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Old 11-22-2006, 08:27 PM   #393
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Originally Posted by till
Wholy smokes!! That is one long list of curcuits.

I would recomend keeping it simple. I was going downthe same road when I had a reality check with the inside walls. I did not want to run that much wire through the walls. Just more to go wrong down the line. The coach has worked for 39+ years with three 110 and three 12 volt curcuits.

Just my two cents
Hahaha.. my trailer's electrical system was working when I took it apart and it had ONE 110v circuit and one 12 volt circuit. Kinda scary, actually....

While I agree that more isn't always better, I think I can keep it all straight. I just hope I'm not having that 16 year old drive syndrome where I think I know what I'm doing... before putting the interior skins back on I will have a professional electrician check it out all out.
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Old 11-22-2006, 09:09 PM   #394
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I got a WFCO 8900 series 55amp converter power center from Randy also.

I removed the circuit box located in the wardrobe area which was about in the center of the trailer and installed a juction box in its place to extend all 4 120V circuits forward then under the fridg floor backup thru the floor 7' foward under the sofa.

I put the WFCO at this location it is set about 8 back from the front of the trailier.

THen I had extend all the 12V wires back to the WFCO about 8'.

Now the power center in in the "Center" under the L shaped sofa.

THis would be a lot easier to understand with a pic

I'm also adding two 6V relocated off the tongue to a vented box under the sofa about 5' from the front.
This was done to lower the tongue weight and add two new 40G LP tanks in place of the 30's.

Adding the second battery doesn't add that much weight the old univolt was 45Lbs, 6lbs univolt cover box, vent screen & fuse panel.

This 4 day weekend is jam packed with a punch list to finish all the electric and a whole bunch of framing on the sofa and rear queen.

Am I having fun yet?
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Old 11-22-2006, 10:29 PM   #395
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Bob, your description actually makes perfect sense... I myself have thought about putting the power center up front so that running the circuits down either side could be done without a junction box, except where the wires go up to the cieling lights.

Speaking of wires... I just got back from Home Depot. I bought my 12/3 Romex, 14 gauge wire and some shallow gang boxes (and other stuff). Anyhow, like I said, I'm a totally newbie at this, so I have a (proabably stupid) question; why are there four wires in three wire Romex?
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Old 11-22-2006, 10:34 PM   #396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ankornuta
Bob, your description actually makes perfect sense... I myself have thought about putting the power center up front so that running the circuits down either side could be done without a junction box, except where the wires go up to the cieling lights.

Speaking of wires... I just got back from Home Depot. I bought my 12/3 Romex, 14 gauge wire and some shallow gang boxes (and other stuff). Anyhow, like I said, I'm a totally newbie at this, so I have a (proabably stupid) question; why are there four wires in three wire Romex?
Andy,

Because you purchased 12/3 with ground and not 12/2 with ground. The wire you purchased has black, red, white and bare copper, right? You can run two hot wires, black and red, with the one neutral, white. This is used when you need two circuits at the same location or to run a 220V circuit. Since you are running different circuits to different locations, you need 12/2 with ground, black, white and bare copper. The bare copper is your ground.

Anybody disagree, I am not an electrician.

Bill
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Old 11-22-2006, 11:12 PM   #397
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Originally Posted by ankornuta
The refrigerator that I'm looking at is a dometic, and I have somewhere in my notes that it will draw 14.1 amps.
Wow, what fridge is that one? I hope they don't all use that much. I just ran one 15amp circuit for the WFCO charger and the fridge today. I was not counting on the fridge using that much.

The WFCO at full load is 950w which is about 8 amps. That will leave about 5-6 amps for the fridge.

The dometic site is useless. I can't find any specs on the fridges there.

Quote:
Andy,

Because you purchased 12/3 with ground and not 12/2 with ground. The wire you purchased has black, red, white and bare copper, right? You can run two hot wires, black and red, with the one neutral, white. This is used when you need two circuits at the same location or to run a 220V circuit. Since you are running different circuits to different locations, you need 12/2 with ground, black, white and bare copper. The bare copper is your ground.

Anybody disagree, I am not an electrician.

Bill
I'm not an electrician either, and I agree with most everything. The only thing I don't think the 12-3 is so you can run two circuits to the same location using the same neutral. It just does not sound right to me since both 110v circuits are using the neutral for a return, it would have to carry twice the current load. 12-3 is for running switched circuits for lights, or two and three way switches.

Of course I could be wrong and may spark a multipage thread about AC wiring and totally de-railing the whole restoration thread!
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Old 11-22-2006, 11:31 PM   #398
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D'oh! Looks like you're right Tim, I found this on a DIY home-building website:

For example "12-2" first describes the thickness of the wire, being 12-gauge wire. The "2" says there are 2 service wires inside. That is a hot(black) wire and a neutral(white) wire. There is also a bare copper ground wire. I know that makes three wires in total, but the ground doesn't count. Why not? I don't know! We all just kind of go along with that one.

