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Old 04-11-2006, 03:20 PM   #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 66Overlander
It seems that on most trailers I've seen, they keep the gray water lines above the floor as much as possible (behind cabinets and such) until they get near the tank. I don't know if it'll be an issue, but you'll probably be sloshing water back and forth in those long horizontal lines if you travel with the gray tank anywhere near full. Depending upon how you run the traps and such I wonder if there could be any slosh out back into sinks, or especially the shower pan.

This is just a thought, but I have no personal experience plumbing a trailer to confirm if this could really be an issue or not.
That's an interesting point. It sounds like I might have to put a plug in the shower drain if that happens. There really was no way I could put a P-trap in the shower drain and still run the lines above board unless I raised the shower significantly, but then it would start to get in the way of the bathroom cabinets, etc.

My trailer has a very weird layout. It's proven difficult with the plumbing.
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Old 04-11-2006, 03:23 PM   #184
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Andrew,

Regarding putting 300+ lbs on the tongue

I haven't done the math, but is sounds a little over the top. I'd be worried about rotational momentum that far from the axle. I think you would move the center of rotation too far forward.

What will this do? I think it might have a tendency to push the rear of your tow vehicle, especially in curves.

Think what would happen if you had that much weight on the rear bumper. What you have is the same inertial effect, a lot of weight on a long moment arm several feet from the center of gravity. The difference is that the front end of the trailer can't swing free. It is pinned to the TV by the hitch. So part of the angular acceleration goes into your tow vehicle.

I don't know if this helps you or not.


On the plumbing, did you think about putting a check valve in the shower drain line? Here's what I did, but it has not been road tested yet.
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Old 04-11-2006, 03:33 PM   #185
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What are you going to hang the belly pan on?

I notice in your plumbing photos that you have replaced a number of the cross-members with angle iron at the top only. What do you intend to hand your belly pan on?

Malcolm
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Old 04-11-2006, 03:38 PM   #186
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I feel like such a traitor. I have sold the 58 to a friend who got me interested in Airstreams in the 80's. I guess I really am not a silver person. I want another, longer Argosy. Cream is in my blood I guess. Bertha will stay here until May, when she will go to Illinois to be restored. She will have a great home, with a great man.
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Old 04-11-2006, 04:29 PM   #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malconium
I notice in your plumbing photos that you have replaced a number of the cross-members with angle iron at the top only. What do you intend to hand your belly pan on?

Malcolm
I'm glad you asked that! I actually didn't replace the cross-members with angle iron; that's how it came from the factory. Then, there are these aluminum pieces that hang off the angle iron (held down by the floor's elevator bolts) and are like c-channel that had cut outs for where the old drain lines were (which didn't drain into tanks, but just to a hookup for a sewer pipe). The belly pan attaches to these pieces.

I think further back in this thread there are some pictures of them. It's only like this under the bathroom area (middle of the trailer).
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Old 04-11-2006, 04:30 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juel
I feel like such a traitor. I have sold the 58 to a friend who got me interested in Airstreams in the 80's. I guess I really am not a silver person. I want another, longer Argosy. Cream is in my blood I guess. Bertha will stay here until May, when she will go to Illinois to be restored. She will have a great home, with a great man.
Hopefully it wasn't this thread that scared you away from restoring a '58!

I'm glad to hear she's going to a good home at least Good luck with your hunt for a new Argosy.
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Old 04-11-2006, 04:33 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markdoane
Andrew,

Regarding putting 300+ lbs on the tongue

I haven't done the math, but is sounds a little over the top. I'd be worried about rotational momentum that far from the axle. I think you would move the center of rotation too far forward.

What will this do? I think it might have a tendency to push the rear of your tow vehicle, especially in curves.

Think what would happen if you had that much weight on the rear bumper. What you have is the same inertial effect, a lot of weight on a long moment arm several feet from the center of gravity. The difference is that the front end of the trailer can't swing free. It is pinned to the TV by the hitch. So part of the angular acceleration goes into your tow vehicle.

I don't know if this helps you or not.


On the plumbing, did you think about putting a check valve in the shower drain line? Here's what I did, but it has not been road tested yet.
Thanks for the advice Mark. I've been thinking about the physics of it as well. I wasn't sure if under 400 pounds would be enough to be noticeable or not, but that certainly is a concern. I might have to see if there's somewhere under the trailer that I can stash those batteries. Actually... if I can find room underneath for two, I'm sure I can find room for four

Regarding the check valve, that's a great idea! I think I might have to plumb one of those in before I put the floor back on. Thanks!

-Andrew
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Old 04-11-2006, 09:17 PM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ankornuta
So how much weight is too much weight to put up on the hitch?
Well, if you go by the conventional wisdom, it is not the actual amount of hitch weight that is the issue (assuming your tow vehicle and hitch can handle it), it is the percentage of total trailer weight that is on the tongue that is important. Traditional wisdom says to keep tongue weight between 10% and 15% of total (loaded) trailer weight. Of course, tongue weight will be affected by fullness of the LP and holding tanks, as well as the location of any "stuff" you load into the trailer.

