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Old 12-20-2016, 02:40 PM   #1
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2007 25' Safari FB SE
2017 30' Flying Cloud
Highland , California
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 185
Brief Comparisons between 2017 FC 30 and 2007 Safari 25

Well folks we have gone a done it. Just purchased and taken delivery on a 2017 FC 30 and traded in our 2007 Safari 25 LS, SE.

I thought I would make some initial brief observations of some the differences between the two models not related to trailer length.

I am using the same tow vehicle for both trailers a 2010 Tundra 5.7 Crew Max Limited.

We are currently doing the shakedown on the new AS in a RV Park after taking delivery from the dealer on December 5,2016.

I changed to my hitch from a Equal-i-zer to a Blue Ox with 1,000 lb. bars.
I noticed the Blue Ox hitch transfers less road shock to the trailer and trails smoother behind the TV. Haven't gotten it out on the interstate yet that will come in January 2017. I noticed that the Blue Ox does require a lot more effort to attach to bar chains than the Equal-i-zer

Outside Improvements:

1) Wheel style has changed to allow the valve steam to exit the wheel at an angle rather than perpendicular to the wheel. Much easier to check tire pressure and add air to tire.
2) Outboard dump valves. Whoopee. Cost me $400 to change a $4.00 valve on the inboard dump valves on my Safari.
3) Wet bumper storage area diamond plated on the bottom now and box area ends now closed off. Safari had open box ends near the bumper which allowed small items to disappear from the box.
4) Deeper battery box with solar connections. Can use 6 volt batteries in series with enough clearance now.
5) Propane auxiliary connection near propane bottles for propane lanterns?
6) Aluminum roll up outside entry steps. Although they are wider and sit lower than the steel Safari's, folding the steps up takes a bit to getting used to. Watch out for your fingers. Ouch.
Inside Improvement:
1) Overhead cabinets now reinforced with an extruded bar screwed to overhead coach frame. This is a big deal as our Safari was beginning to show stress in the kitchen cabinets as the screws were shearing off and I was fearful that the cabinets were going to detach.
2) Electronic improvements upgrades to audio and video hardware all components are now HDMI compatible. Safari was on the cusp of the new technology Sony TV had a single HDMI connection most of the other connections were component or composite. No Blu-Ray. A single TV an option was available to install one in the bed room.
3) Duct ed HP/AC More ceiling head room. More natural light in living spaces. The FC has 2 "moon" roofs one over the aisle between the shower and toilet. A very dark spot in the Safari.
4) Programmable thermostat. No sure this is a good thing. Jury still out. Set up between Zone 1 and Zone 2 a bit confusing.
5) Ocean Br ease roll up window shades. Better than the blinds in the Safari but have no adjustment, they are either all the way up or down, no in-between.
6)Tank monitor. Self calibrating and digital. Whoopee. No more guessing as with the Safari.

Odds and Ends

1) All extras were factory installed. Avoid dealer installation like the plague.
The only hic-up I had so far with this purchase was the installation of the Winegard G-2 carry out dish. I really wish techs would read the installation instructions before they dive into a project.
2) Power Jack- do not rely on the level bubble on top of the jack. It's off by a significant amount.

more to come as we begin to travel.............................
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Old 12-20-2016, 03:47 PM   #2
PKI
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2015 23' FB Flying Cloud
Walnut Creek , California
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Thank you for the comparison

The bubble on the jack top is adjustable. At least it is on ours. Just loosen the screws and set it to level after you have the rig to your satisfaction. Then you can use it as a rough starting point instead of worthless info.

If you have the time, please add your BO hitch comments to your favorite BO thread. Having the info in one place helps folks who are researching options.

Found your comparison interesting. Thanks for posting. Travel safe. Pat
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Old 12-20-2016, 04:51 PM   #3
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2016 25' Flying Cloud
Jupiter , Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zapper View Post
Ocean Br ease roll up window shades. Better than the blinds in the Safari but have no adjustment, they are either all the way up or down, no in-between.
You should also be able to raise them to the point where they hook onto the window handles.
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Old 02-11-2017, 01:55 AM   #4
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2007 25' Safari FB SE
2017 30' Flying Cloud
Highland , California
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by zapper View Post
Well folks we have gone a done it. Just purchased and taken delivery on a 2017 FC 30 and traded in our 2007 Safari 25 LS, SE.



