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submariner · 03-02-2012, 05:49 PM

have a look at my threat :
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f109...ion-78252.html

I found it to be the best way, if you just pull the frame out. My 59 has the belly pan riveted onto the c-channel and then the shell is riveted over the top of it. That way, you do not have a seam facing up, where water can get in.

So without pulling the shell off, I was not able to remove the belly pan. And i wanted to put it back together, the way it was designed and you can not re secure all bolts with the pan in place.
Furthermore, i had to “repair" my entire Frame.
Regarding the elevator bolts.. well it took about 10 cut-off wheels. i was able to just cut them off the frame, since most of my floor was gone. on places, where there was still wood, i just cut through the wood.

One thing i have to point out, is very important: Take extremely good measurements of your entire floor.

hope that helps

Sparky57 · 03-02-2012, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by submariner

have a look at my threat :
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f109...ion-78252.html

I found it to be the best way, if you just pull the frame out. My 59 has the belly pan riveted onto the c-channel and then the shell is riveted over the top of it. That way, you do not have a seam facing up, where water can get in.

So without pulling the shell off, I was not able to remove the belly pan. And i wanted to put it back together, the way it was designed and you can not re secure all bolts with the pan in place.

hope that helps

That is how mine is done too- belly pan over the c-channel- So frustrating!....I may pull the shell off, but I'd really like to avoid it- just no space, etc...

After I posted my last post I went back out there and used a Dremel Multi-max tool and a bitmetal blade to saw the bolts off below the c-channel, then a nail set to push them thru the floor. All the bolts seem to be out but the floor won't budge.

If I can get the floor out then my plan is to cut the belly pan off at about 10 inches from the c-channel all around, then remove the shell rivets and slip a new belly pan in over top of the old one.
Think that'd work? I already have a double skin belly in some parts, so that's what gave me the idea....I'd pull the second skin off of those spots and just put a whole new one on....

What are you using for insulation? Trying to think ahead to next steps...wiring, insulation....

Mark

submariner · 03-03-2012, 05:07 AM

My floor is insulated with 3/4 inch styrofoam. pictures are in my post.

I plan for 3/4inch styrofoam strips on the interior walls with reflectix foil insulation on top.

Wiring is all marine grade IEEE - Wiring. I personally do not like solid copper wiring in a moving vehicle. Distribution Panel will be either custom made or a marine grade panel. All connection are Heat shrinked .
Plumbing Is Pex.

BTW , i left the center section above the axles as a removable panel, since this is , where my holding tank will be.

Becky B. · 03-03-2012, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparky57

Took out the interior panels last night, will take out the rest tonite and start carefully labelling and documenting how they all came out so I can put them back in 6 months from now. Considering polishing the end cap in the bathroom area...so I might leave it in place and strip and polish it....decisions decisions!

I just finished polishing my end cap on my Bambi II. I stripped it when it was in place, but removed it after that to get after the old insulation. The mice LOVED the end caps. If you have evidence of mice, I would strongly suggest taking the end caps down after you strip them and then polish them once you have them back up. You can run your wiring under them while they're down too. And put new insulation directly on the end cap and it will go back up easily. I used Prodex insulation. Very easy to work with.

nmbosa · 03-03-2012, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparky57

That is how mine is done too- belly pan over the c-channel- So frustrating!....I may pull the shell off, but I'd really like to avoid it- just no space, etc...

After I posted my last post I went back out there and used a Dremel Multi-max tool and a bitmetal blade to saw the bolts off below the c-channel, then a nail set to push them thru the floor. All the bolts seem to be out but the floor won't budge.

If I can get the floor out then my plan is to cut the belly pan off at about 10 inches from the c-channel all around, then remove the shell rivets and slip a new belly pan in over top of the old one.
Think that'd work? I already have a double skin belly in some parts, so that's what gave me the idea....I'd pull the second skin off of those spots and just put a whole new one on....

