inside) and one layer on the outside of the interior (creating a dead air space so to speak)?
Keep up the hard work, lookin good!
Thanks in advance,
TIMK
Yes choose your battles. I learned a lot in the process, mostly what I need to do next time
If you have someone that is experienced with riveting and they are willing to show you, take it. I taught myself from reading here and YouTube. The leaning curve isn't that steep compared to say welding or electrical. But you need a good compressor, air drill, rivet gun etc. Tools are very important!
About the insulation. I went with Prodex instead of foil bubble. After comparing the two side by side I am confidant I made the right choice. It is about 5mm thick and two layers will give an R 21 value. I used 1/4" polyiso strips and used sure bond (from the prodex site) to glue the strips to the inner shell.
Everything I have read about sealing seams from the inside of the trailer seems to be futile. I am however going to seal everything (seams rivets etc) from the outside. I may try to use some spray rubber on the inside just for giggles though...
We purchased the gray tank from Ronco Plastics, Inc. There were great people to work with. You can find their information online. We used 1 1/4" angle iron for the gray tank braces. We purchased old bed frames from thrifts stores and cut them down for the angle iron.
I have attached another picture of the gray tank frame.
The belly pan will go up to the tanks, we don't think there will be a problem. We have installed a new axel and that has raised the trailer quite a bit from the original height.
I don't know about moving the trailer with the belly pan off....
No blog, just postings on the forum from time to time.
We purchased the gray tank from Ronco Plastics, Inc. There were great people to work with. You can find their information online. We used 1 1/4" angle iron for the gray tank braces. We purchased old bed frames from thrifts stores and cut them down for the angle iron.
I have attached another picture of the gray tank frame.
The belly pan will go up to the tanks, we don't think there will be a problem. We have installed a new axel and that has raised the trailer quite a bit from the original height.
I don't know about moving the trailer with the belly pan off....
No blog, just postings on the forum from time to time.
I'll check Ronco out, thanks!
I was thinking driving with lower interior skins removed (the belly pan I could care less about). Bed frame rails... that's a super idea. It looked like your tank sat in some sort of box (maybe an aluminum box for protection or something), am I right?
Yes choose your battles. I learned a lot in the process, mostly what I need to do next time
If you have someone that is experienced with riveting and they are willing to show you, take it. I taught myself from reading here and YouTube. The leaning curve isn't that steep compared to say welding or electrical. But you need a good compressor, air drill, rivet gun etc. Tools are very important!
About the insulation. I went with Prodex instead of foil bubble. After comparing the two side by side I am confidant I made the right choice. It is about 5mm thick and two layers will give an R 21 value. I used 1/4" polyiso strips and used sure bond (from the prodex site) to glue the strips to the inner shell.
Everything I have read about sealing seams from the inside of the trailer seems to be futile. I am however going to seal everything (seams rivets etc) from the outside. I may try to use some spray rubber on the inside just for giggles though...
Ok, so I've given in... here is my list of things to buy to start this, tell me if I'm missing something for the first 3-6 months of work. (BTW, I do have a pretty good assortment of tools, including air compressors, just about every hand tool, grinders, drills, air drill, multi tool, sawall and what not, but anywho.
1) Pnuematic buck rivet gun (probably going with kit from VTS)
2) Blind rivet tool (again probably just getting from VTS so I can get the olympic shaver)
3) Trempro 635
4) Aircraft stripper
5) organic vapor respirator (3M)
6) 3000 RPM angle grinder (using Insideouts/perfect polish method for polishing with 12" cotton wheels from caswell and/or osbourne from fastenal
7) #30,#21 
 drill bit (already have)
8) Gallons? of mineral spirits
This should get me going to get the floor out, strip the outside so I can polish the seems and seal, and remove all interior panels to replace the insulations and check for roof leaks.
Now, will that said, is there anything I should pick up that may be "handy" down the road.
Mind you, I will be learning and researching as I go.
The black stuff you are seeing is probably the sealant that was sprayed on at the factory. I used a Henry brand elastomeric roofing sealant. It is very gummy, applies thick for extra protection, and flexes with the trailer (temperature and shear stresses). Many others just use TONS of TremPro 635 and spread it on the seams.
I believe the reflectix insulation is 3/8". Being up in NorCal and near the Sierras where you actually get cooler temperatures, you might want the double layer like you mention. There is something to be said about keeping it off the actual outer shell though, and using spacers followed by Reflectix, followed by spacers, followed by a final layer. That simply allows any leaks to run the water down the insulation directly and to the floor so you can catch it faster. Otherwise it could get caught between the foil and the metal and go anywhere before it actually gets to the inside of the trailer in a visible spot. This would not only be more difficult to catch, but would mislead you as to the leak location.
Just some thoughts. Good Luck!!
It looked like you glued/attached your insulation to the interior side of your exterior panels... right? I guess I lost you about "There is something to be said about keeping it off the actual outer shell though".
