Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-31-2009, 07:04 PM   #29
Rivet Master
 
silverleeper's Avatar
 
1967 22' Safari
1960 Caravel
Edmonds , Washington
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,499
Images: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post
I have a about 1/4 inch bigger gap than the floor needed. Not sure what this means. I'll let the pics speak for themselves.
Attachment 93240Attachment 93239
From what I see it is nothing to worry about. Should fix itself when you install the new floor.

Go have a good New Year and worry about this latter...
__________________

__________________
Lee

1973 F-250 4X4 390
1965 Chevy Suburban 454
AIR 6030
WBCCI 4258
TCT

silverleeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2010, 10:50 AM   #30
Rivet Master
 
Minno's Avatar

 
1972 31' Sovereign
Lexington , Minnesota
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,323
Hey Beyond,

Lee is right. Once you install the new plywood, if you still have a gap, use a bottle jack under the rear end of the frame to raise it to make contact and eliminate the gap. Then, when you bolt the floor to the frame, and rivet the shell to the c-channel (if you need to re-rivet it back together), the shell will hold up the rear frame. What you’re seeing is the typical rear end separation. There are several threads on how to reinforce the frame to shell connection to help ensure this doesn’t happen again. Do a search on rear end separation.

When we did Little Girl’s rear end, we discovered that a previous repair had failed, so we replaced an angled piece of steel with angle aluminum (1/8” thick – fun to bend to the correct angle! ), and reinforced the rear c-channel connection a bit. Take a look at post #42 in our thread: http://www.airforums.com/forums/f185/little-girl-refurb-50967-3.html.

Chris
__________________

__________________
Minno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2010, 01:45 PM   #31
Rivet Master
 
VIKING's Avatar
 
1955 22' Flying Cloud
Boulder Creek , California
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,177
A big part of the rear-end seperation is due to a lack of connection from the frame to the flooring around the back. This leaves only a couple of 1/4" bolts that actually connect the C-channel to the frame and floor. the rest of the connection is due to wood screws going through the C-channel into the plywood only.
I added an angle iron piece to my frame on each side that follows the curve of the shell around the back corners. It's welded to the last full-length outrigger at its front, and to the frame rail at the back, as well as one intermediate short outrigger. Now my bolts all go through the C-channel, wood flooring, and this angle piece at the rear end, which is now part of the frame. The lack of a piece like this, along with the issues of water infiltration at the rear bumper are a major cause of rear-end seperation.
Rich the Viking
__________________
VIKING is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2010, 02:20 PM   #32
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,499
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by VIKING View Post
A big part of the rear-end seperation is due to a lack of connection from the frame to the flooring around the back. This leaves only a couple of 1/4" bolts that actually connect the C-channel to the frame and floor. the rest of the connection is due to wood screws going through the C-channel into the plywood only.
I added an angle iron piece to my frame on each side that follows the curve of the shell around the back corners. It's welded to the last full-length outrigger at its front, and to the frame rail at the back, as well as one intermediate short outrigger. Now my bolts all go through the C-channel, wood flooring, and this angle piece at the rear end, which is now part of the frame. The lack of a piece like this, along with the issues of water infiltration at the rear bumper are a major cause of rear-end seperation.
Rich the Viking
Rich.

You only solved 1/2 of the rear end separation problem.

The chassis/floor as an assembly, also wants to pull away from the shell.
Since the strength in an Airstream is in the shell, additional fasteners must be installed between the floor channel and the shell.

We suggest using 3/16 inch pop rivets and lots of the, such as every 2 to 3 inches, bith from the inside as well as the outside.

With that done, now the shell can supprt the chassis/floor assembly, with ease. Without that, the chassis/floor can still pull away from the shell.

The shell supports the frame, in monocoque type construction.

Andy
__________________
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2010, 03:53 PM   #33
Rivet Master
 
VIKING's Avatar
 
1955 22' Flying Cloud
Boulder Creek , California
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,177
Thanks Andy, I have not gotten to that step yet on mine. I have seen what you describe though. When I remove the rear rub rail trim I will add a bunch of rivets before I seal it up again. I suspect the shorter Airstreams don't have as much trouble with seperation, is that your experience? I hear mostly from people with 25'+ rigs having this issue. It suprised me to find my little old 22' Safari had this.