I thought I would make some initial brief observations of some the differences between the two models not related to trailer length.



I am using the same tow vehicle for both trailers a 2010 Tundra 5.7 Crew Max Limited.



We are currently doing the shakedown on the new AS in a RV Park after taking delivery from the dealer on December 5,2016.



I changed to my hitch from a Equal-i-zer to a Blue Ox with 1,000 lb. bars.

I noticed the Blue Ox hitch transfers less road shock to the trailer and trails smoother behind the TV. Haven't gotten it out on the interstate yet that will come in January 2017. I noticed that the Blue Ox does require a lot more effort to attach to bar chains than the Equal-i-zer



Outside Improvements:



1) Wheel style has changed to allow the valve steam to exit the wheel at an angle rather than perpendicular to the wheel. Much easier to check tire pressure and add air to tire.

2) Outboard dump valves. Whoopee. Cost me $400 to change a $4.00 valve on the inboard dump valves on my Safari.

3) Wet bumper storage area diamond plated on the bottom now and box area ends now closed off. Safari had open box ends near the bumper which allowed small items to disappear from the box.

4) Deeper battery box with solar connections. Can use 6 volt batteries in series with enough clearance now.

5) Propane auxiliary connection near propane bottles for propane lanterns?

6) Aluminum roll up outside entry steps. Although they are wider and sit lower than the steel Safari's, folding the steps up takes a bit to getting used to. Watch out for your fingers. Ouch.

Inside Improvement:

1) Overhead cabinets now reinforced with an extruded bar screwed to overhead coach frame. This is a big deal as our Safari was beginning to show stress in the kitchen cabinets as the screws were shearing off and I was fearful that the cabinets were going to detach.

2) Electronic improvements upgrades to audio and video hardware all components are now HDMI compatible. Safari was on the cusp of the new technology Sony TV had a single HDMI connection most of the other connections were component or composite. No Blu-Ray. A single TV an option was available to install one in the bed room.

3) Duct ed HP/AC More ceiling head room. More natural light in living spaces. The FC has 2 "moon" roofs one over the aisle between the shower and toilet. A very dark spot in the Safari.

4) Programmable thermostat. No sure this is a good thing. Jury still out. Set up between Zone 1 and Zone 2 a bit confusing.

5) Ocean Br ease roll up window shades. Better than the blinds in the Safari but have no adjustment, they are either all the way up or down, no in-between.

6)Tank monitor. Self calibrating and digital. Whoopee. No more guessing as with the Safari.



Odds and Ends



1) All extras were factory installed. Avoid dealer installation like the plague.

The only hic-up I had so far with this purchase was the installation of the Winegard G-2 carry out dish. I really wish techs would read the installation instructions before they dive into a project.

2) Power Jack- do not rely on the level bubble on top of the jack. It's off by a significant amount.



more to come as we begin to travel.............................


Well the adventure begins a bit more to add since the last post. These observations comparisons between the two trailers were made while traveling from Austin Tx to Highland CA. Distance approximately 1400 miles During mid January 2017. We traveled on I-10 most of the distance because it is the highway furthest south we can travel due to the unpredictable weather in these areas during this time of year.

Blue Ox WDH did an outstanding job keeping the twitching to a minimum when being passed by semi trucks. Did not like the BO latch style A frame brackets. Bent the bracket and snapped the pin on the lifting tool when lifting the bars in place. ( Noted others on the forum who use BO WDH refer to ratchet style brackets. Apparently these are the newer style bracket. I will buy a set)

Got a factory installed rear camera. Takes a bit getting used to. Images OK if close. Anything further back than 200 feet hard to tell if a semi truck or passenger vehicle. Also hard to judge distance behind when backing up. I still have to get out of the truck to look .


Outside

I am having doubts about the Ajax electric jack being able to lift 3000lbs. Seems to be weaker than the Superjack on the Safari. Time will tell here.