It seems that most people are using a spray adhesive to attach there insulation to the interior of their exterior shells, they overlap say 3-4 inches at the seams, so yes the water would run down, but then it sounds like you put in spacers and then another layer, to create a dead air space, adding to the "R" value.
Definetly going two layers, the Sierras will get a little chilly for sure.
Anywho, I'll do a little more research on the site.
Stalkings cool, that makes me feel like I'm not alone in this.
Heya Redsled88, You are sooooooo not alone here.
EVERYTHING you need to know is somewhere in the forums.
I wish you the very best of luck with your resto. I will only be able to get started on mine when I have finished building a house next door for my daughter. My husband keeps saying "NO NEW JOBS!" yikes. I was expecting to get started on my A/S this spring but no such luck. I am collecting tools, parts and info, so I can jump right in when the time comes.
I will be following your progress avidly, studying your pics and empathizing with your frustrations.
Leonie
__________________
TV: 2007 Jeep GC Laredo diesel
Toy: 1995 Jeep YJ
Experience is what you get from not having it when you needed it.
It looked like you glued/attached your insulation to the interior side of your exterior panels... right? I guess I lost you about "There is something to be said about keeping it off the actual outer shell though".
It seems that most people are using a spray adhesive to attach there insulation to the interior of their exterior shells, they overlap say 3-4 inches at the seams, so yes the water would run down, but then it sounds like you put in spacers and then another layer, to create a dead air space, adding to the "R" value.
Definetly going two layers, the Sierras will get a little chilly for sure.
Anywho, I'll do a little more research on the site.
Stalkings cool, that makes me feel like I'm not alone in this.
Thanks in advance,
TIMK
Sorry, I meant to keep the actual foil off of the outer shell if at all possible. I adhered the R-max foam strips to the exterior shell, then the bubble foil insulation to the foam strips, so that any leaks will run down through the segmented styrafoam sections, through little weep channels that I cut in each one, and then do the C-channel area where the floor has three coats of resin and two to three of linear polyurethane so that it hopefully won't absorb right away. My theory there was that I wanted to actually see any leaks, and figure out where they were coming from rather than letting the water run along the insulation into weird and possibly hidden places. However, this is all just my opinion and not at all scientifically proven....
Additionally, it's a minor item, but make sure you add TONS of rags to your list for cleaning up vulkem and wiping off polish (mineral spirits applicators). I would also buy way more rivets than you think you'll need. You can always save them for later, but I must have done 2 repeated orders of bucked rivets, 4 or so different orders of Olympics, and I've probably dashed over to big box stores for pop rivets 2-3 times as well.
Heya Redsled88, You are sooooooo not alone here.
EVERYTHING you need to know is somewhere in the forums.
I wish you the very best of luck with your resto. I will only be able to get started on mine when I have finished building a house next door for my daughter. My husband keeps saying "NO NEW JOBS!" yikes. I was expecting to get started on my A/S this spring but no such luck. I am collecting tools, parts and info, so I can jump right in when the time comes.
I will be following your progress avidly, studying your pics and empathizing with your frustrations.
Leonie
I'll try to get some good pics of the outside of the trailer today if possible.
I've just been busy reading, plus kids and all. (2 little ones)
Sorry, I meant to keep the actual foil off of the outer shell if at all possible. I adhered the R-max foam strips to the exterior shell, then the bubble foil insulation to the foam strips, so that any leaks will run down through the segmented styrafoam sections, through little weep channels that I cut in each one, and then do the C-channel area where the floor has three coats of resin and two to three of linear polyurethane so that it hopefully won't absorb right away. My theory there was that I wanted to actually see any leaks, and figure out where they were coming from rather than letting the water run along the insulation into weird and possibly hidden places. However, this is all just my opinion and not at all scientifically proven....
Additionally, it's a minor item, but make sure you add TONS of rags to your list for cleaning up vulkem and wiping off polish (mineral spirits applicators). I would also buy way more rivets than you think you'll need. You can always save them for later, but I must have done 2 repeated orders of bucked rivets, 4 or so different orders of Olympics, and I've probably dashed over to big box stores for pop rivets 2-3 times as well.
Sure, rivets would help. Plus I almost forgot Cleco's and cleco pliers.
That would help. Did you find that sometimes when you went to install your interior, that if you installed say a 1/8" pop rivet and it was sloppy you would replace with a 5/32" to fill the hole?
Did you use stainless 3/16" pop rivets to hang your overhead cabinet (looks awesome by the way, didn't know the overhead cabinet was aluminum, came out SWEET polished)?
Rags, rags, rags, where are those rags, oh yeah I'm out of gym socks, and no more left over tee-shirts, sweatshirts, old pants, so definetly need more.
Sorry, I meant to keep the actual foil off of the outer shell if at all possible. I adhered the R-max foam strips to the exterior shell, then the bubble foil insulation to the foam strips, so that any leaks will run down through the segmented styrafoam sections, through little weep channels that I cut in each one, and then do the C-channel area where the floor has three coats of resin and two to three of linear polyurethane so that it hopefully won't absorb right away. My theory there was that I wanted to actually see any leaks, and figure out where they were coming from rather than letting the water run along the insulation into weird and possibly hidden places. However, this is all just my opinion and not at all scientifically proven....