Rich the Viking
__________________
VIKING is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2010, 05:39 PM   #34
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,499
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by VIKING View Post
Thanks Andy. It suprised me to find my little old 22' Safari had this.

Rich the Viking
Not at all Rich.

I have seen, but not often, rear end separation, on 17 foot Caravels.

It all depends on how much abuse the trailer has been subjected to.

Strange as it may seen, the greatest source of abuse to an Airstream that caused rear end separation, is "lack oif proper running gear balance".

Yes, I know some owners claim traveling with full holding tanks. I have to disagree, because the separation also happens, when owners "very carefully", emptied the tank/tanks before getting back on the road.

When you see a rear end separation issue on an Airstream, without exception, if you very very carefully, examine the trailer, you will find evidence of vibration. Things such as worn out entrance door hinges, gooves in the striker bolt and/or pocket, missing rivets, inside and out especially in the underbelly, fatigue cracks in the shell and/or the frame, a polished surface where the window gaskets rest on the window frames, outriggers punching holes in the underbelly wrap, loose wiring connections, cupped tires, worn out axle/axles, and the list goes on and on.

Not always, but generally speaking, the longer the trailer, the sooner the rear end separation will occur, when the running gear is not properly balanced.

Any vibration, that is caused by the running gear, will multiply as it travels to the rear of the coach. Moment arm is the name of the issue.

As an example, move the small end of a crow bar, even 1/8 of an inch, and then observe how much the other end moves. You will see it moves much more, since the movement multiplies.

Same for vibration that starts at the wheels and then travels to the rear end of the trailer.

No one would ever dream of driving a tow vehicle, even without a trailer in tow, with unbalanced running gear. BUT amazingly, the vast majority of those same owners, never consider the trailer tires.

Unfortunately, finding a shop that can do the proper running gear balancing, is far and few between. Recent technology, has come up with balancing devices, that simply mount on the hub and drum, or rotors, along with the tire and wheel. Now, when the trailer is moving 25 to 30 MPH, the running gear, "within reason" is balanced. It is still wise, however, to properly balance the tire and wheels, which minimizes the job that the balancers are ask to do.

That type of balancer, has a huge positive effect on eliminating the return of rear end separation, or eliminating it from happeneing in the first place.

Of course, rebuilding the rear end, has it's challenges too, but if done properly, you can say "BYE BYE" to rear end separation, forever.

I would also point out, that the in field, "elephant ear" fix for rear end separation, is a short term fix, at best, but a fast negative fix on your pocket book.

Keep us Forum members, posted on the rebuild progress.

Andy
__________________
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-01-2010, 05:58 PM   #35
Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
 
Inland RV Center, In's Avatar
 
Corona , California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,499
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post
With all the help from everyone, I have made great strides (I think) since my last post. Today it rained pretty hard and with the inner skin off, and the insulation cleaned up, I was able to see the leaks that may pose a problem in the future. The usual suspects: windows, vents, and a few loose rivets. Seemed like the top row of rivets on the ceiling were letting in moisture but not real drops.
The floor is out, and the belly pan is down. I've got a pretty good gap of 'air' in the back just to the left of the back door. Noticed that between the frame, and the C-Channel, I have a about 1/4 inch bigger gap than the floor needed. Not sure what this means. I'll let the pics speak for themselves.
Attachment 93240Attachment 93239
Your phot shows a good example of rear end separation.

Leveling the frame, with the shell, before any fastening takes place, is the proper method of realinging, prior to repair.

Andy
__________________

__________________
Inland RV Center, In is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
1964, 1964 tradewind, floor repair, renovation


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1967 Tradewind Renovation SilverHoot 1959-69 Tradewind 247 12-05-2017 09:07 PM
1962 Tradewind - Renovation Epic 2333 1959-69 Tradewind 114 09-13-2015 11:06 PM
1964 Airstream Tradewind 24' single axle classic look eBay Watch Airstreams on eBay 0 05-24-2009 07:00 PM
AirStream Trailer 24' Vintage 1964 eBay Watch Airstreams on eBay 0 03-20-2009 02:40 PM
1964 24' tradewind land yacht kayaman Cabinets, Counter Tops & Furnishings 1 03-12-2009 10:38 AM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.