Features, techonology, etc between somewhat older and newer trailers?

[slowmover]

As in my earlier post, I believe in attending to (order of importance):

Roadgoing safety issues

Exterior Needs

First.

LED exterior lamps. New torsion axles (conversion on vintage kin; leaf spring not worth keeping; Dexter dealer work quote); 16" wheels and LT tires. New breakaway and chains. New TT to TV wiring. New brake wiring. Etc.

Roof and window seals. Door hardware and seals. Belly pan integrity and vermin prevention.

These are all subjects to research.

It's the exterior that is likeliest to turn me away. Body damage any brand can be tens of thousands.

The single expensive interior component is the refrigerator. I've always preferred three-way, but latest Danfoss-compressor models have much to offer.

Other than this (and model or year or brand dependent) there isn't much that can't wait given a thorough inspection. Water heaters and furnaces aren't expensive. Most electrical is simple. Etc.

Count on needing new batteries. Research AGM type.

With some knowledge of what budget for the above (immediate), and to get the rest ready for camping, you'll be able to better evaluate what you inspect. It will be $10k past purchase price. That's a minimum to have spent inside a year or so.

Cosmetics are thousands more. Study sales brochures. Restoration threads. The window treatments and floors in our 1983 were alone above $2,250. Keep quality high, and don't let things slide.

A friend bought an '89 34V Avion the wife and I also inspected. He sold it a couple of years later for well past twice original asking price (and above his upgrade costs. Still a bargain to new owner). This is the single attraction of an older unit. I won't get all my labor out, but I sure won't lose a bundle either.

You may not sell, but as it can take many months to sell, the better the rig, the more potential buyers, the sooner it's gone.

Finally, as the vintage kin feature anodized aluminum skins, you'd have no where near the annual maintenance hours or Plasti-cote re-spray costs that bedevil AS owners.

And you'll almost never see yourself going down the highway. I'd say it's about one in every thirty to forty I see (many sold in Texas originally).

Good luck

.

[sgschwend]

I think you should determine your choices based on what your personality, budget, and what type of effort you want to invest.

Personality: likes everything perfect to wanting a nice rig but life's too short so lets have some fun.

Budget: money is no object to money matters

Effort: I want to do a frame-off refurbish to plug and play.

Then look for a trailer that fits you.

[Harvey Dowd]

Slowmover:

Great, great information. I had not even thought about Avion, but am now considering it. The few/no leaks concept sounds tempting, as does the solid construction. The only negative is that I don't like the window arrangements as well.

I've already found some great ones one sale. I'll use that $10k minimum figure on getting any used trailer into decent shape. And know that there are many upgrades after that.

Last post on the thread talks about personality in regards to trailer condition. I do need to nail that down. I am somewhat handy and willing to figure things out. That said, I doubt I could handle a complete trailer renovation.

Lots to think about, but these lesser known trailers are intriguing.

Thanks.

[Harvey Dowd]

Just saw this one pop up on AS Classifieds...

Looks interesting and looks to me less than what it would be if it was an AS.

http://www.airstreamclassifieds.com/...om-avion-9-1m/

[slowmover]

It's good looking. And TTT is highly regarded.

For me, Id look for units ranging $8-15k. Do the renovations necessary, and save the cosmetics till later. With no serious skin damage, and no evidence of electrical fire (salvage title unacceptable to me), a TT in close to original condition is my favorite.

Have you read Beckys thread on her 32S?

[rodsterinfl]

Great comments from those more experienced in restoration than me.
My thought is that you have to weigh the cost of maintenance and upgrading to overall cost and enjoyment.
My newbie experience was renting motorhomes and I was convinced I wanted a View or Navion. Then I found new Airstreams. I spent three visits at a dealer 150 or so miles from my home figuring out which model then negotiating on a new 25RBTwin. All of the sudden the word "used" came in to play and it went for it;' however, I was not willing to rebuild a trailer nor did I have the ability to do so. I found the 2006-2008 comfortable in age (about 5-7 years old) back then.

Even buying a then six-year-old Airstream I spent half as I paid updating it to new specs as far as equipment is concerned. That said, even if I bought a new one then, I would have spent at least 1/4 more for upgrades not included. So, economically it was a good move. Now it is going on 12 years by model year but quite new in many aspects. Check out my pics and you will see what can be done with a decade old model (as one example).

[Harvey Dowd]

Originally Posted by slowmover

It's good looking. And TTT is highly regarded.

For me, Id look for units ranging $8-15k. Do the renovations necessary, and save the cosmetics till later. With no serious skin damage, and no evidence of electrical fire (salvage title unacceptable to me), a TT in close to original condition is my favorite.

Have you read Beckys thread on her 32S?

I have not seen Beckys thread...will search for it.

I am moderately handy, but I think completely redoing a TT would be more than I could handle both as far as time in my life right now or ability. I think you must have more skills.