Additionally, it's a minor item, but make sure you add TONS of rags to your list for cleaning up vulkem and wiping off polish (mineral spirits applicators). I would also buy way more rivets than you think you'll need. You can always save them for later, but I must have done 2 repeated orders of bucked rivets, 4 or so different orders of Olympics, and I've probably dashed over to big box stores for pop rivets 2-3 times as well.
Ahhh, that makes sense now... I think I just needed a little clarification.
TIMK
Sure, rivets would help. Plus I almost forgot Cleco's and cleco pliers.
That would help. Did you find that sometimes when you went to install your interior, that if you installed say a 1/8" pop rivet and it was sloppy you would replace with a 5/32" to fill the hole?
Did you use stainless 3/16" pop rivets to hang your overhead cabinet (looks awesome by the way, didn't know the overhead cabinet was aluminum, came out SWEET polished)?
Rags, rags, rags, where are those rags, oh yeah I'm out of gym socks, and no more left over tee-shirts, sweatshirts, old pants, so definetly need more.
Thanks Chaos!
TIMK
Yeah, definitely lots of 1/8" getting filled with 5/32". Especially on the places that didn't have any rib support backing it up. I didn't have to use any 3/16" SS rivets on the cabinet. I just reattached as I found it. GIven how much stuff was in there with the original fasteners, and how little of stuff I plan to put in there, I'm not too concerned about needing more support for weight. I did have to pull quite a few wide flange 3/16" aluminum rivets that I used on the belly pan. ALL of those had pulled through the pan and had to be drilled out, so wide flanges had to be used on all of them.
Ok, so I've given in... here is my list of things to buy to start this, tell me if I'm missing something for the first 3-6 months of work. (BTW, I do have a pretty good assortment of tools, including air compressors, just about every hand tool, grinders, drills, air drill, multi tool, sawall and what not, but anywho.
1) Pnuematic buck rivet gun (probably going with kit from VTS)
2) Blind rivet tool (again probably just getting from VTS so I can get the olympic shaver)
3) Trempro 635
4) Aircraft stripper
5) organic vapor respirator (3M)
6) 3000 RPM angle grinder (using Insideouts/perfect polish method for polishing with 12" cotton wheels from caswell and/or osbourne from fastenal
7) #30,#21 
 drill bit (already have)
8) Gallons? of mineral spirits
This should get me going to get the floor out, strip the outside so I can polish the seems and seal, and remove all interior panels to replace the insulations and check for roof leaks.
Now, will that said, is there anything I should pick up that may be "handy" down the road.
Mind you, I will be learning and researching as I go.
Thanks in advance,
TIMK
I think you have it all pretty much. Just stock up on drill bits and rivets you will need more than you think!
Caswell is the place for your polishing stuff, the tec at Inland Rv told me about that place. Good luck and we will be learning from eachother.
Well, it's been raining for 4 days, and some amazing Lightning last night.
Kirkwood got dumped on, so I let my wife go for the day and I get Sunday to play.
After 4 days of studying during the rains, I finally found an RV place an hour away (Vintage Transport in Placerville, Ca)
So, I'm taking the kids and were loading up on supplies.
I did finally find some Kleen Strip Aircraft Paint Remover (took about 3 days, but worth it at $60..... O'reilly's wants $134/gallon for the low odor kind... no way I'm paying that)
I'm also ordering some vent caps from Mobile Home Depot, found a thread where they have all aluminum caps for grey/black/drain vents.
Should be nice.
I did want to pick somones brain on some things... here goes!
1) When installing an exterior panel, and you use trempro 635 to seal, how long do you wait before removing the excess sealant? Do you wait for it to tack up, or just remove immediatly after installing panel? Are you using Naptha to remove?
or will something else like mineral spirits work?
2) Has anyone ever thought of putting in tiny little drip holes in the bottom of the C-channel attaching shell to floor with say a tube extending below the floor, so if you did have a leak it would eventually flow to the drip tube and drain out? Maybe put one in each interior panel section Lower floor C-chanel or two?
3) Has anyone ever driven their coach with no interior panels?
If so how far, and how fast were you going?
4) Is anyone using a silcone style adhesive on top of the frame (AFTER POR 15) between the floor sheeting and the frame to reduce "squeaking"?
That's all for now,
See ya'll on Sunday with good weather and finally some pics!!
1) Use Trempro/Vulkem 116 from Fastenal for panel seams. It is a slow cure sealant. You need time with panel whorl
2) Yes. I did it a little differently with some 5/32" holes then tape up the bottom and fill with West epoxy, let cure then drill out with an 1/8" drill bit.
3)No. Not a good idea.
4)I only use silicone in one area, but not there. I used a thin layer of 3M 540 polyurethane sealant on the top of the frame/crossmembers/outriggers before the floor sheets went in on my '72 Ambassador.
Good luck with the work this weekend! Post more pics!
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