What are you using for insulation? Trying to think ahead to next steps...wiring, insulation....

Mark

Mark, you may want to consider just lifting the shell up over the frame and leaving it suspended on saw horses above the frame if space is a concern. It would not be as easy to work on as if you had the space to store the shell separately, but would allow you to get at everything and completely replace the bellypan. If you are planning to drill all the shell rivets anyways (beware of the hidden rivets), lifting the shell up a few feet and bracing it on saw horses with 2x4s is not really much more work. The benefits of that extra work could be significant in that it would allow you to fully asses and repair any frame damage, properly replace the floor and have access to all the areas where you need to bolt the floor and c-channel, and properly replace the belly pan.

That being said, you are right to carefully consider how far you want to go on a project like this. Mine took over a year to complete and ate up every spare moment I had during that time period. If you loose momentum, it can quickly become an unending eyesore sitting in your driveway.

On another note, before you remove any floor or start drilling rivets, make sure you take a ton of measurements. You might also want to create some templates for the ends.

I posted a write-up and photos of what we did before lifting my shell on my blog here: Preparing to Lift the Shell

As far as insulation is concerned, I kind of regret not doing a more thorough job on the belly. Our floor is freezing cold when camping even in the summer. Submariner did a really nice job on his belly pan insulation. On the walls, I just used fiberglass because I didn't have the time or money for the reflectex bubble foil work that many people on the forums have done. If you have the time to do it right, I think the reflectex is a good way to go.

Norm

mjoregan · 03-04-2012, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by submariner

My floor is insulated with 3/4 inch styrofoam. pictures are in my post.

I plan for 3/4inch styrofoam strips on the interior walls with reflectix foil insulation on top.

Wiring is all marine grade IEEE - Wiring. I personally do not like solid copper wiring in a moving vehicle. Distribution Panel will be either custom made or a marine grade panel. All connection are Heat shrinked .
Plumbing Is Pex.

BTW , i left the center section above the axles as a removable panel, since this is , where my holding tank will be.

Good pictures! I was thinking of the same approach, foam boards node the trailer and reflectix in the walls. Ideally though, wouldn't the reflectix get suspended between 2 thin strips of foam, so it keeps heat out, and keeps heat in too? Not trying to street a debate, and and a certain point good enough really is good enough!

I will look into that wiring...seems like the marine industry is light years ahead of the Rv world with some stuff.

Sparky57 · 03-04-2012, 08:52 AM

So from what I read you 'take out the screws and elevator bolts and cut the floor down the middle and then it just slips out'. Well for me there is tar covering over all the bolts and screws, then when you find them they just spin in the wood and don't come out. There is seized up cast piping in the floor and after 4 hours I am close, but still nothing is out.

A couple pics: all the power tools I own being brought to bear on the floor. The empty shell, and the 'Hillbilly smokestack'. I love that thing- but my wife said the other day--when is that thing getting taken down? Gasp....ummm... never, well, only to get polished....

Questions: What can I reuse that thing for?
What is the best way to seal the interior seams...they don't seem to leak right now, but I'll redo them anyway.

pbearsailor · 03-04-2012, 09:27 AM

The smokestack is the vent for the Panel Ray heater. If you don't use it, make sure you keep it as someone will need it for sure.

What I did on the subfloor was to make a perimeter cut through the plywood all the way around, leaving four inches or so against the walls. I used a one inch hole saw without the pilot bit to drill over the top of the old elevator bolts. If you do that, the floor will mostly lift out and it's easy to clean up the elevator bolts left behind. The shell needs support, so that small perimeter piece of subfloor will do that.

cheers,
steve

nmbosa · 03-04-2012, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparky57

The empty shell, and the 'Hillbilly smokestack'. I love that thing- but my wife said the other day--when is that thing getting taken down? Gasp....ummm... never, well, only to get polished....

Questions: What can I reuse that thing for?
What is the best way to seal the interior seams...they don't seem to leak right now, but I'll redo them anyway.