So, "12-3" says there is three wires in there. There is an extra hot(red) wire for three-way switches. I'll go over that too. See the pics. Most diagram-electrical-wiring circuits don't say Romex on the cables, don't worry about it.

Well, at least the 12/2 is less expensive. I'll see if Home Depot is open tomorrow so I can exchange my wire.
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Old 11-23-2006, 12:00 AM   #399
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Originally Posted by ankornuta
D'oh! Looks like you're right Tim, I found this on a DIY home-building website:

For example "12-2" first describes the thickness of the wire, being 12-gauge wire. The "2" says there are 2 service wires inside. That is a hot(black) wire and a neutral(white) wire. There is also a bare copper ground wire. I know that makes three wires in total, but the ground doesn't count. Why not? I don't know! We all just kind of go along with that one.

So, "12-3" says there is three wires in there. There is an extra hot(red) wire for three-way switches. I'll go over that too. See the pics. Most diagram-electrical-wiring circuits don't say Romex on the cables, don't worry about it.

Well, at least the 12/2 is less expensive. I'll see if Home Depot is open tomorrow so I can exchange my wire.
Andy,

It should say 12/3 or 12/2 w ground, at one time you could purchase 12/2 or 12/3 without ground and it was labeled just 12/2 or 12/3. I have not looked lately, but then you should use the grounded romex anyway. The only time I could possibly see using no ground is for a light fixture which doesn't have a ground. But why stock another type of romex, just don't use the ground. You may have noticed that each type of wire has a a different color outside, white, yellow, orange etc. This is to allow easy identification of the wire from a distance.

Bill
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Old 11-23-2006, 01:53 AM   #400
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Boy oh boy you guys ,don't give all that info then say your not an electrician.
I hope one of you guys know whats up on your wiring job there .i have all
original electrical system on my 60 trwnd, works just dandy ,Id be makin certain what the correct wire and installation ,grounds and all should be ,Im sure the jobs posted are going good but make sure of it. No room for a mistake here.

Scott
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Old 11-23-2006, 08:07 AM   #401
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Andy,

It should say 12/3 or 12/2 w ground, at one time you could purchase 12/2 or 12/3 without ground and it was labeled just 12/2 or 12/3. I have not looked lately, but then you should use the grounded romex anyway. The only time I could possibly see using no ground is for a light fixture which doesn't have a ground. But why stock another type of romex, just don't use the ground. You may have noticed that each type of wire has a a different color outside, white, yellow, orange etc. This is to allow easy identification of the wire from a distance.

Bill
Looks like you're correct Bill... pretty much everything out there is "with ground". Also, the 12/2 is white, the 12/3 is yellow... even the "easy pull-out" boxes the stuff comes in are different colors.
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Old 11-23-2006, 08:09 AM   #402
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Originally Posted by scottanlily
Boy oh boy you guys ,don't give all that info then say your not an electrician.
I hope one of you guys know whats up on your wiring job there .i have all
original electrical system on my 60 trwnd, works just dandy ,Id be makin certain what the correct wire and installation ,grounds and all should be ,Im sure the jobs posted are going good but make sure of it. No room for a mistake here.

Scott
LOL... thanks to everyone's help and guidance and some additional reading, I think I've got it all figured out now. Like I've said before, this is all pretty new to me, but I'm familiar with the concepts from classes in electronics cicuitry and so on.

But, like anyone should do (IMO), before I call this project "done" I am going to have a professional electrician inspect everything.
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Old 11-23-2006, 11:57 AM   #403
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I finished getting everything out of the trailer this morning, and I finally took off the interior front end-cap. Disturbingly however, after doing this, the front door won't close now. It's too tight by about 1/4" at the bottom. I'm wondering if the end cap was holding the shape of the body just enough to allow the door to close... Hmmm...

Well, no more time for the trailer now, I have to head to my grandparent's house for Thanksgiving dinner. Happy Thanksgiving everyone
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Old 11-23-2006, 07:36 PM   #404
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You guys have my pumpkin pie in a tizzy. 12/2 which has three wires, 12/3 which has four wires. Next thing it'll be 12/4 with 5 wires. I should have another piece of pie and maybe a turkey sammich to settle my stomach. I was just going to run a daisy chain series of frayed extension cords ducttaped to the walls. Bad idea I guess.

I'll just wait to see what Andrew does and copy it. Bring notes!
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Old 11-23-2006, 07:55 PM   #405
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your trailer's long enough to have 2 switches for the roof lights! i thought a bout it in our 18... but well, i could just turn to the right and hit the first switch, so single runs for me it is!

jp
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Old 11-24-2006, 11:28 AM   #406
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I was just going to run a daisy chain series of frayed extension cords ducttaped to the walls. Bad idea I guess.
LOL... that would be rad
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