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Old 06-01-2006, 10:01 PM   #15
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Keep in mind that misrepresentation for the purpose of selling may be of interest to the Attorney General of the state where the purchase was made.

Part of this is to have a statement of condition in writing as a part of a purchase agreement and that needs to be laid down before any money is transferred. Paper is best but well documented word of mouth is also a binding contract. Email records and advertisements are good to establish just what was agreed upon.

There are also other methods to address grievances in a purchase agreement that you might want to look into if you got burned.
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Old 06-01-2006, 10:08 PM   #16
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Red Flags are a warning!!!

Hello all -

Sorry to read of the poor experience some folks have had.

Just to repeat the obvious - we live in a 'free market economy'....

Buyer beware - period. It is YOUR $ after all.

I won't bore you all again (it is posted several elsewhere's afterall) with my buying experience. That said....

I set myself several perameters. Buy price, condition, year. ANY Trailers that didn't meet those parameters - OUT. Beyond parameters, I ASKED A ZILLION questions....!!!!!! ANY hesitation on an answer, or as I call them, RED FLAGS!, I was DONE. End of discusion. PERIOD. FULL STOP!

That "Red Flag" rule meant that I was out a load of $'s for phone calls and the like. Cheap compared to buying something I DIDN"T want.

It DID take a while. Like about 11 months. I DID get the trailer that I will be using for a long time to come however...! Happy with the seller, the price, ALL the answers to the questions. I got EXACTLY what I wanted - SilverToy!

Best of luck to all that are buying... Remember, it IS YOUR money! Get what you want!

Peace

Axel
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Old 06-02-2006, 06:46 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim & Susan
Roger, Stephanie,

Maybe I need to explain a bit further. I don’t mean to make more work for the Mods, Lord knows you all are overworked and underpaid enough as it is! I mean this sincerely, the Moderators here do a great job keeping this a decent place that provides useful information (and there are fewer and fewer of these on the internet these days). I’ve looked at other Airstream oriented “Forums”. This is the only one I subscribe to. You help to create an atmosphere where people feel welcomed; you do make this a community.

What I’m talking about is curtailing outright deceit. Caveat Emptor always applies. That should always be routine, especially when making a large purchase, many times at great distances. Melody Ranch alluded to the fact that an individual (or group of individuals) were scamming folks in Florida and somehow wound up on our Forum. If this type of individual can be ferreted out, let’s get rid of him. It sounds like Bill’s experience wasn’t much better. I took a few minutes and randomly checked the feedback on about 15 or so sellers of Vintage Trailers in the classifieds. I found only two sellers with any feedback. Not a scientific approach, but I thought I’d at least take a look-see.

We have a “report post” link on all of the posts in each thread. Perhaps something along those lines in the classifieds? Rules could be implemented defining deceit, dishonesty or scams. The last thing y’all have time for is refereeing between two angry people, but scamsters only serve to bring a bad light on the Forum.

Thanks for listening.

Jim

<Moderator hat on>
Jim, I understand your position and you suggestion thoroughly. Thanks for the kind thoughts about the moderation staff here.

The problem we have with trying to moderate the classifieds is that anyone can subscribe to the Forums. Anyone can claim to have a dispute with another member over a listing over any issues and we have no way to investigate, prove, or disprove any facts or claims on either side. While I agree that it would be a really excellent thing to be able to do, we just physically don't have any resources to do it, and if we did, and we missed someone who IS a scamster, it might even be easier for him/her to take advantage of another member because of an even higher (although unjustified) trust level that members might have in our classified listings.

Unfortunately, sometimes folks believe that our members are more honest than the average public because they're members here. I'd like to think that too, but the reality is that our members ARE the general public and they just happen to own a specific brand of trailer.

Skepticism is a good thing. Always remember "Caveat Emptor" when responding to a classified ad. Our classifieds are no more or less accurate, safe, or guaranteed than those in the local paper, on eBay, or Craigslist, and buyers have to be just as wary and responsible for their own money when they look at trailers listed here as they do for an item listed anywhere else.