Noticed that my mileage range on a tank of gas dropped between 30to 50 miles driving at 65 mph while towing the FC 30. This doesn't sound like a lot but it reduces my driving range on a tank of gas to about 200 miles max. So it gets a little dicey in west Texas where it can be more than 200 miles between gas station. Yes I carry 30 gallons of gas in the truck bed for that reason.

Had a flat tire. No it wasn't a tire failure of the GYM, picked up a screw. BUT AS changed the size of the lug nuts so the lug wrench I had thoughtfully remembered to bring wouldn't fit AND it isn't the same size as the stabilizer jack screw on the FC nut like the Safari. So As thoughtfully gives you a speed wrench for the stabilizers that you can live without but no lug wrench for the wheels? Yes I had a bottle jack with me.

Inside

Whoopee cushions stay in place while traveling.

Happy days no drawers opening and throwing their contents across the trailer during the trip. A regular occurrence with the Safari.

Black water tank seems to fill up quicker than the Safari. ????? Same 2 people. Tank fills in 4-5 days. Safari 14 days. Maybe the toilet pushes more water on each flush? Sounds weird I know.

Dometic dual zone temp management. Takes a bit getting used to it. On heat cycle bedroom warms quicker than kitchen area. Set the bed room 2-3 degrees lower than kitchen area seems to work best. Haven't used it on the cool cycle yet. One difference is the AUTO setting the Safari didn't have this option. If the zones are set for a temperature say 75 degrees it will heat until reaching the set temp but will switch automatically to the cool cycle if the temp exceeds the set temp by a few degrees. Not sure how practical this is as I can see the bed room and kitchen fighting one another if the temps are not set the same.

That's it for now.............until next trip.
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Old 02-11-2017, 08:45 AM   #5
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2008 27' Safari FB SE
Pfafftown , North Carolina
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 145
Black Water Issue

Zapper,

I am enjoying following your thread as we have a 2008 Safari 27FB and like the additional space offered in the 30'. In regard to the shorter time between dumps of the black water tank, I believe Airstream changed the plumbing sometime after 2008 to route the disposal of water from the bathroom sink to the black tank. In our 2008, the water from bathroom sink flows into the gray tank. We, too can go almost two weeks between dumps of the black tank.

Susan
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Old 02-11-2017, 09:08 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zapper View Post
Black water tank seems to fill up quicker than the Safari. ????? Same 2 people. Tank fills in 4-5 days. Safari 14 days. Maybe the toilet pushes more water on each flush? Sounds weird I know.
It's not uncommon for the tank monitors to be inaccurate. We have that problem with our grey tank monitor. I was curious how far off it was, so at a local state park with full hookups I completely drained it, then filled it up 5 gallons at a time while keeping track of the gallons and what the monitor showed. The tank is 37 gallons, and at about 22-23 gallons it showed 100% on the monitor. We hope to get that looked at when we visit Jackson Center in the Fall.
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Old 02-12-2017, 12:52 PM   #7
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2007 25' Safari FB SE
2017 30' Flying Cloud
Highland , California
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaLevel View Post
It's not uncommon for the tank monitors to be inaccurate. We have that problem with our grey tank monitor. I was curious how far off it was, so at a local state park with full hookups I completely drained it, then filled it up 5 gallons at a time while keeping track of the gallons and what the monitor showed. The tank is 37 gallons, and at about 22-23 gallons it showed 100% on the monitor. We hope to get that looked at when we visit Jackson Center in the Fall.
Got to do the measurement deal to see how close to the 38 gallons the 100% sensor monitor is. My understanding of the newer sensors is they "auto" calibrate themselves . Whatever that means. Older style "Safari" you could manually calibrate them. May be part of my personality but I dislike digital read outs that give you exact numerical display down to the last significant digit. It implies an accuracy that doesn't exist. Noticed that my monitotors read in increments of 6%, but not always. Go figure.

Btw I closed the toilet water inlet valve about 3/4 of the way and We can "go" for 7 days without emptying the tank. Whoopee.
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