Just to come up with some reasonable "limits" you might want to make sure tongue weight is above 10% with the LP and holding tanks empty and the trailer lightly loaded and make sure it is below 15% with the holding tanks full and the trailer heavily loaded. The final desired tongue weight will be somewhere in between these values, but will again be dependent upon how you load the trailer.

For example, if your trailer were to weigh around say 4000 lbs lightly loaded with empty tanks, this would put the minumum tonuge weight at around 400 lbs. If it were to weigh somewhere around 6000 lbs heavily loaded with LP and water tanks full, maximum tongue weight would be around 900 lbs. Again, these are just hypothetical numbers, you'll have to determine the correct values based upon the actual weight of your trailer and "stuff".

Now as for those batteries, their weight will not go 100% to the tongue, it will be divided betweem the tongue and trailer axles on proportion to the distances involved based upon mounting location. If up front, the larger portion will go to the tongue, however.

P.S. It is quite possible that originally your trailer did not have even 10% tongue weight, because back when it was made in 1958, trailers were typically pulled with cars, which probably couldn't handle the heavy tongue weights that trucks can handle today. Thus, the layout of your trailer may tend to favor a light tongue weight that the batteries might actually help to offset. Just a thought. The truck scales will tell the true story when you are done.
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Old 04-12-2006, 12:09 AM   #191
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Hmmm... you mention an interesting point. My trailer (a rear bed, mid-bath model) actually had a "gyrotronic stabilizer" in the rear. Basically a lead or steel filled pipe that weighed about 90 pounds. It was mounted in the trunk and looked original. I call it a "gyrotronic stabilizer" because that's what it actually said on it. Obviously this was there to reduce the tongue weight.

I'm curious if anyone else has ever seen one of these. It was mounted in the trunk, about as far rear as anything could be mounted without being on the rear bumper.
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Old 04-12-2006, 01:47 AM   #192
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Hello ankornuta,
You are doing a beautiful and thorough job there ,very impressive! I would agree without repeating with 66 over and markdoane about the tongue weight .The propane tanks 40# and 242 pounds of batteries then the normal tongue weight of the trailer as measured by airstream . although you are redesigning your coach so I cannot say what the weight will be and you wont really know ,but Im sure youve got a pretty good idea .When its finished ,shell on, interior in ,so on and so forth , then it can be correctly measured .The tandems help damatically with your setup as you can design in the load parameters to balance out the weight .Now with those tanks near full over the axles as they are, theoreticallythe tongue may act lighter do to the water weight 8lbs a gallon. I might be inclined to hold off on the battery install until your closer to hitch time .It could be heavier than you think. You will get sloshing to and frow for sure with those level long drains. Almost need some gate valves maybe somewhere to just shut off those lines when underway ,youll have yucky sink water up in the shower or bath .You are doing a very impressive job , real guts there mister.

Scott
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Old 04-12-2006, 01:57 AM   #193
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Me again ,

I dont know if I want 900lbs of tongue weight on the ball although the WD will help out with that of course, wether or not the truck can carry the weight isnt the point .Airstream ,at least then didnt have those heavy weights as 66over says except maybe the single axle trailers that were over 26 or more feet. There were some yes. Travelalls and f250 fords and the travelette crew cabs were the dominate vehical in wallys caravans. But many were towed by cars as well.I would shoot for 400#s I think

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Old 04-12-2006, 10:44 AM   #194
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I looked on the Aitstream website for weights on your trailer and couldn't find them. There are gaps in the chart for the '50's model trailers. But, maybe this will help some. The 1955 Overlander had a hitch weight of 340 lbs, the 1957 shows 260 lbs. You can find the chart here, if you haven't already seen it:

http://www.airstream.com/airstream/p.../weights-1.pdf
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Old 04-12-2006, 10:57 AM   #195
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The 1959 Tradewind had an overall weight of 3170#, hitch weight 290#. I know that is less than 10%, but that's what the factory listed.

Since that was the first year, they may have refined it a little for the 1960 model, and increased the hitch weight a little.
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Old 04-12-2006, 11:52 AM   #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ankornuta
I'm glad you asked that! I actually didn't replace the cross-members with angle iron; that's how it came from the factory. Then, there are these aluminum pieces that hang off the angle iron (held down by the floor's elevator bolts) and are like c-channel that had cut outs for where the old drain lines were (which didn't drain into tanks, but just to a hookup for a sewer pipe). The belly pan attaches to these pieces.

I think further back in this thread there are some pictures of them. It's only like this under the bathroom area (middle of the trailer).
Yes, I did find a photo in post #32 that shows the aluminum pieces that hang down from the frame. That is an interesting way to do it and entirely different than on my '73. It also looks like it could be a good way to open up more room on a later model trailer if it was needed for plumbing or holding tanks.

Malcolm
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