Hah, I love the Hillbilly smokestack! Mine didn't have one. I think they are part of the alure of the older trailers. If you don't re-use the Panel Ray heater, there probably isn't much use for it, but you could still leave it in place. Otherwise, Steve is right, someone will want it.

For the interior seams, I sprayed 3M rubber coating that looks a lot like what Airstream used. Some people lay a bead of Vulkem along all the interior seams. Either way, you really need to seal the exterior seams and make sure all the rivets are properly set to make sure it is sealed up. While you have the interior skins off, do a good leak test, drill any lose rivets and replace them. I found several leaking rivets that were leaking and needed to be replaced.

Acryl-R seam sealanlt (available on Airstream's website) is what I used on the exterior seams. I took dental picks to all the seams and then ran a bead of Acryl-R along every seam. All told, it took about one full day.

The awming rail is a frequent source of leaks. It is riveted down with a strip of butyl tape underneath. Over the years, the butyl tape deteriorates and the rivets losenen up, leading to leaks. Give that a very close look and if it is lose and/or the rivets are leaking, you might want to pull the awning rail and put it back on with a new strip of butyl. It's one of those things you can only do correctly while the interior is out because it needs to be buck riveted back on to provide a good seal.

Norm

Sparky57 · 03-04-2012, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbearsailor

The smokestack is the vent for the Panel Ray heater. If you don't use it, make sure you keep it as someone will need it for sure.

What I did on the subfloor was to make a perimeter cut through the plywood all the way around, leaving four inches or so against the walls. I used a one inch hole saw without the pilot bit to drill over the top of the old elevator bolts. If you do that, the floor will mostly lift out and it's easy to clean up the elevator bolts left behind. The shell needs support, so that small perimeter piece of subfloor will do that.

cheers,
steve

I used your hole saw technique- worked awesome. One half of the end piece of the floor is out. Frame looks solid so I am happy so far!

Couple questions-- if you only leave a 4" lip around the nose and arse end of the plywood flooring then is that enough to make a template? I was thinking it was important to get those end pieces out in a big enough piece to template.

My shell is slightly separated from my frame along the rear...is that ok? Why is that? Is the frame just weak there?

pbearsailor · 03-06-2012, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparky57

I used your hole saw technique- worked awesome. One half of the end piece of the floor is out. Frame looks solid so I am happy so far!

Couple questions-- if you only leave a 4" lip around the nose and arse end of the plywood flooring then is that enough to make a template? I was thinking it was important to get those end pieces out in a big enough piece to template.

My shell is slightly separated from my frame along the rear...is that ok? Why is that? Is the frame just weak there?

I made cardboard templates for my patterns. Check my thread.

If you're doing a shell on, it is unlikely you can get the old subfloor out in full width sections anyway. Most of the subfloor will come up in big pieces, but getting the perimeter out is usually a messy job. Hard to get access the bolts in the C channel and I used a cutoff wheel in the grinder to cut them out.

Hopefully your shell separation is from rotten plywood separating from the C channel.

Glad the hole saw helped!

Cheers,
Steve

Sparky57 · 03-06-2012, 10:45 PM

OK- So the rear floor is out almost all the way back to the wheel wells. Frame is solid as a rock, still showing most of the paint.. the plywood was rotty around the edges but there's enough to make a template. Cut out the old cast pipes too- must weight 30 lbs. Weirdest P-trap on a shower I have ever seen- more like an S trap.

My current thinking is to do the trailer in 3rds.: remove the floor, clean the frame, paint with POR15, then remove belly pan for that section, replace floor the floor and re-bolt the plywood in place...move to next section. I am going to cut the belly pan to 6" all around then shove a new one over top later on. I like that approach, adds some strength to the curves, simplifies, adds some stiffness to that radius edge. i see no downsides with that approach.