<Moderator hat off>

Roger
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Old 06-02-2006, 07:23 AM   #18
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More info and some additional facts.

After reading all your comments, I want to add that there are at least two kinds of Re-sellers. There are those who run a Re-selling Business and devote most of their time at it, and then there are re-sellers who are owners and users of Airstreams who occasionally re-sell a target of opportunity. My comments are directed at the former, not the latter. Also I want to add that I am one of those "lucky" retirees, living on an "unlucky" fixed income. I do not have unlimited funds to fix major items/repairs on a bad purchase mistake. It's essential that my first purchase decision NOT require vast amounts of additional funds. Bill
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Old 06-02-2006, 07:49 AM   #19
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I think your position is clearly understood Bill. As a buyer though, it shouldn't make any difference to you what the source of the trailer is, unless of course it comes from a bona-fide RV dealer. There, you should be able to expect a higher level of quality, refitting as necessary, and service after the sale for a used unit. As we all know, though, we don't live in a perfect world and sometimes that goes awry as well even with legitimate dealerships.

The trailer you look at for sale from any private party (either owner or "flipper") will either be in the condition you're willing to accept at a price you're willing to pay or it won't. That determination of value (price versus condition) is up to you to determine and if you're wise, it shouldn't be based on the representations of the seller, whoever they may be.

Even if you use one of us who have volunteered to inspect trailers, you should only use that information to decide whether or not to make a trip to inspect the trailer personally. The final determination of value still lies with you.

Roger
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Old 06-02-2006, 08:17 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 85MH325
I think your position is clearly understood Bill. As a buyer though, it shouldn't make any difference to you what the source of the trailer is, unless of course it comes from a bona-fide RV dealer. There, you should be able to expect a higher level of quality, refitting as necessary, and service after the sale for a used unit. As we all know, though, we don't live in a perfect world and sometimes that goes awry as well even with legitimate dealerships.

The trailer you look at for sale from any private party (either owner or "flipper") will either be in the condition you're willing to accept at a price you're willing to pay or it won't. That determination of value (price versus condition) is up to you to determine and if you're wise, it shouldn't be based on the representations of the seller, whoever they may be.

Even if you use one of us who have volunteered to inspect trailers, you should only use that information to decide whether or not to make a trip to inspect the trailer personally. The final determination of value still lies with you.

Roger
I agree, Roger, that the final determination of value still lies with me, the buyer. That's how it's always been.

This discussion has gotten a bit scewed from my origional point. What I was trying to focus on originally is the idea that inspite of all the "prep" work that goes into gathering the info about a long distance away "for sale" coach, for example...many photos, emails, phone calls, etc. All this can be to no avail.....when you arrive on site to "see" that you have been deceived!! This Reseller has advertised 28 items on the Forums. Had 4 feedback statements....all positive!

He now has a new one.....negative. Bill
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Old 06-02-2006, 08:34 AM   #21
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And, I guess Bill that my point is that you didn't plop your money down, you weren't taken, and that the trailer after your arrival, wasn't in the price-to-condition ratio you were expecting. Again, all you can get from photos and chat with the current owner, or even with a Forums member inspection is a general idea of the condition. As you have found, the specifics you have to determine yourself. And, you have to ask yourself before you leave... "will I be upset if I travel a distance to look at this trailer and it's not in the condition I believe it to be in?" If so, perhaps the trip shouldn't be undertaken. You really have to go on these trips anticipating that you won't be coming home with a trailer, and if you do, so much the better! After all, there will always be another trailer come up for sale that's closer to you. There are a lot of Airstreams out there, and they all come up for resale eventually.