Maybe after my first trailer I might be ready for a more serious challenge for the second trailer.

[Harvey Dowd]

Originally Posted by rodsterinfl

Great comments from those more experienced in restoration than me.
My thought is that you have to weigh the cost of maintenance and upgrading to overall cost and enjoyment.
My newbie experience was renting motorhomes and I was convinced I wanted a View or Navion. Then I found new Airstreams. I spent three visits at a dealer 150 or so miles from my home figuring out which model then negotiating on a new 25RBTwin. All of the sudden the word "used" came in to play and it went for it;' however, I was not willing to rebuild a trailer nor did I have the ability to do so. I found the 2006-2008 comfortable in age (about 5-7 years old) back then.

Even buying a then six-year-old Airstream I spent half as I paid updating it to new specs as far as equipment is concerned. That said, even if I bought a new one then, I would have spent at least 1/4 more for upgrades not included. So, economically it was a good move. Now it is going on 12 years by model year but quite new in many aspects. Check out my pics and you will see what can be done with a decade old model (as one example).

Nice looking TT and upgrades.

I have had similar thoughts. I also have looked at quality Class C Motorhomes and am more interested in the AS. Also agree on rebuilding: don't have time or ability for serious rebuild. If I got an older trailer (80s, 90s) I would probably want most of the serious work done (major repairs, major systems upgrades) and then I could replace appliances as needed and do eventual cosmetic upgrades.

The idea of a more recent trailer is also tempting...fancier, likely fewer short-to-mid term problems.

I am just starting my search (we are going to rent some rvs, trailers first) but it's great to have so much information and community input here.

Thanks.

[slowmover]

Correct me, but I have the impression a complete interior re-do appears necessary to you, HD.

A trailer in otherwise good original condition will need appliance replacement (which is DIY), and replacement of flooring, furniture coverings and window treatments. Which can be done as time and/or budget allows.

We're not overhauling the appliances. Electrical systems tend not have problems (upgrades are converters or outlets; maybe to 50A service) and unless plumbing has suffered due to insufficient freeze protection, tends not have problems either.

There may not be that much to do, in other words. The upholstery in my 1990 isn't worn out, but UV has fossilized the cellular window shades. I'll get around to both someday.

Attending to roadgoing concerns first sets the budget. WD hitch, etc. Then the TT can be used as designed: a mobile home (that may need further repairs)

Changing cabinetry isn't recommended. It's unnecessary. Same with other floorplan changes. Just don't do it. I would strongly recommend against this as you will find that the manufacturer had a great deal invested in space efficiency with the floorplans available.

Replace or repair what's necessary at first. Safety, then comfort.

Traveling in summer isn't likely to require a new furnace. That can be put off.

With refrigerator, it can be a control board issue, allowing that item to soldier on a few years more. Etc.

Finding the the best trailer available is the only "secret". Where experience will help (individual inspectors, or pics to this thread). I once had the (dis) pleasure of informing a couple that they'd bought a trailer which had suffered an electrical fire behind the walls. Salvage title and low price wasn't enough to have dissuaded them.

A comparatively low price for a vintage kin trailer is due solely to lack of knowledge. Not quality. A $12k Avion may well be a $28k Airstream. But the former is better built, will need fewer repairs, and will have cost less to reach the same condition across an appraisal checklist.

Be sure to distinguish between good pictures and bad in ads you view. Why I strongly recommend point by point comparison of sales brochure pictures against sale ads. Closer to original and all owner items removed in clear, well-lit pictures is gold.

The more trailers you view, the more apparent this becomes. Much is down to the current owners care. Something left out in a field for years will have problems. Something stored under cover and used regularly will be far better.

[rodsterinfl]

Slowmover has a good point, not to cut off vintage as they may be better built, etc.

I will say this about new trailers and, for that matter, new RVs. I believe they are going overboard in some features. I have really enjoyed boon docking the few times I have done it. I also appreciate built-in systems that allow for a minimal electrical footprint. I find the LP oven and stove an excellent example of point. If all you have is a microwave and electric heat and dual AC and, and...oh, the residential fridge. The camping experience will be limited to hook ups for full functionality- that or a really big generator. My thought is that unless you have a large family and need of all that electrical equipment, don't go there. I know I speak against the flow of fancy fridges, lots of AC, etc. It is just amazing to me. I have redundant systems for cooking, etc. but I believe some of that self-contained ability is lost when it goes too fancy on the requirements.

[Harvey Dowd]

Originally Posted by slowmover

Correct me, but I have the impression a complete interior re-do appears necessary to you, HD.

A trailer in otherwise good original condition will need appliance replacement (which is DIY), and replacement of flooring, furniture coverings and window treatments. Which can be done as time and/or budget allows.