Funny thing about my frame-- it has so much steel! I will post pictures later, when the light is shining again, but the cross members are only 16" on centre apart. I was expecting 20 or more. I'll have to cut one cross member out to get tanks in there. Was shocked. Is this normal? From looking at other posts the cross members are further apart and supported down the middle with an extra brace.

So the back-end separation: Is there a way to prevent it happening again? I am thinking a big L shaped flange and bolts thru that and thru the floor to give it some extra grab.

Father-in law is super-welder, sheet metal guru and all-round metal bending ninja, so I am sure he will come up with something fancy. He is already planning on making new wheel wells, wants to make Stainless-steel shower pan and surround, a custom sink, etc....

Mark

Eric H · 03-06-2012, 11:12 PM

I don't know where you're pointing those lights, but I like it.

nmbosa · 03-08-2012, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparky57

So the back-end separation: Is there a way to prevent it happening again? I am thinking a big L shaped flange and bolts thru that and thru the floor to give it some extra grab.

Father-in law is super-welder, sheet metal guru and all-round metal bending ninja, so I am sure he will come up with something fancy. He is already planning on making new wheel wells, wants to make Stainless-steel shower pan and surround, a custom sink, etc....

Mark

Mark, here is a recommended fix that Inland Andy posted a while back. I went with this on my rebuild. It involves a couple of pieces of angle iron welded to the side of the frame towards the rear, and two steel plates in the c-channel at the rear with bolts through the plate in the c-channel and through the angle iron. This creates a better shell to floor and floor to frame connection.

Norm

Sparky57 · 03-08-2012, 09:19 PM

Here are some pics of the back section with the floor totally out. Will pressure wash tomorrow and start cleaning the metal for por15!

Anyone else's cross braces this close together?
What can i do about the corrosion?

On a good note, the frame is is super shape and the wheel wells are looking in great condition too- so that simplifies things.

When I put the floor back in....will I be able to do a single sheet, or will I have to seam it up the middle to get it back in? A friend a work was suggesting 1/2" ply with a 1/4" overlay so that I can bend it and slip it in...Would make 3/4" floor and might be easier to get in place.

The corrosion in the picture 3 is around the old shore power inlet....what's the best approach there?

mjoregan · 03-08-2012, 10:10 PM

Oh, the cross members are 16 inches part! Crazy to me....

Sparky57 · 04-09-2012, 04:06 PM

Ok, It has been a month since my last update, but much has happened since then, as well as a trip to Disneyland with my 3 kids for 2 weeks in March....so since my last update I have :

removed the entire inner skin and insulation
removed the entire floor, except for a thin strip of wood/bolts around the front 1/3rd of the trailer, rats nest and all
pressure washed the hole thing
dropped the belly pan (just cut it away for now)
degreased and then pressure washed the frame and wire wheeled it all
prepped the metal with POR-15 metal prep and re-pressure washed
painted the frame black with POR-15
removed all the bits from the outside that need chroming and dismantled the door and lock
removed all the broken glass
ordered and received alumiprep and alodine
ordered and received 2 tanks- black (21g)and grey (38g)
prepped the trailer and hitch area for painting
finalized the layout and ordered all my appliances
ordered another $325 of bits and pieces from VTS
Bought plywood for the floor as well as a gallon of West System Epoxy
Bought insulation from insulation4less and took delivery
Got the father-in law over to start planning the tank hangers and welding repairs and got him started on new wheel well covers.

Whew!

Goal for April is to get the tanks in, epoxy and install the floor. Going with 2 layers of wood, glued and screwed together with PL500, one layer of 3/8", one layer of 1/4"...idea is it will be easier to slide under the c channel, and will be as strong as full sheets.

Also ordered wireless rear view camera from eBay.

Mark

Sparky57 · 04-09-2012, 05:26 PM

Some pics of the progress, as well as a picture of a signature by guy who made the airstream and the date. Cool- Can't really read it but it says made by Johnny Alonza June 13, 1957