Roger
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Old 06-02-2006, 09:06 AM   #22
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Interesting thread.... the moral is, be careful when buying used, and you can wind up with a great deal. We bought our 2002 22' CCD as a used AS when it was 2 years old. We found it advertised on the Airstream site, exchanged emails with the seller, he sent pictures, we talked with him on the phone, and only THEN decided to travel 275 miles each way to INSPECT the trailer. It checked out as advertised, but even then we researched the title (it was registered out of state), researched how to safely exchange the $$$$, and only then made an offer. In the end, we wound up buying a 2 year old AS in excellent condition for less than 1/2 the current price for a 2006 trailer. Was it worth two 550 mile round trips? You bet! There are good deals to be found out there if you are willing to put in the work. Would we have been disappointed if we had made the inspection trip and found the AS unsuitable? Yes, but still time well spent in the long run.
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Old 06-02-2006, 10:52 AM   #23
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Bill, I see where you're coming from. I've had my AS for 4 years now, and it took 6mths to find it. In that time I've heard countless horror stories of people who travelled a long way to check out a trailer or MoHo they had located online, only to find out it was grossly misrepresented, and drove (or flew) home empty handed.

Like I said, I don't get why the sellers waste people's time like that. They know you're going to see the problems when you get there. It is dispicable of them to waste your time like that! But luckily I still think the good sellers outweigh the bad.

I had one of the best sellers I could, an older couple, in the AS club, who used the trailer regularly and hadn't even cleaned it out from the last trip when I went to look at it. They are the nicest folks in the world, and I still see them at club events, but that trailer still ended up needing quite a few repairs which he didn't know about, which I was able to stretch out over a couple years. Buying used can always have it's surprises.
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Old 06-02-2006, 02:12 PM   #24
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the Florida guys are resellers who a strictly into making a buck where it can be made. They had a deal to buy my AS and I checked them out to see if they paid other sellers they had approached, and they had, at least the one I talked to was ok .them.
So, like many car dealers, seems they shine em up a bit, and try to turn them as fast as they can. They may sell a few dogs and a few fine pieces, but it remains up to the buyer to determine which they will be getting.
I looked at a locally advertised trailer that sounded decent from the ad, and it in reality was in horrible shape. It could have been a bath for me had I committed without actually "kicking the tires" in person. So as stated in some above posts...that the "buyer beware" is and should always be in effect.
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Old 06-02-2006, 02:35 PM   #25
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If I saw an ad in the classified, and the "member" had been a member for 18 months without posting anything, I would be suspicious.

If they are in the business, they should have something useful to contribute.
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Old 06-02-2006, 03:15 PM   #26
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Bill,
Why don't you tell us all what your looking for, exactly, and maybe everyone could keep an eye out for you and help you find a good lead for a good price!

Rather than complaining about the percentage of misleading sales people, lets get you into a trailer you love that works for you.
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Old 06-02-2006, 06:11 PM   #27
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My ideal AS find

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killo1
Bill,
Why don't you tell us all what your looking for, exactly, and maybe everyone could keep an eye out for you and help you find a good lead for a good price!

Rather than complaining about the percentage of misleading sales people, lets get you into a trailer you love that works for you.
Okay, good idea.....here tis: a 29-32ft, 1970's - early 1980's, center bath, light wood, everything works, including Stove, AC, Fridge (on AC or Gas), Water Pump, Tongue Jack. Axles are good, no rear-end separation, no exterior damage (minor blimishes accepted), no water leaks, these are musts! Prefer good batteries, good DC Converter, good tires, recent new brakes, recent wheel bearings repack/replace, current propane tanks, regulator and valves. All this for $10,000 or less! Hard to find, still looking. Bill
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Old 06-02-2006, 06:21 PM   #28
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Your Ideal Airstream is Everyone's...

Bill,
I fear you will be disappointed more often than not. What you describe is a 30 year Airstream to which someone else has already:

Replaced the axles
Replaced the Air Conditioner
Replaced the refrigerator
Installed new tires
Installed new batteries
Replaced the propane tanks or installed OPDs on the old ones

Why would they sell it to you for $10,000? Hmmm?
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