We're not overhauling the appliances. Electrical systems tend not have problems (upgrades are converters or outlets; maybe to 50A service) and unless plumbing has suffered due to insufficient freeze protection, tends not have problems either.

There may not be that much to do, in other words. The upholstery in my 1990 isn't worn out, but UV has fossilized the cellular window shades. I'll get around to both someday.

Attending to roadgoing concerns first sets the budget. WD hitch, etc. Then the TT can be used as designed: a mobile home (that may need further repairs)

Changing cabinetry isn't recommended. It's unnecessary. Same with other floorplan changes. Just don't do it. I would strongly recommend against this as you will find that the manufacturer had a great deal invested in space efficiency with the floorplans available.

Replace or repair what's necessary at first. Safety, then comfort.

Traveling in summer isn't likely to require a new furnace. That can be put off.

With refrigerator, it can be a control board issue, allowing that item to soldier on a few years more. Etc.

Finding the the best trailer available is the only "secret". Where experience will help (individual inspectors, or pics to this thread). I once had the (dis) pleasure of informing a couple that they'd bought a trailer which had suffered an electrical fire behind the walls. Salvage title and low price wasn't enough to have dissuaded them.

A comparatively low price for a vintage kin trailer is due solely to lack of knowledge. Not quality. A $12k Avion may well be a $28k Airstream. But the former is better built, will need fewer repairs, and will have cost less to reach the same condition across an appraisal checklist.

Be sure to distinguish between good pictures and bad in ads you view. Why I strongly recommend point by point comparison of sales brochure pictures against sale ads. Closer to original and all owner items removed in clear, well-lit pictures is gold.

The more trailers you view, the more apparent this becomes. Much is down to the current owners care. Something left out in a field for years will have problems. Something stored under cover and used regularly will be far better.

Sorry if it seems unclear on what I want, or if I seem to be shifting. Frankly, until I made the initial post I had no idea what I wanted and the final product we might get is still evolving. This thread has been great in refining many of my initial thoughts.

I wouldn't say a complete interior redo is necessary before I would buy it. But I wouldn't want it to be so much work that it would take forever to accomplish given our busy schedules. Also, it would need to be clean, functional enough to use with our toddler.

So, using your discussion points. Yes, we could live with old shades, or easily replace them ourselves. We could live with old upholstery, as long as not moldy, etc. But, if the floor was partially rotted and we were going to have to start pulling out cabinetry, replacing subflooring, and then laying an all new floor surface, that would probably be more than I could sign on for at this point. Maybe for my second AS after the toddler is in high school.

Completely agree on cabinetry...why would I replace? That's part of buying an older TT Now, I might replace a 30 year old toilet if it's hinkey.

We would also be fine replacing appliances as needed and keep using old ones as long as they function. And agree that some can be delayed, such as the furnace. But if we wanted a second AC and needed to upgrade to 50 amp, I don't have that knowledge now, and we might want to budget having an rv shop do that.

Great idea on using sales brochures to evaluate used TTs.

Thanks again for all the advice.

[Harvey Dowd]

Originally Posted by rodsterinfl

Slowmover has a good point, not to cut off vintage as they may be better built, etc.

I will say this about new trailers and, for that matter, new RVs. I believe they are going overboard in some features. I have really enjoyed boon docking the few times I have done it. I also appreciate built-in systems that allow for a minimal electrical footprint. I find the LP oven and stove an excellent example of point. If all you have is a microwave and electric heat and dual AC and, and...oh, the residential fridge. The camping experience will be limited to hook ups for full functionality- that or a really big generator. My thought is that unless you have a large family and need of all that electrical equipment, don't go there. I know I speak against the flow of fancy fridges, lots of AC, etc. It is just amazing to me. I have redundant systems for cooking, etc. but I believe some of that self-contained ability is lost when it goes too fancy on the requirements.

Definitely agree...vintage (to a certain point) is definitely where we are looking for our initial purchase. The last thing we want to do is drop $80k on our first TT. I really like these 20-30 year old large trailers. And the Avions do look like quite a bargain.

From what I have read on these forums, your point of being able to have as many appliances on LP (or at least LP as an option) is a great way to go to break out of the campgrounds. And if we stick where it's cool, we won't need the AC...just the fans.

Thanks.

[slowmover]

HD, you're way ahead of you can "camp" in the backyard, literally or closest campground. That's how to best evaluate what's going on.

RV spaces are about locale. In Texas I've paid $350-450/monthly last few years. The trailer can stay at a place where you can run over and do things plus have an RV tech join you to do his part. "Camp" on weekends.

Get some of that out of the way, it'll help confidence. Won't take long.

If you really can take it home, then look into proper electrical and sewer.

A good condition trailer is mainly elbow grease.

Systematize to address things. Not piecemeal. Keep labor costs down by combining jobs.

I won't say you can't go camping immediately. I did. With two of the last three trailers (previous owners had been using them regularly).